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GMRwings1983

What is the Status of Draper and Lilja

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A vein has been bleeding in his frickin head for more then 2 and half months, I'd say it's a fair assesment for Doggy to say. Lilja probably wont be near the ice for the rest of the year, nor should he.

at the very least Lilja will lace them up one more time this season. For the Cup clenching game when he is dressed and out there celebrating with the team! :hehe:

on a side note, I hope Chelios gets a start in the finals so he can have his name on one more Cup! Although the Wings have been pretty good about lobbying the league to add names to the Cup.

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Without a source of citation it is an opinion, not a fact. Show me where any doctor or medical personnel says he may never play again.

Until he plays again, isn't a fact that he may never play again? So, technically doggy is right. Unless, of course, you can prove that he definitely WILL play again. :)

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I'd rather not give Lilja the chance to repeat his last Anaheim playoff performance.

and datsyuk was much better? He took a late penalty that costed red wings big time. The guy was a playoff choker back then.

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I guarantee you if we play the Ducks Leino is going to be playing. We'll need our fourth line to actually have talent in order to stem off Anaheim matching their top line against it.

Of course, on the bright side, all four of our lines could beat their bottom three. And our top 2, and maybe the third line, could handle their top line.

It'll be a tough series.

Not a chance man. Their top line is one of the best in the league right now. Getzlaughs and Ryan are lethal right now.

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and datsyuk was much better? He took a late penalty that costed red wings big time. The guy was a playoff choker back then.

Datsyuk had 16 points in 18 games that year and Detroit wouldn't have made it past San Jose without him. In fact, that was the year that people stopped calling Datsyuk a playoff choker.

Lilja was terrible in those playoffs and the Selanne goal is a highlight of that. He did absolutely nothing to counter the big forwards Anaheim threw at us and was a liability almost every time he stepped on the ice because Anaheim's speed was much more threatening than their size.

Lilja takes more criticism than he deserves but I still can't believe people actually want to put him into the line-up over what we currently have. Lebda's not Bobby Orr but he certainly brings more to the table than a Derian Hatcher-esque Swede.

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Lilja takes more criticism than he deserves but I still can't believe people actually want to put him into the line-up over what we currently have. Lebda's not Bobby Orr but he certainly brings more to the table than a Derian Hatcher-esque Swede.

Like what, exactly? Lilja's bigger, hits more, fights more, blocks way more shots. Defensively he's a tremendous upgrade. Lebda's faster, that's about it, but he's not exactly blazing. The only reason to ever have Lebda in the lineup over Lilja is Lebda is a touch better offensively - but Lebda is the only defenseman we have that has no points in these playoffs. Getting Lilja back in place of Lebda would be a huge, huge upgrade. Especially if he's "Derian Hatcher-esque", as Hatcher was a pretty damn solid defenseman in his day.

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and datsyuk was much better? He took a late penalty that costed red wings big time. The guy was a playoff choker back then.

that was a total makeup call

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Like what, exactly? Lilja's bigger, hits more, fights more, blocks way more shots. Defensively he's a tremendous upgrade. Lebda's faster, that's about it, but he's not exactly blazing. The only reason to ever have Lebda in the lineup over Lilja is Lebda is a touch better offensively - but Lebda is the only defenseman we have that has no points in these playoffs. Getting Lilja back in place of Lebda would be a huge, huge upgrade. Especially if he's "Derian Hatcher-esque", as Hatcher was a pretty damn solid defenseman in his day.

"Huge, huge upgrade?" You're being ironic and not obtuse, right? "Hatcher was a pretty damn solid defenseman in his day?" Back in 1999 maybe, but it's pretty clear I'm talking about Hatcher's more recent play, particularly with Detroit and Philadelphia.

Hatcher was terrible when he played here and Lilja is of the same breed. They are big, slow, dumb players who are consistently caught out of position; they are players who receive adoration just because of their size and regardless of their actual skill level.

Lilja was victimized in the Anaheim series because he's slow, both physically and mentally. Lilja's a shot blocking machine, sure, but he's a giveaway machine who takes more stupid penalties, as well.

Lebda's skillset is mediocre at best but at least he can skate with Anaheim's forwards. Furthermore, Lebda is a much better partner for Ericsson or Stuart, where Lilja's skills would be redundant and his negative qualities would be highlighted.

Lebda is a smarter, faster player and that is what this team needs against Vancouver, Anaheim, or any other opponent out there.

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Without a source of citation it is an opinion, not a fact. Show me where any doctor or medical personnel says he may never play again.

Doggy is correct, even though he is not a medical doctor or a health care provider (not medical personnel), there are members of this site who are, including myself.

For example, take a Seizure. If you have a severe one, your drivers license is taken away, you are monitored for 6 months, and etc. Standard precautions are to avoid over exertion, any real physical activity, and so forth. Lilja's situation is not FULLY known by all and if it is, it can not be talked about due to privacy laws.

I do not think he is coming back to play this year.

Edited by Rivalred

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"Huge, huge upgrade?" You're being ironic and not obtuse, right? "Hatcher was a pretty damn solid defenseman in his day?" Back in 1999 maybe, but it's pretty clear I'm talking about Hatcher's more recent play, particularly with Detroit and Philadelphia.

Hatcher was terrible when he played here and Lilja is of the same breed. They are big, slow, dumb players who are consistently caught out of position; they are players who receive adoration just because of their size and regardless of their actual skill level.

Lilja was victimized in the Anaheim series because he's slow, both physically and mentally. Lilja's a shot blocking machine, sure, but he's a giveaway machine who takes more stupid penalties, as well.

Lebda's skillset is mediocre at best but at least he can skate with Anaheim's forwards. Furthermore, Lebda is a much better partner for Ericsson or Stuart, where Lilja's skills would be redundant and his negative qualities would be highlighted.

Lebda is a smarter, faster player and that is what this team needs against Vancouver, Anaheim, or any other opponent out there.

Hatcher was injured when he played here and missed everything from October to March and when he did come back, his conditioning wasn't there and nobody could have expected it to be.

Lebda's decision making isn't really all that either. Lilja's the superior penalty-killer - he and Lids are the team's top two PKers. Lebda's not a PKer at all. And Lilja's skills aren't redundant with Ericsson's - Ericsson is much more offensive-minded than Lilja is. Ericsson can move the puck. They'd be a great complement actually, Lilja brings some skills like shot-blocking that Ericsson doesn't, while Lebda does basically nothing that Ericsson can't do just as well, if not better.

Finally, I'd sure like to hear what stupid penalties Lilja takes that Lebda doesn't. Lebda had 23 minors this year - Lilja, 18. Lilja only has more PIM because he has fighting majors - which is a plus, not a minus. Lebda has none.

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Hatcher was injured when he played here and missed everything from October to March and when he did come back, his conditioning wasn't there and nobody could have expected it to be.

Finally, I'd sure like to hear what stupid penalties Lilja takes that Lebda doesn't. Lebda had 23 minors this year - Lilja, 18. Lilja only has more PIM because he has fighting majors - which is a plus, not a minus. Lebda has none.

Hatcher's decline began 2-3 years before he even came to Detroit and he looked even worse in Philadelphia. Regardless, calling Lilja "Hatcher-esque" was an insult and not a compliment.

Lilja took 16 PIM in 12 games last playoffs; Lebda took 6 PIM in 19 games. I'm going to go ahead and say that postseason to postseason comparison is a bit more apt than regular season where the games are completely different.

Sure, Lilja is the better penalty killer because he blocks shots (he's still awful at stopping passes that come his way, but hey), but he's also brutal at even strength. Guess where Anaheim is going to do their damage?

By the way, fighting and/or the ability to fight well is practically irrelevant. The Wings had one fight last playoffs. It was pointless; most fights are, in fact, pointless.

