Jump to content


Photo
* * - - - 5 votes

will wings retire fedorov's 91?


  • Please log in to reply
206 replies to this topic

#21 hckypete96

hckypete96

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 662 posts

Posted 26 April 2009 - 09:37 PM

oh man it's not like this topic comes up every week. oh wait....
Z's just livin another day in the life of a god damn boss.....

#22 Jersey Wing

Jersey Wing

    Watching Eastern Conference hockey before it was cool...

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,117 posts
  • Location:Jersey City, NJ

Posted 26 April 2009 - 10:47 PM

I'm of the mind when it comes to retiring numbers if you even have to debate the individual, it shouldn't be retired.

I'd love to see both Fedorov and Shanahan's numbers retired but I don't think they should be.

Lidstrom yes. Osgood yes.

Ask me in 5-7 years about Datsyuk and Zetterberg.


14767451334_8f0d14d8cb_o.jpg


#23 Winged_Wheeler

Winged_Wheeler

    3rd Line Checker

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 390 posts

Posted 26 April 2009 - 10:57 PM

Yes it will.


#24 Shaman

Shaman

    Die hard Red Wing fan and realist.

  • Silver Booster
  • 3,846 posts
  • Location:Kalamazoo Michigan (WMU)

Posted 26 April 2009 - 11:16 PM

I honestly doubt it, Feds was a great player, and put up a lot of points, but no way can he be mentioned in the same sentence as Yzerman or Howe when it comes to impact on Wings history.
Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#25 F.Michael

F.Michael

    Old School Dynamic Duo

  • HoF Booster
  • 7,750 posts
  • Location:Wisconsin

Posted 26 April 2009 - 11:22 PM

QUOTE (Jersey Wing @ April 26, 2009 - 10:47PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm of the mind when it comes to retiring numbers if you even have to debate the individual, it shouldn't be retired.

I'd love to see both Fedorov and Shanahan's numbers retired but I don't think they should be.

Lidstrom yes. Osgood yes.

Ask me in 5-7 years about Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

What he said thumbup.gif

'Evolution' created by Offsides

#26 C-TownWing

C-TownWing

    Little Ball of Hate

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,343 posts
  • Location:Cleveland, OH

Posted 26 April 2009 - 11:42 PM

QUOTE (Jersey Wing @ April 26, 2009 - 11:47PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm of the mind when it comes to retiring numbers if you even have to debate the individual, it shouldn't be retired.

I'd love to see both Fedorov and Shanahan's numbers retired but I don't think they should be.

Lidstrom yes. Osgood yes.

Ask me in 5-7 years about Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

Pretty much agree with this.

My opinion's always been that hey, #s 1, 7, 9, 10, 12 all contributed to the four Cups in the 50s in one way or another. Why would it be so horrible to have 5, 13, 19, 30, 40 (assuming continued production from 13 and 40) retired from our four (and counting) Cups from 1997-present? That's not relaxing the standards--it's being consistent.

#27 RockyMountainWingGal

RockyMountainWingGal

    RockyMountainWingGal

  • HoF Booster
  • 3,810 posts
  • Location:Denver, Colorado

Posted 26 April 2009 - 11:42 PM

QUOTE (Ms_Hockey @ April 26, 2009 - 08:10PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Because from what I've been reading about the issue in general. Some say that Feds got cocky and left the team.. others say Feds was offered a contract that Detroit pulled on him when he went to sign it.

If it was, in fact, the latter.. then it amazes me.

Not sure if you were paying attention to this day by day like many of us were in 2003 - I'll give you my rendition. (why not - got a week off til more hockey)

During the course of the 02-03 year, the Wings had a 5 year 50 mill offer on the table. Sergei sat around for quite awhile without signing that offer. Some say he was going through his divorce with Anna, so he was '"upset" and needed time to think things over. Not sure about you, but I don't need time to think about 50mill.

At some point, the Wings rescinded that particular offer, a new one came up 4 yrs, 40 mill.
I am fuzzy on this but it might have been after the Wings got swept in the first round by the Ducks. Sergei rejected that too.

Anyhow, several days went by after the July 1 FA signing period and it seemed no other teams wanted to pay 10 mill per year for Feds (at least that's the impression I got). Rumor was he was still negotiating with Detroit.

Several days later his signed with the Ducks for 5 yrs/40 mill. So essentially he could have had 10 mill per year in Detroit but he took 8 mill per year from the Ducks. All the while his agent was spewing that Sergei only wanted to stay in Detroit.

What I as a huge Fedorov fan got from all this, besides a heartache, was that he never wanted or intended to stay with the Wings once he was a FA. That of course is his right, but it pissed the S^&% out of me as a Wings fan, and someone who hoped Feds retired a Wing. There aren't alot of players who have willingly walked from the Wings for less money, but he is the prime example.

The sad thing is, Fedorov has never been half the player he was since he left Detroit. Should have stayed comrade!
New season, New start! May the force be with the Wings this time!

#28 Shoreline

Shoreline

    Panzerfaust

  • HoF Booster
  • 12,817 posts
  • Location:Brampton, ON

Posted 27 April 2009 - 12:02 AM

QUOTE (RockyMountainWingGal @ April 26, 2009 - 09:42PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not sure if you were paying attention to this day by day like many of us were in 2003 - I'll give you my rendition. (why not - got a week off til more hockey)

During the course of the 02-03 year, the Wings had a 5 year 50 mill offer on the table. Sergei sat around for quite awhile without signing that offer. Some say he was going through his divorce with Anna, so he was '"upset" and needed time to think things over. Not sure about you, but I don't need time to think about 50mill.

At some point, the Wings rescinded that particular offer, a new one came up 4 yrs, 40 mill.
I am fuzzy on this but it might have been after the Wings got swept in the first round by the Ducks. Sergei rejected that too.

Anyhow, several days went by after the July 1 FA signing period and it seemed no other teams wanted to pay 10 mill per year for Feds (at least that's the impression I got). Rumor was he was still negotiating with Detroit.

Several days later his signed with the Ducks for 5 yrs/40 mill. So essentially he could have had 10 mill per year in Detroit but he took 8 mill per year from the Ducks. All the while his agent was spewing that Sergei only wanted to stay in Detroit.

What I as a huge Fedorov fan got from all this, besides a heartache, was that he never wanted or intended to stay with the Wings once he was a FA. That of course is his right, but it pissed the S^&% out of me as a Wings fan, and someone who hoped Feds retired a Wing. There aren't alot of players who have willingly walked from the Wings for less money, but he is the prime example.

The sad thing is, Fedorov has never been half the player he was since he left Detroit. Should have stayed comrade!

This, plus the Wings waiting on Feds, while Feds and his agent were toying with the Wings, caused the team to lose out on other possible elite free agents. So Feds doubly screwed the team, and since my loyalties are with the team first, he can eat s*** and retire his number elsewhere.

#29 Vladiator

Vladiator

    1st Line All-Star

  • Gold Booster
  • 1,104 posts
  • Location:Perrysburg, OH

Posted 27 April 2009 - 12:29 AM

QUOTE (Shoreline @ April 27, 2009 - 01:02AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This, plus the Wings waiting on Feds, while Feds and his agent were toying with the Wings, caused the team to lose out on other possible elite free agents. So Feds doubly screwed the team, and since my loyalties are with the team first, he can eat s*** and retire his number elsewhere.


yep that pretty much sums up the story. I was a big fan of Feds until he bailed out and screwed the Wings out of signing some other players while he sat there on the contract (hence my aviator). Although his signing with the Ducks probably will be concluded to be more of a blessing in disguise for the Wings (How many threads have been out about Feds and Lang being mentioned in the same sentence as lazy & sucks??). Yeah his track record since leaving the Wings would not characterize a player making 10M a year with his stats since leaving.

#30 Anomalously

Anomalously

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,264 posts
  • Location:Austin, TX

Posted 27 April 2009 - 12:36 AM

162 games played. 50 goals. 113 assists. 163 points.

In the playoffs.

Four consecutive 20-point performances. In the playoffs. And 3 Cups with the Wings.

Some have thrown around Shanahan -- Shanny? 72 playoff points (44% of Fedorov's total in 65% of the games).

Fedorov's points-per-game in the playoffs eclipsed Yzerman's -- and is almost identical to Howe's.

Further, only 18 players have more playoff points than Fedorov if you only count his resume as a Wing. Of them, only Wayne Gretzky, Mark Messier, Jari Kurri, Glenn Anderson, Joe Sakic, Steve Yzerman, Bryan Trottier, Jean Beliveau, and Mario Lemieux have more with just one team. And four of those guys are associated with the Edmonton Oilers dynasty of the 80s.


No, Fedorov isn't a lock. But he should be (and yes, it feels like I've made this argument before...)

