daniel1 32 Report post Posted April 20, 2009 (edited) With the Sharkies down 2-0 to the Ducks it bears considering that Jumbo Joe has not been able to neither produce on the scoreboard nor rally his team to get the Sharks into this series. When Boston traded Joe, who was only 2 seasons removed from a 101 point campaign to the Sharks for Sturm, Primeau, and Stuart it was the general consensus around the league that the B's got fleeced into giving up a superstar and not getting much in the way of return. Perhaps Boston had some insight into Joe's playoff performance which made them more willing to part with him. Joe will never be accused of being lightning quick or blazing fast but he always seemed to make up for that with great size, exceptional puck protection, and deft passing... in the regular season. That might be the most crucial element to evaluating Joe's true worth to his team - regular season vs. playoffs. Regular season, 836 games played, 842 points - over a point per game pace. Playoffs, 72 games played, 49 points - .68 pts/game While their is certainly a drop-off between his regular season and playoff pt/game ratio it's also worth mentioning that among those 49 playoff points, only 11 of them have been goals. In comparison, Hank has played only 64 playoff games and has still managed to score 29 goals, nearly 3 times Joe's production in 8 less games. There are times when your team is down and even if you're the Gretzky of passing on your team - you need to step up and put the biscuit in the basket. Obviously this is not Joe's forte. Why? In the playoffs the intensity and speed of the games picks up and there's less time for slower guys like Joe to make plays. Joe's slow foot speed also hinders him in the playoffs as he's beat to the puck a lot more and his size works against him. In the game tonight (game 2) Anaheim's quicker forwards and D consistently beat Joe to the puck or were able to strip him of it as he delayed while looking to make a play. Did the Bruins make the right choice in trading him away? If the Sharks lose out to the Ducks in the first round and Joe continues to struggle then the Thornton trade will look less like a fleece job by the Sharks and more like astute player evaluation by the Bruins. Edited April 20, 2009 by daniel1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheSupafly 50 Report post Posted April 20, 2009 With the Sharkies down 2-0 to the Ducks it bears considering that Jumbo Joe has not been able to neither produce on the scoreboard nor rally his team to get the Sharks into this series. When Boston traded Joe, who was only 2 seasons removed from a 101 point campaign to the Sharks for Sturm, Primeau, and Stuart it was the general consensus around the league that the B's got fleeced into giving up a superstar and not getting much in the way of return. Perhaps Boston had some insight into Joe's playoff performance which made them more willing to part with him. Joe will never be accused of being lightning quick or blazing fast but he always seemed to make up for that with great size, exceptional puck protection, and deft passing... in the regular season. That might be the most crucial element to evaluating Joe's true worth to his team - regular season vs. playoffs. Regular season, 757 games played, 756 points - for all intensive purposes, a pt/game pace. Playoffs, 72 games played, 49 points - .68 pt/game While their is certainly a drop-off between his regular season and playoff pt/game ratio it's also worth mentioning that among those 49 playoff points, only 11 of them have been goals. In comparison, Hank has played only 64 playoff games and has still managed to score 29 goals, nearly 3 times Joe's production in 8 less games. There are times when your team is down and even if you're the Gretzky of passing on your team - you need to step up and put the biscuit in the basket. Obviously this is not Joe's forte. Why? In the playoffs the intensity and speed of the games picks up and there's less time for slower guys like Joe to make plays. Joe's slow foot speed also hinders him in the playoffs as he's beat to the puck a lot more and his size works against him. In the game tonight (game 2) Anaheim's quicker forwards and D consistently beat Joe to the puck or were able to strip him of it as he delayed while looking to make a play. Did the Bruins make the right choice in trading him away? If the Sharks lose out to the Ducks in the first round and Joe continues to struggle then the Thornton trade will look less like a fleece job by the Sharks and more like astute player evaluation by the Bruins. This is an excellent post...and I wish I could bring up some things to refute it, but I'm beginning to agree. My brain wants to agree with you but my heart currently wont let me. I pray that he'll awaken from this 8 year coma tuesday... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianJacketsFan 0 Report post Posted April 20, 2009 No matter how bad Thorton is in the playoffs I'd still take his as my #1 center in Columbus. But honestly I don't get how a player like Thorton can't produce in the playoffs. Sure he doesn't have amazing speed but as long as he's used in the right situations and get's the right matchups he should be able to use his big body and control the puck. Plus he feeds the best sauce in the league for a big man, he has a strong supporting cast so that's not the problem. Maybe he's jsut one of those players who lacks heart for the game, now that he's made all his money he doesn't care about winning. It's probably not like that but you never know, not everyone can have the heart of Ovechkin (and players like him) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daniel1 32 Report post Posted April 20, 2009 No matter how bad Thorton is in the playoffs I'd still take his as my #1 center in Columbus. But honestly I don't get how a player like Thorton can't produce in the playoffs. Sure he doesn't have amazing speed but as long as he's used in the right situations and get's the right matchups he should be able to use his big body and control the puck. Plus he feeds the best sauce in the league for a big man, he has a strong supporting cast so that's not the problem. Maybe he's jsut one of those players who lacks heart for the game, now that he's made all his money he doesn't care about winning. It's probably not like that but you never know, not everyone can have the heart of Ovechkin Zetterberg (and players like him) I agree, and I fixed your comparison for you too... this is a Wings board after all! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
j.hoop 64 Report post Posted April 20, 2009 its very strange to see SJ struggle like this after their great regular season campaign (not that i mind), but i bet its a strange atmosphere in the locker room, very quiet and gloomy. if they dont make it past the first round you gotta wonder what will happen in the offseason. i think mcclellan handled them great, i just keep thinking (and im sure alot of their fans are too) "whats happening?" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shoreline Report post Posted April 20, 2009 The Bruins did not rid of Thornton because they somehow knew much of his present or future plight in the playoffs at the time. In fact, the Bruins traded away, at the time, the face of their organization because he wanted more money than they wanted to pay. At that time, the Bruins were noted for being cheapskates. The Sharks absolutely got the best of that deal, and they need to work with Joe to put his tremendous skill to use in the playoffs, as obviously his career with the Sharks might be in jeopardy if he keeps going with this invisible man act in the postseason. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheSupafly 50 Report post Posted April 20, 2009 i just keep thinking (and im sure alot of their fans are too) "whats happening?" I assure you that my thoughts are not nearly as "PG". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Mule 0 Report post Posted April 20, 2009 Sharks' and Jackets' fans in one thread? Shame on all of us. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianJacketsFan 0 Report post Posted April 20, 2009 They're invading at least we aren't idiot fans, we just came here to talk hockey Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
j.hoop 64 Report post Posted April 20, 2009 at least we aren't idiot fans, we just came here to talk hockey most of us know that, our only request is respect, which you and supershark have shown Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cern 0 Report post Posted April 20, 2009 Overall SJ's season wasn't as great as it might initially look. Including OT losses they went something like 17-19 in their last 36. They surged at the start of the season but if they played all 82 games like how they played the last half of the season they wouldn't be anywhere close to the 1st seed. Kinda glad they did though, we dodged a huge bullet drawing Columbus in the first round. Anaheim makes me wary. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MotorCityMadness 388 Report post Posted April 20, 2009 If Im the Sharks coach I tell Thornton to shoot the puck every chance he gets...too many times he looks for the pass and with the intensity upped in the playoffs, players focus much more on positioning and knowing where guys are on the ice Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest mindfly Report post Posted April 20, 2009 (edited) Thornton has no heart, he is the definition of a play-off choker =P Edited April 20, 2009 by mindfly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10 Minute Misconduct 104 Report post Posted April 20, 2009 "No show Joe" "Tin man Joe" "Regular season Joe" etc. etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ifonlyicouldskate 11 Report post Posted April 20, 2009 Great Post In the regular season, there is no pressure on Thorton. Playoffs? Now that's a different story. It seems like the media puts all this pressure on Joe to carry his team on his back. Hockey is a team game last time I checked. Perhaps Joe can't handle the pressure. Maybe Boston figured this out, and thats why they traded him? But right now I have to give credit to the Ducks, who went into the opposing teams tank and took two. Didn't the Sharks have the best home record in the NHL? From what I have seen of these games, the Ducks look to be quicker team. The Sharks just looked flat. I can't blame Joe for this as he is just one man on a 23 man roster. If we make it pass the BJ's (knock on wood), I say bring them on! I'm not scared of any team. But I have to root for any team that is playing against Mr cheapshots team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Namingway 146 Report post Posted April 20, 2009 Joe Thornton is lazy and he sucks sorry this thread was missing that. I know he's a great player but some players don't do as well in the playoffs (look at pasha in the past) but who knows, he may rise in the near future. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barrie 900 Report post Posted April 20, 2009 One of the comments I heard about Joe on a pre post season show, is that he needs to shoot and go to the net more to be successful in the playoffs. He needs to use his size as an advantage and throw his weight around more. Compare that to what we've seen the last few years with Datsyuk and Zetterberg in the playoffs. They don't seem to be afraid to hit, get hit, and get in the middle of scrums after the whistle. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MidMichSteve 1,115 Report post Posted April 20, 2009 (edited) Anaheim's quicker forwards and D consistently beat Joe to the puck or were able to strip him of it as he delayed while looking to make a play. Very good post. I think you hit it right on the head. Is there any other team from the west that could shut down Joe like the Anaheim defence has? It has looked to me that, but for a few bad breaks and posts, the Sharks could have won both games even with Joe's lack of production. I guess we'll see what SJ is made of in the next 2 games. Could be a complete turnaround. Or a sweep. Edited April 20, 2009 by MidMichSteve Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingslionstigers 12 Report post Posted April 20, 2009 (edited) It's not just Thorton aint nobody on that team is producing. The team is getting out worked, beat to the puck, loosing battles. There main problem is when they actually get the puck. They make bad decisions and turn the puck over. Hard for a guy like Thornton to get on the board as much as you guys think he should be when his entire team isn't playing worth a f***. If you guys watch one of the Sharks games. Pay attention to how often they force a play when they have plenty of time and space and turn the puck over for no reason at all. Why?? I have no idea. Another thing, when they are down 3-2 with 5 minutes left. When your team is on the change and you notice that you have nobody rushing the zone why do you dump the puck in deep and give it to the Ducks?? He had all day nobody was pressuring him and he decides to send it deep. Guess what a Shark player never made it any further than 8ft into the Ducks zone on that play. It was frustrating watching that team play. 3 worst teams in the playoffs right now. Sharks, Rangers, Caps. These 3 teams aren't going far. Edited April 20, 2009 by wingslionstigers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stactum 4 Report post Posted April 20, 2009 I would also throw Marleau in the mix of non-performers. Look at this guy, every playoffs he disappears. He had a decent season this year, had 38 goals 71 pts but when it comes to play your ass off in the playoffs he's not there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jones31 0 Report post Posted April 20, 2009 Unless he's playing Nashville, he owns them outright. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ToxicGhoul 0 Report post Posted April 20, 2009 I assure you that my thoughts are not nearly as "PG". Honestly, you guys just need to connect on the PP. All the Sharks players need to step up, not just Joe (although he's obviously a big part of the problem). Right now the most telling stat is that the Sharks are 0-12 on the PP. Having a strong PP is pretty much the only way to beat a team like the Ducks so the Sharks need to find their power play quick! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
donfishmaster 62 Report post Posted April 20, 2009 This is an excellent post...and I wish I could bring up some things to refute it, but I'm beginning to agree. My brain wants to agree with you but my heart currently wont let me. I pray that he'll awaken from this 8 year coma tuesday... It's NOT Joe's fault. Worse than touching the President's Cup, worse even than touching the Octopus, the Sharks embraced the vile pile of infected smegma known as Claude LePuke. This is God's holy vengeance for allowing his fetid continence back on NHL ice. Amen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FinWing 26 Report post Posted April 20, 2009 It's not just Thorton aint nobody on that team is producing. The team is getting out worked, beat to the puck, loosing battles. There main problem is when they actually get the puck. They make bad decisions and turn the puck over. Hard for a guy like Thornton to get on the board as much as you guys think he should be when his entire team isn't playing worth a f***. If you guys watch one of the Sharks games. Pay attention to how often they force a play when they have plenty of time and space and turn the puck over for no reason at all. Why?? I have no idea. Another thing, when they are down 3-2 with 5 minutes left. When your team is on the change and you notice that you have nobody rushing the zone why do you dump the puck in deep and give it to the Ducks?? He had all day nobody was pressuring him and he decides to send it deep. Guess what a Shark player never made it any further than 8ft into the Ducks zone on that play. It was frustrating watching that team play. 3 worst teams in the playoffs right now. Sharks, Rangers, Caps. These 3 teams aren't going far. Well, at least one will get past the 1st round. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RockyMountainWingGal 108 Report post Posted April 20, 2009 Sharks' and Jackets' fans in one thread? Shame on all of us. We'll convert them - bring them over from the dark side....see what winning feels like. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites