Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted May 3, 2009 (edited) nvm Edited May 3, 2009 by Detroit # 1 Fan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vangvace 12 Report post Posted May 3, 2009 2007-2008: GP- 56 PIM- 116 Downey was the team leader in PIM with Lilja being 2nd with 93 PIM but Lilja played in 23 more games. Downey averaged just slightly over 2 penalties per game that he played in (116/56). I'd say he is prone to putting the team on the PK. This season is a moot point because he only played in 4 games but he did log 7 PIM if anyone wondered. Yeah, I do know the rules of hockey and realize 5 for fighting is off setting. 4-on-4 play can be just as dangerous as a 5-on-4 PP because of the open ice. Plus, some of those fighting majors could have be accompanied by 2 minute minors for roughing, etc. Fighting majors don't result in 4-on-4 play. Also Downey only received an additional 2 minutes (Lappy fight) once during the 07-08 season per hockeyfights.com. He wasn't a detriment to the team while playing. Downey consistently hurts any squad he's with. I never liked Avery when he wore the Winged wheel and like Downey even less. Every game I see him in its about fighting and sending a message instead of playing hockey. We have way too much talent both here and in the farm systems to ever see his crap again. I want to see some more cups hoisted and I think he's a detriment to whatever team he's on. Suspend him? Good riddance. ????????? That video is pretty damning. I wish there was another angle available. 7-10 games for seems right imo. This would be his first suspension iirc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjlegend 155 Report post Posted May 3, 2009 I don't know why the Downey fans can't admit that sometimes, a player "who plays on the edge" who then puts his team short a player with a suspension/major penalty, is doing his team a huge disservice by doing that. I don't want to go as far to say that this is an embarrassment to the organization, but there's no doubt something like this is a checkmark against him in Ken Holland's world. As for Probert, McCarty and Kocur, there came a time when their usefulness as fighters and enforcers completely outshon by their inability to play the game at a fast level. With the Red Wings in 2009, you have to be able to play hockey to get a regular shift. If they don't have that approach, I don't think the Wings would have won Friday against the Ducks, because we'd still be trying to goon in up and even up the cheap-shot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ben_usmc 253 Report post Posted May 3, 2009 yeah that was dirty Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted May 3, 2009 Saw some good stuff from J-Ho on that clip! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike 0 Report post Posted May 3, 2009 Wow. This thread. Wow. Im done. Big surprise there. Anything bad said about Downey and you go running away. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike 0 Report post Posted May 3, 2009 Fighting majors don't result in 4-on-4 play. Also Downey only received an additional 2 minutes (Lappy fight) once during the 07-08 season per hockeyfights.com. He wasn't a detriment to the team while playing. I was speaking more of the additionals on top of the fighting majors. He might not have been a detriment in terms of penalty minutes, but his skating ability and stick handling hurt the team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike 0 Report post Posted May 4, 2009 You're an idiot. Downey had 10 fights, which takes the total down to 66PIM. In the Avs game he got two misconducts and one coinncidental roughing which takes the total down to 44 PIM. He also had coincidental roughings with Fedoruk, McCormick and Bolland, taking the total down 38 PIM. No doubt a considerable amount of those 38PIM were coincidental minors from scrums etc. Even so, using your stupid little maths of 38/56 is about 3 penatlies every 5 games. Lidstrom, Holmstrom, Kopecky, Draper, Lilja and Lebda all put Detroit on the PK more times than Downey did. And I doubt 38PIM is even the true figure, it will be much lower. Penalties are penalties. They are all totaled up on the score sheet. Just because they are coincidental or offsetting doesn't mean they don't count. You can sit there with every player in the league and subtract penalty minutes for any situation you want, the fact is that Downey lead the team in penalty minutes last season and that cannot be refuted. I'd appreciate you leave the childish name calling out of your response, but I shouldn't assume that much out of you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike 0 Report post Posted May 4, 2009 Worst post in the history of LGW. Guy stuck up for his teammates last year and was a popular guy, and yet this is the gratitude he gets through s***ty posts like this. You bandwagoners need to support Downey on this since he's a member of the Wings organization. Don't turn your backs on the guy because of one damn incident. The soft culture of this team has permeated to the fans also. Some of the posts in this thread make me sick. We have to support him because he is a Red Wing? That's the worst argument I have ever heard. You are allowed to not like a player in the Wings organization. Just because you disagree with some the posts in this thread doesn't make them wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike 0 Report post Posted May 4, 2009 Why do people make posts like this? Was Downey a detriment to this team in any way last year for you to post that? Downey plays on the edge, and when a player does that, sometimes he goes over the edge. That's what happens to enforcers or to many hard hitting 