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will wings retire fedorov's 91?


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#41 egroen

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 09:23 AM

QUOTE (Anomalously @ April 27, 2009 - 01:36AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
162 games played. 50 goals. 113 assists. 163 points.

In the playoffs.

Four consecutive 20-point performances. In the playoffs. And 3 Cups with the Wings.

Some have thrown around Shanahan -- Shanny? 72 playoff points (44% of Fedorov's total in 65% of the games).

Fedorov's points-per-game in the playoffs eclipsed Yzerman's -- and is almost identical to Howe's.

Further, only 18 players have more playoff points than Fedorov if you only count his resume as a Wing. Of them, only Wayne Gretzky, Mark Messier, Jari Kurri, Glenn Anderson, Joe Sakic, Steve Yzerman, Bryan Trottier, Jean Beliveau, and Mario Lemieux have more with just one team. And four of those guys are associated with the Edmonton Oilers dynasty of the 80s.


No, Fedorov isn't a lock. But he should be (and yes, it feels like I've made this argument before...)

I agree - and think Fedorov deserves to go up -- but it certainly won't be for a long time if it ever does happen.

For those bringing up Osgood: Ozzie will need to make the Hall of Fame before his number is retired, which is not guaranteed.

Red Kelly #4 and Larry Aurie #6 belong in the rafters!!!

"For my game, I don't need to score the goal," Konstantinov once explained. "I need someone to start thinking about me and forgetting about scoring goals."

#42 softshoes

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 09:25 AM

QUOTE (Mike @ April 26, 2009 - 09:58PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Lidstrom is the only lock. Osgood is in the probable category. If Z and Datsyuk do indeed stay in Detroit for their entire careers then probably. Shanahan, Federov, Chelios and Draper will not have their numbers retired.


This

My take is if you have to debate it at all it doesn't belong up there.
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#43 GordieSid&Ted

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 09:32 AM

QUOTE (Anomalously @ April 27, 2009 - 01:36AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
162 games played. 50 goals. 113 assists. 163 points.

In the playoffs.

Four consecutive 20-point performances. In the playoffs. And 3 Cups with the Wings.

Some have thrown around Shanahan -- Shanny? 72 playoff points (44% of Fedorov's total in 65% of the games).

Fedorov's points-per-game in the playoffs eclipsed Yzerman's -- and is almost identical to Howe's.

Further, only 18 players have more playoff points than Fedorov if you only count his resume as a Wing. Of them, only Wayne Gretzky, Mark Messier, Jari Kurri, Glenn Anderson, Joe Sakic, Steve Yzerman, Bryan Trottier, Jean Beliveau, and Mario Lemieux have more with just one team. And four of those guys are associated with the Edmonton Oilers dynasty of the 80s.


No, Fedorov isn't a lock. But he should be (and yes, it feels like I've made this argument before...)



............and Dino has 600+ career goals. How many players have accomplished that feat? Just saying that stats don't tell the whole story.


I liken this ridiculously overdone question of whether Feds number should get retired to what Dino Ciccarelli faces with the Hall of Fame.

Are Dino's numbers/accomplishments good enough to get into the Hall of Fame. Hell Yes

Are Sergei's numbers/accomplishments good enough to warrant his number being retired? Yes, I think so.

Did Dino do anything controversial or that might have upset his chances of getting into the HOF? Yup.

Did Feds do anything controversial or that might have upset his chances of getting his jersey retired. I guess its a matter of opinion, but to many the answer is yes, he did.

As a Wings fan first, nobody comes before the organization for me.

That said, there are 3 guys that I would put up there because they have been great players (although not all superstars), they have been great Red Wings, they have accomplished great things and have proven their loyalty to the organization time and time again.

They are

1. Nick Lidstrom
2. Chris Osgood
3. Kris Draper

***Kirk Maltby

All this talk of Chelios and Shanny (2 of my all time favorite hockey players) is just ridiculous. Please stop it people. Hank and Pavs? Are we really discussing them right now? Hell, why not throw Kronwall into that discussion. Way too early so give it a rest people.