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Hatcher was injured when he played here and missed everything from October to March and when he did come back, his conditioning wasn't there and nobody could have expected it to be.

Lebda's decision making isn't really all that either. Lilja's the superior penalty-killer - he and Lids are the team's top two PKers. Lebda's not a PKer at all. And Lilja's skills aren't redundant with Ericsson's - Ericsson is much more offensive-minded than Lilja is. Ericsson can move the puck. They'd be a great complement actually, Lilja brings some skills like shot-blocking that Ericsson doesn't, while Lebda does basically nothing that Ericsson can't do just as well, if not better.

Finally, I'd sure like to hear what stupid penalties Lilja takes that Lebda doesn't. Lebda had 23 minors this year - Lilja, 18. Lilja only has more PIM because he has fighting majors - which is a plus, not a minus. Lebda has none.

:clap:

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Datsyuk had 16 points in 18 games that year and Detroit wouldn't have made it past San Jose without him. In fact, that was the year that people stopped calling Datsyuk a playoff choker.

Lilja was terrible in those playoffs and the Selanne goal is a highlight of that. He did absolutely nothing to counter the big forwards Anaheim threw at us and was a liability almost every time he stepped on the ice because Anaheim's speed was much more threatening than their size.

Lilja takes more criticism than he deserves but I still can't believe people actually want to put him into the line-up over what we currently have. Lebda's not Bobby Orr but he certainly brings more to the table than a Derian Hatcher-esque Swede.

"Huge, huge upgrade?" You're being ironic and not obtuse, right? "Hatcher was a pretty damn solid defenseman in his day?" Back in 1999 maybe, but it's pretty clear I'm talking about Hatcher's more recent play, particularly with Detroit and Philadelphia.

Hatcher was terrible when he played here and Lilja is of the same breed. They are big, slow, dumb players who are consistently caught out of position; they are players who receive adoration just because of their size and regardless of their actual skill level.

Lilja was victimized in the Anaheim series because he's slow, both physically and mentally. Lilja's a shot blocking machine, sure, but he's a giveaway machine who takes more stupid penalties, as well.

Lebda's skillset is mediocre at best but at least he can skate with Anaheim's forwards. Furthermore, Lebda is a much better partner for Ericsson or Stuart, where Lilja's skills would be redundant and his negative qualities would be highlighted.

Lebda is a smarter, faster player and that is what this team needs against Vancouver, Anaheim, or any other opponent out there.

Hatcher's decline began 2-3 years before he even came to Detroit and he looked even worse in Philadelphia. Regardless, calling Lilja "Hatcher-esque" was an insult and not a compliment.

Lilja took 16 PIM in 12 games last playoffs; Lebda took 6 PIM in 19 games. I'm going to go ahead and say that postseason to postseason comparison is a bit more apt than regular season where the games are completely different.

Sure, Lilja is the better penalty killer because he blocks shots (he's still awful at stopping passes that come his way, but hey), but he's also brutal at even strength. Guess where Anaheim is going to do their damage?

By the way, fighting and/or the ability to fight well is practically irrelevant. The Wings had one fight last playoffs. It was pointless; most fights are, in fact, pointless.

Hey, Brett Lebda, is that you?

Seriously, I've never heard anyone kiss Lebda's ass the way it was just kissed in all those posts. Lilja clearly outplayed Lebda for the last couple of seasons, and yet who do you give the love to? Lebda.

Lebda doesn't take many penalties because he plays like a wuss. Lilja actually stands up for himself and his teammates and plays some semblance of physical hockey. Who cares how fast a guy skates if that doesn't amount to anything.

Lebda has actually looked O.K. in the playoffs so far, but Lilja has been far better in the last few seasons for this to even be a comparison anymore.

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Yeah, because me admitting Lebda is mediocre at best sure is equivalent to kissing his ass. Quite ironic coming from a bunch of people who are furiously arguing the merits of a guy who has consistently had to battle for the 6th spot on our defense. Lilja has been the focal point of the defensive breakdowns in some of our most critical losses in the last 3 playoffs. Throwing hits and being involved in useless fights doesn't change that fact, neither does being 6'3, 200+ lbs.