3rd and 4th liners around the league. It doesn't mean he's a consistently dirty player, because as far as I've known, he isn't. Having a team full of soft players who play a different style of hockey has made people forget what it's like to have a player like that here. Imagine if every team's fanbase started blasting any players who play on the edge hockey and eventually do something stupid like this. You fans are a bunch a spoiled crybabies. Go root for a basketball team if you don't want to see players like Downey ever being associated with the team. Yeah, those soft players are so bad. It's not like they won us a Cup or anything like that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vangvace 12 Report post Posted May 4, 2009 I was speaking more of the additionals on top of the fighting majors. He might not have been a detriment in terms of penalty minutes, but his skating ability and stick handling hurt the team. I don't know he finished even in +/- and seemed to earn praise from the front office for playing his role. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike 0 Report post Posted May 4, 2009 I don't know he finished even in +/- and seemed to earn praise from the front office for playing his role. Is the front office really going to publicly criticize a player though? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,794 Report post Posted May 4, 2009 Yeah, those soft players are so bad. It's not like they won us a Cup or anything like that. How does that disprove the point I was making? Fact is that posters here have forgotten that having a tough guy around means that he'll do something careless from time to time. That's part of the deal. Every fan in the league would be screaming for his team to get rid of their enforcer if they had the same mindset that some of the people in this thread have. Oh no, a guy made one overly aggressive play even though he's on the ice for his toughness and edginess. Let's get rid of him this instant. Come on, that's overreaction. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,794 Report post Posted May 4, 2009 Is the front office really going to publicly criticize a player though? Why would they criticize him? What did he do wrong last season? There seems to be some fact that's alluding me, related to Downey somehow costing us some big game last year. He had a role on this team and he fit it perfectly. He didn't do anything wrong for this team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike 0 Report post Posted May 4, 2009 Why would they criticize him? What did he do wrong last season? There seems to be some fact that's alluding me, related to Downey somehow costing us some big game last year. He had a role on this team and he fit it perfectly. He didn't do anything wrong for this team. That's a bit of an overreaction. You make it sound like the only mistake that can count against Downey is one that costs the Wings a game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike 0 Report post Posted May 4, 2009 How does that disprove the point I was making? Fact is that posters here have forgotten that having a tough guy around means that he'll do something careless from time to time. That's part of the deal. Every fan in the league would be screaming for his team to get rid of their enforcer if they had the same mindset that some of the people in this thread have. Oh no, a guy made one overly aggressive play even though he's on the ice for his toughness and edginess. Let's get rid of him this instant. Come on, that's overreaction. These are not the same teams of Red Wings pasts. People need to stop thinking that somehow things are going to go back to the way they once were. The simple fact is that the rules have changed and made it very hard to justify having an enforcer waste a roster spot. We have tough guys in Ericsson and Lilja, yes he is tough. Maltby can mix it up and Samuelson tries. There is some toughness without the carelessness. The fact is an enforcer doesn't fit into the current system for the Wings. The Wings are about puck possession and passing, not 2 of Downey's strong points. The only point I saw you make was to blast Red Wings fans. You fans are a bunch a spoiled crybabies. Go root for a basketball team if you don't want to see players like Downey ever being associated with the team. It's possible to be a fan of the Wings and not want an enforcer. If Downey was so integral to the team then why didn't he play in the playoffs last season and why is he not playing in them now? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,794 Report post Posted May 4, 2009 These are not the same teams of Red Wings pasts. People need to stop thinking that somehow things are going to go back to the way they once were. The simple fact is that the rules have changed and made it very hard to justify having an enforcer waste a roster spot. We have tough guys in Ericsson and Lilja, yes he is tough. Maltby can mix it up and Samuelson tries. There is some toughness without the carelessness. The fact is an enforcer doesn't fit into the current system for the Wings. The Wings are about puck possession and passing, not 2 of Downey's strong points. The only point I saw you make was to blast Red Wings fans. It's possible to be a fan of the Wings and not want an enforcer. If Downey was so integral to the team then why didn't he play in the playoffs last season and why is he not playing in them now? It sounds like you want this to turn into an enforcer debate, which is not where I was going with this, but if it goes that way, it's fine with me. I'm just calling people out for hating on Downey over one damn incident in the minors, since he didn't have any such unfortunate incidents when he