In the end none of our opinions matter. We have no say, no control. But as a betting man, I would bet anybody, anything they want and can back up that Fedorov won't ever have his jersey retired by the Wings. And frankly, I can live with that.

Edited by GordieSid&Ted, 27 April 2009 - 09:35 AM.

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#44 bellarina

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 10:17 AM

Locks: Lidstrom

Probable:Osgood

Possible: Shanny,Chelli, Zetterberg and Datsyuk

No way in hell: Federov
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#45 JPT

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 10:28 AM

Oh please who in their right mind would think Draper should have his jersey retired? Good player who filled his niche but to get your number in the rafters you have to be special, almost define the organization. Thats why Osgood, Chelios and Shanahan should not have their numbers retired either.

As for Federov he was one of my all time favorite Wings, a scary talent and a dominant force(most of the time). However I just have a feeling that he shouldn't have his jersey up there....

#46 Dimaline312000

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 10:31 AM

Fedorov was a great player for the Wings and continues to be a great player for the Caps but I see no real reason the Wings should retire his number. If it were up to me I wouldn't he isn't a career player for the Wings like Yzerman was and like Lidsrom and Holmstrom and player like that. He's a great player but he's not a Red Wing anymore so I see no reason the Wings would waste a number retirment on him.

#47 TheCaptain19

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 10:34 AM

Fedorov would have had his number retired, AND been remembered as an NHL great much more so had he not left Detroit.

#48 vangvace

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 10:41 AM

QUOTE (Nev @ April 27, 2009 - 01:58AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One day the Wings will suck. It won't be anytime soon, but one day they will suck. Lidstrom will be gone. Datsyuk and Zetterberg will be gone or aging vets burdened by a high cap number. Ken Holland will be gone. Mike Babcock will be gone. Mike Ilitch will be dead. And we will suck. It might not be for another 10, 20 years. But one day, we will suck. And attendances will plummit. The Joe, or [insert corporate sponsor] Arena will be empty. And fans will look back and reminisce on the teams of this era, and management ("modern", less traditional, less classy management), desperate to reinject some life into the fanbase, to get bums on seats, will start retiring the great old names of the past.

I've just never figured out why everyone hates Fedorov for leaving as an UFA, but when Shanny does the same its "Good luck"


Fedorov had two contract disputes and was questioned from time to time about mailing it in.

Also, Detroit has already had a long, dark period where they could have retired more numbers than they did.
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#49 Jarret_G

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 10:56 AM

I think Fedorov could be a hall of famer, but don't think his Red Wings jersey should be retired. Having your jersey retired by an organization means you have been dedicated and contributed to that organization in a way only a select few have. Even if Feds point production sloped down like it has in the last few years, but he was still a red wing, then i could see his jersey being lifted, but he went to Anaheim, Columbus and then to the Capitals, where he hasn't dont bad for himself, but still hasn't put up a 25-30 goal season that is/was expected of him.

That said, Fedorov's contract is up at the end of the year...and while it's a longshot, it would be amazing to see him become a wing again. I say that if he finishes his career in detroit, give him a second chance, and then maybe his jersey will be lifted to the rafters.

#50 chrisdetroit

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 11:07 AM

QUOTE (bellarina @ April 27, 2009 - 11:17AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Locks: Lidstrom

Probable:Osgood

Possible: Shanny,Chelli, Zetterberg and Datsyuk

No way in hell: Federov


Lidstrom, absolutely
Osgood, maybe
Cheli, no
Shanny, no
Feds, no
Draper, no

Pavs and Z, to soon to tell

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#51 chrisdetroit

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 11:08 AM

QUOTE (Jarret_G @ April 27, 2009 - 11:56AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think Fedorov could be a hall of famer, but don't think his Red Wings jersey should be retired. Having your jersey retired by an organization means you have been dedicated and contributed to that organization in a way only a select few have. Even if Feds point production sloped down like it has in the last few years, but he was still a red wing, then i could see his jersey being lifted, but he went to Anaheim, Columbus and then to the Capitals, where he hasn't dont bad for himself, but still hasn't put up a 25-30 goal season that is/was expected of him.

That said, Fedorov's contract is up at the end of the year...and while it's a longshot, it would be amazing to see him become a wing again. I say that if he finishes his career in detroit, give him a second chance, and then maybe his jersey will be lifted to the rafters.


Jesus Christ, not this crap again.


Feds is washed up and we have no room for him. Who would you sit so the "has been" can play?

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#52 egroen

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 11:12 AM

QUOTE (GordieSid&Ted @ April 27, 2009 - 10:32AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
............and Dino has 600+ career goals. How many players have accomplished that feat? Just saying that stats don't tell the whole story.


I liken this ridiculously overdone question of whether Feds number should get retired to what Dino Ciccarelli faces with the Hall of Fame.

Are Dino's numbers/accomplishments good enough to get into the Hall of Fame. Hell Yes

Are Sergei's numbers/accomplishments good enough to warrant his number being retired? Yes, I think so.

Did Dino do anything controversial or that might have upset his chances of getting into the HOF? Yup.

Did Feds do anything controversial or that might have upset his chances of getting his jersey retired. I guess its a matter of opinion, but to many the answer is yes, he did.

As a Wings fan first, nobody comes before the organization for me.

That said, there are 3 guys that I would put up there because they have been great players (although not all superstars), they have been great Red Wings, they have accomplished great things and have proven their loyalty to the organization time and time again.

They are

1. Nick Lidstrom
2. Chris Osgood
3. Kris Draper

***Kirk Maltby

All this talk of Chelios and Shanny (2 of my all time favorite hockey players) is just ridiculous. Please stop it people. Hank and Pavs? Are we really discussing them right now? Hell, why not throw Kronwall into that discussion. Way too early so give it a rest people.


In the end none of our opinions matter. We have no say, no control. But as a betting man, I would bet anybody, anything they want and can back up that Fedorov won't ever have his jersey retired by the Wings. And frankly, I can live with that.

Dino has one of the weakest resumes of all the guys up for the HoF right now. It is more than his on/off-ice altercations that is keeping him from it. 600 goals loses a lot of its luster when you put them into the context of the 80s and consider Dino never even came close to the league leaders in goals in a single season. Longevity should be a part of the equation, but peak performance is an equal if not more heavily-weighted factor, and dino comes up woefully short in that department.

Bringing Kris Draper (or Maltby/McCarty) opens up the rafters to a number of players from the Red Wings past, many of whom have more accolades than Draper.

As I have brought up before - Ted Lindsay left this organization in about the worst possible way you can imagine. If the Wings and he could patch things up, surely they can with Fedorov - whom by many accounts has already bridged many of those divisions - enough that the Red Wings actually considered trading for him from Columbus, which would have been at a large premium considering Columbus is in the division.

If Fedorov's number is retired, I certainly agree it will not be any time soon.


Red Kelly #4 and Larry Aurie #6 belong in the rafters!!!

"For my game, I don't need to score the goal," Konstantinov once explained. "I need someone to start thinking about me and forgetting about scoring goals."

#53 Jarret_G

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 11:17 AM

QUOTE (chrisdetroit @ April 27, 2009 - 11:08AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Jesus Christ, not this crap again.


Feds is washed up and we have no room for him. Who would you sit so the "has been" can play?


I know we have no room for him, which is disapointing, but i think he could help the young guys a little bit. i'm not going to get into who we would take out to let him play, that's Ken's job, i'm just saying i'd love to see Fedorov finish his career as a red wing, clear up the air, and skate into the sunset as a better man, not the "old washed up has-been" that everyone thinks he is.

Personally it's the best case scenario for me, but looking at the team, cap issues, etc it's never going to happen.

#54 StevieY'sguy

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 11:20 AM

I see where many are coming from on the topic of Draper, that he isn't a hall of famer etc. However, there is no rule that says you have to be a hall of famer to get your number retired is there? In my opinion, somebody who has their number retired should spend the vast majority of their career with the team and embody the finer qualities of the organization and of the city. To me that is quintessentially Draper, he spent most of his career with the wings, was a vital player on 4 cup winning teams, made an Olympic team and wore an A. Not to mention he was always a nose to the grindstone worker, and never caused a ruckus in any way, he just kept his mouth shut and worked his butt off for the betterment of the team and was a fan favorite. He is a perfect example of what every Red Wing should be, and that is why i think his number should be retired.