I guess I don't expect much from a forum consisting of a majority of people who wouldn't take Crosby on the team because he's a "*****" and still pine for Darren McCarty.

"Who cares how fast a guy skates if that doesn't amount to anything."

also, this is hilariously naive. Lilja couldn't keep up with anyone in that Anaheim series and it showed. Anaheim has a faster team this year; Lilja would be brutalized 5 on 5.

Edited by nkuehnl

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Yeah, because me admitting Lebda is mediocre at best sure is equivalent to kissing his ass. Quite ironic coming from a bunch of people who are furiously arguing the merits of a guy who has consistently had to battle for the 6th spot on our defense. Lilja has been the focal point of the defensive breakdowns in some of our most critical losses in the last 3 playoffs. Throwing hits and being involved in useless fights doesn't change that fact, neither does being 6'3, 200+ lbs.

I guess I don't expect much from a forum consisting of a majority of people who wouldn't take Crosby on the team because he's a "*****" and still pine for Darren McCarty.

"Who cares how fast a guy skates if that doesn't amount to anything."

also, this is hilariously naive. Lilja couldn't keep up with anyone in that Anaheim series and it showed. Anaheim has a faster team this year; Lilja would be brutalized 5 on 5.

Who cares what Lilja did 2 years ago in the playoffs? He's greatly improved his play in the last few seasons.

Lebda is the one who's had to consistently battle for a roster spot this season. He's lucky Lilja is hurt or else he wouldn't even be in the lineup. People have been praising Lilja's play all season.

It sounds like you've been in a coma for the last few years, which started the evening of that game 5 loss against the Ducks. Welcome back to consciousness. A lot has changed since then.

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Who cares what Lilja did 2 years ago in the playoffs? He's greatly improved his play in the last few seasons.

Lebda is the one who's had to consistently battle for a roster spot this season. He's lucky Lilja is hurt or else he wouldn't even be in the lineup. People have been praising Lilja's play all season.

It sounds like you've been in a coma for the last few years, which started the evening of that game 5 loss against the Ducks. Welcome back to consciousness. A lot has changed since then.

Lebda was also more useful than Lilja last year, save for when Stuart was out. As I've pointed out, Lilja took some terrible penalties last year as well. The dude is a 6th defenseman at best, just like Lebda, but Lebda is at least useful in conjunction with the rest of the roster.

Here, let me come out of my coma and into your "consciousness."

SIX FOOT THREE AND HE LOSES FIGHTS? GIVE THAT MAN MORE ICE TIME.

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Lebda was also more useful than Lilja last year, save for when Stuart was out. As I've pointed out, Lilja took some terrible penalties last year as well. The dude is a 6th defenseman at best, just like Lebda, but Lebda is at least useful in conjunction with the rest of the roster.

Here, let me come out of my coma and into your "consciousness."

SIX FOOT THREE AND HE LOSES FIGHTS? GIVE THAT MAN MORE ICE TIME.

:lol:

Sharp, Begin, Boll, Phaneuf, Souray, Neil, etc.

He owned all those fools and had an unfortunate draw in his last fight, where he slipped.

Way to analyze him. :thumbdown: I still don't know how you can say Lebda fits in better with this team. Yeah he skates fast, but his skill level isn't very good, which is something our other speedsters have plenty of. Lilja gives this team better balance with toughness, size and grit. That's what we need more of, not another undersized non-physical defenseman.

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We have Stuart, Kronwall and Big Rig. Lebda's speed is a nice complement.

But if it doesn't translate to scoring, why does it matter? Lilja was one of the (if not) the team leader in hits up until his injury, thus his size did actually translate to something.

I just don't understand how anyone can still be fascinated with Lebda merely because of his speed. I thought people got over him a long time ago, when it showed that he had no real offensive upside with that speed everyone loves. He's the defensive version of Rico Fata.

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