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will wings retire fedorov's 91?


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#181 Reds4Life

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 03:59 PM

haha another gold from GordieSidAndTed laugh.gif
You know, I am not going to lose any sleep if Fedorov number is not going to be retired, but you really overrate the off-the-ice stuff. Fedorov likes money, like all people do, he wanted to get paid, so what. If he wanted to be the man on another team..who cares...all this does not matter, you get your number retired for what you have done on the ice and he did it all. He was an integral, perhpas even THE, part of the team that brought 3 Cups to Detroit. Fedorov's behaviour is not going to be an issue. Fedorov was better overall than Yzerman during those 3 runs.

#182 egroen

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 04:03 PM

QUOTE (NomadFromKazoo @ April 30, 2009 - 04:24PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Um...knowledge of history, poor. Federov didn't just "sign an offer sheet." He went to the media and told the Wings not to match it. And then the second time while saying our offer was an insult to his manhood, he left for LESS money. I guess you had to skew (i.e., ignore) the facts since history didn't support your statement. No one should be retired a Wing who didn't want to be here. If he changes that in the future I'm open to changing my view.

I'm not open to ignoring history. We have such a long line of people who wanted to be here. I don't blame Shanny for leaving, he thought at that point we didn't want him and since Kenny did nothing to change that perception it's hard to argue he was wrong. But Federov was 2/2 for wanting to leave when he had the chance. It makes no sense to hunt him down and say, please Sergi, please can we reward you for not wanting to play here?

Sure, my knowledge of hockey history is poor (definitely on the low end of posters on this site). Way to open up a post!

Fedorov wanted to play enough in Detroit that he illegally defected from the Soviet Union and left his family and friends behind to come to a completely foreign country. Is that perhaps a "plus" in his column? His playoff record alone shows how much he wanted to succeed with this team. I just do not understand how his years of exceptional play in Detroit and service to the community is outweighed by wanting to leave and take on a new role at two points in his career. Because you don't like the way he went about doing so? I'll grant he does not exactly have the grace of Shanahan, but I don't feel that lessens his accomplishments and service while he was in Detroit.

It's already been pointed out to you that you were wrong on your history with Shanahan... so gimme a break with your lecture on "ignoring/skewing" history when you can't even keep facts straight from only the past few years.

Edited by egroen, 30 April 2009 - 04:34 PM.

Red Kelly #4 and Larry Aurie #6 belong in the rafters!!!

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#183 egroen

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 04:16 PM

QUOTE (GordieSid&Ted @ April 30, 2009 - 04:05PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Egroen,

if we just look at numbers and accomplishments nobody can argue that Feds shouldn't have his number retired.

But I have a problem comparing him to somebody from 4-5 decades ago.

If we are comparing Fedorov to anybody, we are comparing him to his contemporaries, which are Steve Yzerman and Nicklas Lidstrom. Not Shanny or Osgood or Draper or Ulf Samuellson or Hasek or Chelios. Feds has no true equals other than Stevie and Nick.

IMO, Steve and Nick are 5 star and locks for jersey retirement (19 obviously done). Fedorov, for all the negative things falls just shy of those 2.

And one must keep in mind what Ted Lindsay did. If you can imagine the circumstances back then, with players being underpaid, having to work off season jobs and not having any rights whatsoever, what Lindsay did he did for all of the players he played with and all those to follow.

Fedorov seeking fair market value for his services is only superficially akin to what Lindsay was doing. Lindsay is a hero for what he did. I don't think anybody would call Fedorov a hero for wanting FMV for his services.

I just don't like the comparisons to Howe and Lindsay. Especially in regards to the on ice stuff that happened.

I didn't feel the need to throw this stuff out there b/c I feel enough negative info has been shown already but since the comparisons are being brought up Fedorov by no means has a clean slate.

Arrested for drunken driving. Initially pleaded not guilty, changed to guillty.

Suspended for 4 games for cross check to head and punching a downed Jay More.
Suspended for 2 games for hitting Jason Marshall from behind.
Suspended for 5 games for slashing Zdeno Chara in the neck.

Just keepin' it real here.

Fine points - though I still think the comparison is apt because it was Ilitch who retired Lindsay's number in 1991 and had a statue erected of Lindsay at the Joe only this past year. Both players would be retired by the same ownership (or family) using presumably the same set of standards. If I was comparing him to Larry Aurie, who was retired well over a half-century ago by a completely different owner, than I would be a lot more willing to cede the point.

I think in both Lindsay's and Fedorov's cases (Lindsay being much worse), the good outweighs the bad, and they still deserve to be honored for their service to the organization.

Edited by egroen, 30 April 2009 - 04:24 PM.

Red Kelly #4 and Larry Aurie #6 belong in the rafters!!!

"For my game, I don't need to score the goal," Konstantinov once explained. "I need someone to start thinking about me and forgetting about scoring goals."

#184 ManLuv4Clears

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 05:42 PM

QUOTE (Reds4Life @ April 30, 2009 - 04:59PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
haha another gold from GordieSidAndTed laugh.gif
You know, I am not going to lose any sleep if Fedorov number is not going to be retired, but you really overrate the off-the-ice stuff. Fedorov likes money, like all people do, he wanted to get paid, so what. If he wanted to be the man on another team..who cares...all this does not matter, you get your number retired for what you have done on the ice and he did it all. He was an integral, perhpas even THE, part of the team that brought 3 Cups to Detroit. Fedorov's behaviour is not going to be an issue. Fedorov was better overall than Yzerman during those 3 runs.

Is this a serious post?

#185 vangvace

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 07:03 PM

I just noticed that with the exception of Sawchuk, all of the other players have gone own to work for or near the Wings org after retirement. Interesting coincidence if nothing else. Thoughts?
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#186 egroen

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 07:39 PM

QUOTE (vangvace @ April 30, 2009 - 08:03PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I just noticed that with the exception of Sawchuk, all of the other players have gone own to work for or near the Wings org after retirement. Interesting coincidence if nothing else. Thoughts?

I bet that might have something to do with it - I'm not sure if Howe ever worked directly for the Red Wings following his retirement, but he was still certainly considered "part of the ogranization". It might have something to do with Kelly not having his number retired, as he did not have much to do with the Red Wings following his retirement... although coaching in the NHL and serving the canadian parliament are not exactly what I would consider black marks.
Red Kelly #4 and Larry Aurie #6 belong in the rafters!!!

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#187 Kwame_Kilpatrick

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 07:42 PM

saying they all have worked in the front office is unfair especially to fedorov. all of our retired players have been canadians, and fedorov will probably want to retire anyway back to russia. he was born in a poor soviet country so can u blame him for wanting money? cmon
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#188 norrisnick

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 08:10 PM

QUOTE (Kwame_Kilpatrick @ April 30, 2009 - 07:42PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
saying they all have worked in the front office is unfair especially to fedorov. all of our retired players have been canadians, and fedorov will probably want to retire anyway back to russia. he was born in a poor soviet country so can u blame him for wanting money? cmon

Sergei is never going back to Russia apart from visits. He has a home in the Detroit area and I think California as well.

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#189 Kwame_Kilpatrick

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 08:14 PM

still he probably will want to settle down after such a frenzied career, if u look at the other legends they were not making a lot of money in their day so they needed a job after they got old u know what i mean. fedorov has the record for most money made in 1 season so its not a problem for him
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#190 GordieSid&Ted

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 09:17 PM

QUOTE (Reds4Life @ April 30, 2009 - 04:59PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
haha another gold from GordieSidAndTed laugh.gif
You know, I am not going to lose any sleep if Fedorov number is not going to be retired, but you really overrate the off-the-ice stuff. Fedorov likes money, like all people do, he wanted to get paid, so what. If he wanted to be the man on another team..who cares...all this does not matter, you get your number retired for what you have done on the ice and he did it all. He was an integral, perhpas even THE, part of the team that brought 3 Cups to Detroit. Fedorov's behaviour is not going to be an issue. Fedorov was better overall than Yzerman during those 3 runs.



You don't really get it do you? Kinda having one of those "off" days are you? Did you go drinking last night and you're still a bit hungover? Seriously.

I already said I DO NOT CARE NOR DO I HOLD IT AGAINST HIM for wanting more money or wanting to be "the man" or whatever. I don't care what anybody wants to do when they feel it is in THEIR BEST INTEREST!!! I only care about that stuff when we start talking about having an organization retire your number.

Hey Fedorov, you want your fecking number retired by the Wings? okay, lemme give you a list of DO NOTS

1. Do not sign contract offer with Carolina
2. Do not make public statement of "I will never play for Detroit again"
3. Do not show up only when you feel like it. Give it all all the time.
4. Do not let your personal affairs get in the way of signing a ridiculously overpriced contract.....FYI-the next time somebody offers to pay you more than you are worth...SIGN!!!


You want to be the man? Awesome. You want more money? Great! You want more ice time, you want to wear the "C", you want a better climate, you want to rock out your Lambo on Rodeo? More power to you.

But its a choice. You choose that stuff, you are choosing it over having your number retired by Detroit. That's how I feel about it anyway. Nobody has to agree with me.

And as for the "off ice" stuff not mattering. To quote the great Ricky Bobby...."that's just dumb" Believe me, it all matters.
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#191 Hockey Junkie

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 09:26 PM

nope.

he's no bret hedican...or adam graves.

#192 SouthernWingsFan

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 09:37 PM

Whether you think it is legitimate or unfair with Fedorov leaving Detroit, it will probably play some role in getting his jersey "retired" or not. It'd be nice if it were just merited for on-ice contributions, but like when you are applying for a job or college, there's other stuff to consider outside of just work experience - people skills, extracurriculars, whatever.

When he left the Wings, I was still in college. I didn't know much, I didn't know much about work/businesses in terms of the work world today. Fedorov was one of my faovrite players, I was pretty bitter for a while with him leaving.

Granted about 5 years later I'm definitely not too much wiser, but at least I think I have the maturity to know now that people have their reasons to move on in life to a new job or career or whatever else. Those decisions are not easy ones to make. I'm in the middle of trying to figure out whether to stay at a job that's been good to me over the past 4 - 4 1/2 years or move on to try something else out. It's hard and something I'm not going to solve overnight and if/when my time is up in my current job and company, it's not going to be easy leaving.

If it was Fedorov's time to move on back then from Detroit, so be it. Good for him. The departure though was not smooth, it probably could have been handled better from both sides in management. His time in Detroit wasn't always smooth. As much as I can't stand how media overdramatizes stuff, generally speaking, I find it hard to believe that they'd just make up stories about Fedorov perhaps questioning his heart or loyalty or dedication or whatever just for s**ts and giggles.

All this being said, I've been well over my bitterness of Fedorov leaving because things certainly change in people's lives personally and professionally, but things definitely are not forgotten.

All these things - his dominant play on the ice, him being questioned for the not so good things, the departure from the Wings, will probably play roles in the whole jersey debate thingy. It may not be completely right/fair, but again people don't forget things, BOTH the good AND the bad.

If his jersey gets retired, great. Power to the people. I'll be happy for him. If not, I'm not going to lose sleep over it. A jersey retirement or not does not have to validate how damned good he was on the ice (nor his "drama" or "actions" or "stories" off of it). I wish nothing but the best for Fedorov at the end of his NHL career and whatever he wants to do after post-NHL play.

Off-ice actions matter in things like this.

Edited by SouthernWingsFan, 30 April 2009 - 09:38 PM.


#193 Reds4Life

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 05:17 AM

QUOTE (GordieSid&Ted @ May 1, 2009 - 04:17AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You don't really get it do you? Kinda having one of those "off" days are you? Did you go drinking last night and you're still a bit hungover? Seriously.

I already said I DO NOT CARE NOR DO I HOLD IT AGAINST HIM for wanting more money or wanting to be "the man" or whatever. I don't care what anybody wants to do when they feel it is in THEIR BEST INTEREST!!! I only care about that stuff when we start talking about having an organization retire your number.

Hey Fedorov, you want your fecking number retired by the Wings? okay, lemme give you a list of DO NOTS

1. Do not sign contract offer with Carolina
2. Do not make public statement of "I will never play for Detroit again"
3. Do not show up only when you feel like it. Give it all all the time.
4. Do not let your personal affairs get in the way of signing a ridiculously overpriced contract.....FYI-the next time somebody offers to pay you more than you are worth...SIGN!!!


You want to be the man? Awesome. You want more money? Great! You want more ice time, you want to wear the "C", you want a better climate, you want to rock out your Lambo on Rodeo? More power to you.