#55 egroen

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 11:36 AM

QUOTE (StevieY'sguy @ April 27, 2009 - 12:20PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I see where many are coming from on the topic of Draper, that he isn't a hall of famer etc. However, there is no rule that says you have to be a hall of famer to get your number retired is there? In my opinion, somebody who has their number retired should spend the vast majority of their career with the team and embody the finer qualities of the organization and of the city. To me that is quintessentially Draper, he spent most of his career with the wings, was a vital player on 4 cup winning teams, made an Olympic team and wore an A. Not to mention he was always a nose to the grindstone worker, and never caused a ruckus in any way, he just kept his mouth shut and worked his butt off for the betterment of the team and was a fan favorite. He is a perfect example of what every Red Wing should be, and that is why i think his number should be retired.

Jimmy D has stated the official reason Larry Aurie's number was un-retired was because he is not in the Hall of Fame.
Under current owners and management, I would say HoF is definitely a must-have.

Guys like Aurie and Pavelich would need to go in well ahead of Draper.

Red Kelly #4 and Larry Aurie #6 belong in the rafters!!!

"For my game, I don't need to score the goal," Konstantinov once explained. "I need someone to start thinking about me and forgetting about scoring goals."

#56 Superted

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 11:38 AM

Maybe Draper and Maltby retire, and Sammy leaves through FA. Somehow I don't see retaining BOTH Hossa and Hudler. To fill in the blanks you're looking at Leino, Helm perhaps Abdelkader.

I know the topic's been done to death but seeing Fedorov back in red and white would be an awesome thing. For one, it'd be nice to clear the air with him (c'mon, can you honestly say we win 3 cups without him), and plus he still has plenty to offer as a role player for perhaps another year or two. I don't know what his contract situation is with Washington but dammit bring him back! tongue.gif

Oh, and his jersey won't be retired if he doesn't come back. HOF though? Hell, yes.

#57 chrisdetroit

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 11:52 AM

QUOTE (Jarret_G @ April 27, 2009 - 12:17PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I know we have no room for him, which is disapointing, but i think he could help the young guys a little bit. i'm not going to get into who we would take out to let him play, that's Ken's job, i'm just saying i'd love to see Fedorov finish his career as a red wing, clear up the air, and skate into the sunset as a better man, not the "old washed up has-been" that everyone thinks he is.

Personally it's the best case scenario for me, but looking at the team, cap issues, etc it's never going to happen.


I agree that it would be good to have him around as a mentor to some young Russian players but we have no young Russian players. As far as the other young guys, we already have enough older players to help them out - Lids, Malts, Drapes. I don't think we need more.


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#58 chrisdetroit

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 11:54 AM

QUOTE (Superted @ April 27, 2009 - 12:38PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Maybe Draper and Maltby retire, and Sammy leaves through FA. Somehow I don't see retaining BOTH Hossa and Hudler. To fill in the blanks you're looking at Leino, Helm perhaps Abdelkader.

I know the topic's been done to death but seeing Fedorov back in red and white would be an awesome thing. For one, it'd be nice to clear the air with him (c'mon, can you honestly say we win 3 cups without him), and plus he still has plenty to offer as a role player for perhaps another year or two. I don't know what his contract situation is with Washington but dammit bring him back! tongue.gif

Oh, and his jersey won't be retired if he doesn't come back. HOF though? Hell, yes.


I give up....Apparently, logic has no place in this thread..

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#59 softshoes

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 12:01 PM

QUOTE (chrisdetroit @ April 27, 2009 - 12:07PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Lidstrom, absolutely
Osgood, maybe
Cheli, no
Shanny, no
Feds, no
Draper, no

Pavs and Z, to soon to tell


Maltby, no
Holmstrom, no
McCarty, no

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#60 #19forPresident!

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 12:09 PM

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