-- Anom (#24)


#31 Nev

Nev

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,085 posts
  • Location:Lincolnshire, England

Posted 27 April 2009 - 12:58 AM

QUOTE (Shaman464 @ April 27, 2009 - 05:16AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I honestly doubt it, Feds was a great player, and put up a lot of points, but no way can he be mentioned in the same sentence as Yzerman or Howe when it comes to impact on Wings history.


Not even Lidstrom can be mentioned with those 2 in terms of impact on Wings history (although he should be). Feds is 3rd all-time in playoffs points, 4th all-time in regular season points. As mentioned above, 163 points in 162 playoff games is a phenomonal stat.

#91 won't be retired anytime soon, and I believe the same will be the case for Shanahan, Osgood, Holmstrom, Draper, Maltby and McCarty. But eventually that time will come.

One day the Wings will suck. It won't be anytime soon, but one day they will suck. Lidstrom will be gone. Datsyuk and Zetterberg will be gone or aging vets burdened by a high cap number. Ken Holland will be gone. Mike Babcock will be gone. Mike Ilitch will be dead. And we will suck. It might not be for another 10, 20 years. But one day, we will suck. And attendances will plummit. The Joe, or [insert corporate sponsor] Arena will be empty. And fans will look back and reminisce on the teams of this era, and management ("modern", less traditional, less classy management), desperate to reinject some life into the fanbase, to get bums on seats, will start retiring the great old names of the past.

I've just never figured out why everyone hates Fedorov for leaving as an UFA, but when Shanny does the same its "Good luck"
"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#32 Shoreline

Shoreline

    Panzerfaust

  • HoF Booster
  • 12,817 posts
  • Location:Brampton, ON

Posted 27 April 2009 - 02:12 AM

QUOTE (Nev @ April 26, 2009 - 10:58PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've just never figured out why everyone hates Fedorov for leaving as an UFA, but when Shanny does the same its "Good luck"

Contract problems is not exactly a single-time issue with Fedorov, if one recalls his antics years ago. Posts 27 and 28 are very descriptive and to the point as to the deal with Fedorov and the Ducks, and if you objectively read these and consider how straight forward the Shanny UFA thing was (he did not toy with the Wings), you'd see why both are seen in a different light. I'd actually be opposed to Shanny being retired by the Wings as well, but I wouldn't voice near as much opposition or vitriol toward it as I would Fedorov.

#33 F.Michael

F.Michael

    Old School Dynamic Duo

  • HoF Booster
  • 7,750 posts
  • Location:Wisconsin

Posted 27 April 2009 - 02:41 AM

QUOTE (Anomalously @ April 27, 2009 - 12:36AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No, Fedorov isn't a lock. But he should be (and yes, it feels like I've made this argument before...)

Lock to have his # hoisted up to the rafters in the Joe, or Feds being inducted into the HOF?

IMO I'd have to say "no" to the 1st portion of the question above, but "yes" to the 2nd portion.

Edited by F.Michael, 27 April 2009 - 02:42 AM.


'Evolution' created by Offsides

#34 F.Michael

F.Michael

    Old School Dynamic Duo

  • HoF Booster
  • 7,750 posts
  • Location:Wisconsin

Posted 27 April 2009 - 02:53 AM

QUOTE (Shoreline @ April 27, 2009 - 02:12AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Contract problems is not exactly a single-time issue with Fedorov, if one recalls his antics years ago. Posts 27 and 28 are very descriptive and to the point as to the deal with Fedorov and the Ducks, and if you objectively read these and consider how straight forward the Shanny UFA thing was (he did not toy with the Wings), you'd see why both are seen in a different light. I'd actually be opposed to Shanny being retired by the Wings as well, but I wouldn't voice near as much opposition or vitriol toward it as I would Fedorov.

I can't knock Fedorov - I always liked him (wished he would've stayed), but there were times where I questioned his desire/work ethic (something we never questioned with Stevie Y).

That said there was also the long hold-out back in the 97/98 season - that is until the Canes/Karmonos connection offered Feds the massive front-loaded contract (something like $14 million his 1st year then $2 million for the next 5 years)...I'm pretty certain both Holland, & Ilitch weren't happy campers.

'Evolution' created by Offsides

#35 Reds4Life

Reds4Life

    Red Wings

  • Gold Booster
  • 2,640 posts
  • Location:Czech republic

Posted 27 April 2009 - 04:25 AM

Wings do not win any of the 3 (97, 98, 02) Cups without Feds..so hell yeah they should retire his number!

Edited by Reds4Life, 27 April 2009 - 04:25 AM.