But its a choice. You choose that stuff, you are choosing it over having your number retired by Detroit. That's how I feel about it anyway. Nobody has to agree with me.

And as for the "off ice" stuff not mattering. To quote the great Ricky Bobby...."that's just dumb" Believe me, it all matters.


Well, history is not on your side then. It would be crime not to see Fedorov's jersey up there because he was one of the most important players on the team that finally brought Stanley Cup to Detroit. Things that happen off the ice are nothing compared to what he has done as a Red Wing, not to mention Fedorov was immature, perhaps cocky .. but all that is gone..just like the bad stuff he had done.

Edited by Reds4Life, 01 May 2009 - 05:21 AM.


#194 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 09:16 AM

They paid him 4-million dollars just for this season in Washington? Out-ray-jus.
In answer to the original question: no. There are other more deserving players who should get this honour before him.

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#195 NomadFromKazoo

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 09:59 AM

QUOTE (Heroes of Hockeytown @ April 30, 2009 - 04:33PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Holland offered Shanny a contract after the '06 season.

We offered him a far smaller contract then the market. He said publicly that he thought we wanted to go with younger players, which seems consistent with that. Kenny was silent. He pondered retirement and decided to play for the Rangers for 4 mil. So in the context of my point on Federov, what's your point exactly?

Edited by NomadFromKazoo, 01 May 2009 - 10:03 AM.

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#196 NomadFromKazoo

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 10:13 AM

QUOTE (egroen @ April 30, 2009 - 05:03PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Fedorov wanted to play enough in Detroit that he illegally defected from the Soviet Union and left his family and friends behind to come to a completely foreign country. Is that perhaps a "plus" in his column?

Yes, it is a plus, I agree. And sorry if I jumped on you a bit, I'm just sick of the people arguing we retire his number ignoring how he left and when you said just that he signed an offer sheet ignoring the rest I was annoyed.

QUOTE (egroen @ April 30, 2009 - 05:03PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
His playoff record alone shows how much he wanted to succeed with this team. I just do not understand how his years of exceptional play in Detroit and service to the community is outweighed by wanting to leave and take on a new role at two points in his career. Because you don't like the way he went about doing so? I'll grant he does not exactly have the grace of Shanahan, but I don't feel that lessens his accomplishments and service while he was in Detroit.

We are not talking HOF, which I agree Federov is. I have a lot of fond memories of him. The point is we are talking about the RED WINGS retiring his number. How can you ignore his extreme attempts WANTING to get out of here TWICE when there were exactly two opportunities to say the RED WINGS should honor him as a great member of their organization, a great member who didn't want to be here.

QUOTE (egroen @ April 30, 2009 - 05:03PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's already been pointed out to you that you were wrong on your history with Shanahan... so gimme a break with your lecture on "ignoring/skewing" history when you can't even keep facts straight from only the past few years.

Was I? How was I wrong? I agreed with you signing an offer sheet would not have rejected him. It was that he publicly demanded we not match one and left for less money the second time. He raised nothing like that in Shanahan who got little public statement from Kenny he wanted him to stay and left for like twice the money demonstrating that. He didn't contradict my point. BTW, he looks for every opportunity to throw in these bitter little barbs ever since he found out I'm not a liberal on the political boards. I am a Red Wing first on the Red Wing board. But I'm used to libs doing that, politics is first in everything sadly with liberalism. He should hate me there and not carry it to Red Wing discussions is my view, but his view is up to him.
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#197 OsGOD

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 10:15 AM

QUOTE (GordieSid&Ted @ April 30, 2009 - 04:05PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Arrested for drunken driving. Initially pleaded not guilty, changed to guillty.

....and that poor tree still doesn't have any bark on it where the car hit... poor thing sad.gif



Just one chance is all i ever wanted...just one time i'd like to win the game...from now on i'll take the chance if i can have it...just one just one

#198 egroen

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 10:38 AM

QUOTE (NomadFromKazoo @ May 1, 2009 - 11:13AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes, it is a plus, I agree. And sorry if I jumped on you a bit, I'm just sick of the people arguing we retire his number ignoring how he left and when you said just that he signed an offer sheet ignoring the rest I was annoyed.


We are not talking HOF, which I agree Federov is. I have a lot of fond memories of him. The point is we are talking about the RED WINGS retiring his number. How can you ignore his extreme attempts WANTING to get out of here TWICE when there were exactly two opportunities to say the RED WINGS should honor him as a great member of their organization, a great member who didn't want to be here.


Was I? How was I wrong? I agreed with you signing an offer sheet would not have rejected him. It was that he publicly demanded we not match one and left for less money the second time. He raised nothing like that in Shanahan who got little public statement from Kenny he wanted him to stay and left for like twice the money demonstrating that. He didn't contradict my point. BTW, he looks for every opportunity to throw in these bitter little barbs ever since he found out I'm not a liberal on the political boards. I am a Red Wing first on the Red Wing board. But I'm used to libs doing that, politics is first in everything sadly with liberalism. He should hate me there and not carry it to Red Wing discussions is my view, but his view is up to him.

Ultimately, a lot of us just react to the poor way he handled leaving differently. I know people who handle pressure with grace, and those that don't.... I try not to judge them based mainly on this. Brendan Shanahan really did the same thing as Fedorov did in '03, but he just handled it better (and most of us were secretly glad to see him leave). Face it, Shanahan has a lot of charisma -- the guy screwed his teamate's wife, later married her and he is one of the most liked players in the NHL. You want to talk about a cancer in the locker room?

If merely wanting to leave the Red Wings to take on a different role is enough to cancel out all his merits as a player during his years in Detroit (for consideration of his number in the rafters), then there will probably be no convincing you otherwise. If it has more to do with his poor choice of comments at those times, I just think that will not seem as big a deal as the years wear on. Like I said before, he made a mistake in expressing his frustration at the time to the press.... I just do not think that is what he should be remembered for in Detroit.
Red Kelly #4 and Larry Aurie #6 belong in the rafters!!!

"For my game, I don't need to score the goal," Konstantinov once explained. "I need someone to start thinking about me and forgetting about scoring goals."

#199 norrisnick

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 03:02 PM

QUOTE (NomadFromKazoo @ May 1, 2009 - 09:59AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We offered him a far smaller contract then the market. He said publicly that he thought we wanted to go with younger players, which seems consistent with that. Kenny was silent. He pondered retirement and decided to play for the Rangers for 4 mil. So in the context of my point on Federov, what's your point exactly?

Kenny offered $4M to Shanny.

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#200 NomadFromKazoo

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 03:08 PM

QUOTE (egroen @ May 1, 2009 - 11:38AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ultimately, a lot of us just react to the poor way he handled leaving differently. I know people who handle pressure with grace, and those that don't.... I try not to judge them based mainly on this. Brendan Shanahan really did the same thing as Fedorov did in '03, but he just handled it better (and most of us were secretly glad to see him leave). Face it, Shanahan has a lot of charisma -- the guy screwed his teamate's wife, later married her and he is one of the most liked players in the NHL. You want to talk about a cancer in the locker room?

If merely wanting to leave the Red Wings to take on a different role is enough to cancel out all his merits as a player during his years in Detroit (for consideration of his number in the rafters), then there will probably be no convincing you otherwise. If it has more to do with his poor choice of comments at those times, I just think that will not seem as big a deal as the years wear on. Like I said before, he made a mistake in expressing his frustration at the time to the press.... I just do not think that is what he should be remembered for in Detroit.

Shanahan leaving for twice the money is the same as Federov leaving for less? It's "judging" him? What we "remember" him for is equivalent to hanging his name from the rafters? Sure it is. Spin, spin.

I said in the beginning if he changes from when he left, I'm open to that. I'm not open to just forgetting that he didn't want to be here and he told us so, twice. I'll give you an example, I'm a Redskin fan in football. I moved back and forth between Kalamazoo and the DC area and Michigan's team is, you know, the Lions. Easy choice. Anyway, Art Monk said some bitter things when he left the Redskins and I was irked. Then when he retired he signed a one day contract to retire a Skin. His way of saying what he was in the end. Message sent, message received. When Federov does something like that, I'm totally open to the same consideration. Your spin doctoring, broad brushes and accusations of judging don't do it. Only Federov can say he wants the fence mended. His last statement to us was he wanted out and would leave money on the table to get it. That is the status quo, it is not the past.
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