played for the Wings. What is it exactly that people expect from a guy like Downey? For him to play tough but to never go over the edge? I've never seen any tough guy do that. I still say everyone is overreacting over this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManLuv4Clears 7 Report post Posted May 4, 2009 I'm trying to figure out if this thread is intended to belittle Downey's actions or is being used to knock against the Downey type players in the game. I don't agree with what Downey did and hopefully he was penalized. It scares me when things like this happen and people come out of the woodwork screaming for suspensions, banning, and death by stoning. Hockey's a game for warriors and s*** like this happens and is dealt with occordingly. If you feel the need to get your panties in a bunch maybe Brian Boitano's jersey is the one you should be buying off ebay. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike 0 Report post Posted May 4, 2009 It sounds like you want this to turn into an enforcer debate, which is not where I was going with this, but if it goes that way, it's fine with me. I'm just calling people out for hating on Downey over one damn incident in the minors, since he didn't have any such unfortunate incidents when he played for the Wings. What is it exactly that people expect from a guy like Downey? For him to play tough but to never go over the edge? I've never seen any tough guy do that. I still say everyone is overreacting over this. People will hate who they want to hate no matter what and for seemingly no reason. That's the way it goes. Look at the way some of the posters are reacting to today's loss. Fan is short for fanatic and sometimes it shows. Sorry if I came off like an ass in any of my comments. I was at the game today and am not too happy about the outcome. I just need to cool off and put that game out of my mind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MrSandMan Report post Posted May 4, 2009 (edited) So does that mean you never respected Probert? As someone pointed out earlier, he did a lot of cheap stuff in his career also. Goalies use to play without masks back in the day, too. So what's your point? Scott Stevens and Probert were type of players in the 90's that were used, but it's not the 90's anymore... it's 2009. Goonery doesn't win cups anymore, skill, heart and determination does. Goons get penalties, good teams (Detroit) makes goonery-ism pay the price on the scoreboard to win games. If you like goonery, then watch WWF or UFC. Hockey is evolving into a skilled sport, and it's fun to win. P.S. Don't confuse goons with grit. Grit = Drake. Goon = Downey. Edited May 4, 2009 by MrSandMan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted May 4, 2009 Goalies use to play without masks back in the day, too. So what's your point? Scott Stevens and Probert were type of players in the 90's that were used, but it's not the 90's anymore... it's 2009. Goonery doesn't win cups anymore, skill, heart and determination does. Goons get penalties, good teams (Detroit) makes goonery-ism pay the price on the scoreboard to win games. If you like goonery, then watch WWF or UFC. Hockey is evolving into a skilled sport, and it's fun to win. P.S. Don't confuse goons with grit. Grit = Drake. Goon = Downey. Give it a rest. Pretty much every team in the league still carry an enforcer, theres more skill then the old days but "goons" and tough play remain. And jesus, everytime one of us say that we enjoy enforcers we're told to go watch UFC or WWE, is that what were frickin saying? No, get a clue, we're Red Wings fans, and we love the current team, but we loved the teams of the 90's more, no big deal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManLuv4Clears 7 Report post Posted May 4, 2009 Goalies use to play without masks back in the day, too. So what's your point? Scott Stevens and Probert were type of players in the 90's that were used, but it's not the 90's anymore... it's 2009. Goonery doesn't win cups anymore, skill, heart and determination does. Goons get penalties, good teams (Detroit) makes goonery-ism pay the price on the scoreboard to win games. If you like goonery, then watch WWF or UFC. Hockey is evolving into a skilled sport, and it's fun to win. P.S. Don't confuse goons with grit. Grit = Drake. Goon = Downey. The Ducks won in 2007 so when you say "anymore" I would assume 2008 and.... well, we'll see this year. Anymore was probably the wrong word. I don't think goonery is a success factor either, but don't act like it means your team can't win if they resort to this type of play. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vangvace 12 Report post Posted May 4, 2009 Is the front office really going to publicly criticize a player though? No, but they wouldn't reward him with icetime either. Heck, would they even have him with the club or down in GR? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest micah Report post Posted May 4, 2009 Awesome. Nice to see a little old time hockey from one of our own. The Wings I grew up watching did stuff like that all the time. Fun stuff! I wonder if a little bit of that would take rookie Hiller off his game? Nothing else we've tried has really worked so far.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike 0 Report post Posted May 4, 2009 Awesome. Nice to see a little old time hockey from one of our own. The Wings I grew up watching did stuff like that all the time. Fun stuff! I wonder if a little bit of that would take rookie Hiller off his game? Nothing else we've tried has really worked so far.... It would also result in a suspension and the Wings don't need to be another man down. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