#36 zettie85

zettie85

    Selke Candidate

  • HoF Booster
  • 1,777 posts
  • Location:Dryden, Ontario

Posted 27 April 2009 - 04:25 AM

No, If his whole career was spent with the Wings maybe. Lidstrom is the only one that will have his jersey retired as of now.
Posted Image
Thanks TeeMan!

#37 SouthernWingsFan

SouthernWingsFan

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 24,609 posts
  • Location:Mandeville, Louisiana (Greater New Orleans area)

Posted 27 April 2009 - 06:18 AM

Probably not. The way Fedorov's career ended in Detroit was not handled all too happily, whether he was right/wrong in the whole drama, or whether it was fair/unfair. Which is entirely subjective of course.

#38 Broken 16

Broken 16

    Bonecrushing Blueliner

  • Gold Booster
  • 2,959 posts

Posted 27 April 2009 - 07:08 AM

QUOTE (StevieY'sguy @ April 26, 2009 - 08:42PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I was just thinking about whose numbers will be going in the rafters last night, here's what i came up with:

Locks: Lidstrom, Osgood

Probable: Shanahan, Zetterberg,Datsyuk (barring something unforseen happening to Z or Pav)

Possible: Fedorov -The messy break up is the only thing that puts him in this category,
Chelios-he played 7 seasons in Montreal and won a cup, 9 in Chicago and won 2 Norris Trophies, 9 in Detroit and won 2 Cups and will probably retire as a Wing....a very unique career, not many hall of famers split their career almost equally among 3 teams

Longshots/too early to tell- Draper, had an A, won 4 cups and made an Olympic team, Franzen- if he can keep up his production for the majority of his 11 year deal



Fedorov deserves to have his number retired WAY before Shanahan... imo. Shanny brought intensity and hardcore grit for MAYBE two seasons. After that he was a glorified, cherry pickin' sniper.

Edited by Broken 16, 27 April 2009 - 07:12 AM.


#39 C-TownWing

C-TownWing

    Little Ball of Hate

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,343 posts
  • Location:Cleveland, OH

Posted 27 April 2009 - 08:50 AM

QUOTE (Nev @ April 27, 2009 - 01:58AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One day the Wings will suck. It won't be anytime soon, but one day they will suck. Lidstrom will be gone. Datsyuk and Zetterberg will be gone or aging vets burdened by a high cap number. Ken Holland will be gone. Mike Babcock will be gone. Mike Ilitch will be dead. And we will suck. It might not be for another 10, 20 years. But one day, we will suck. And attendances will plummit. The Joe, or [insert corporate sponsor] Arena will be empty. And fans will look back and reminisce on the teams of this era, and management ("modern", less traditional, less classy management), desperate to reinject some life into the fanbase, to get bums on seats, will start retiring the great old names of the past.

I've just never figured out why everyone hates Fedorov for leaving as an UFA, but when Shanny does the same its "Good luck"

Scary thought, but absolutely correct. Crappy teams with low attendance but at least some semblance of history (or sometimes not) are notorious for retiring numbers that probably don't deserve it to get a cheap sellout out of it. And someday, hopefully a long, long time from now, the Wings will suck.

BTW, the answer to your question is "because most people wanted Feds back but wanted Shanny to leave."

#40 RockyMountainWingGal

RockyMountainWingGal

    RockyMountainWingGal

  • HoF Booster
  • 3,810 posts
  • Location:Denver, Colorado

Posted 27 April 2009 - 09:20 AM

QUOTE (Reds4Life @ April 27, 2009 - 03:25AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wings do not win any of the 3 (97, 98, 02) Cups without Feds..so hell yeah they should retire his number!

Then why didn't the Wings win in '95 or '96? Conversely, Fedorov wins no Cups without the Wings.....

Fedorov - in his prime - was maybe the most dynamic player I've ever seen. I got the feeling later in his time with the Wings that he wasn't leaving it all on the ice (sans 02 where he played great). His antics (hold out in 98, contract dispute in 03) are unfortunate. For that reason alone, the Wings will never retire his number. I could see some kind of tribute to past Wings at some point, but no retirement.

Not sure how people don't see that Shanny was different. Fedorov was drafted a Wing and could have stayed with them his whole career. Shanny came in mid-career as a trade. Fedorov bolted in what still should have been prime years in his career - and pre-cap era where the Wings made an overgenerous offer and he refused. Shanny was a UFA in the twilight of his career - post-cap era where the numbers count. His friend and Captain just retired and he did the right thing by allowing the Wings to go in a different direction with some younger players. Big difference.
New season, New start! May the force be with the Wings this time!





Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users