Downey Elbows Opposing Goalie In AHL Playoffs

[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

The Moose are a good team. What is it with certain players like Krog who seem to be unreal in the AHL but can't do s*** when they come up to the show.

[Guest Shoreline]

The Moose are a good team. What is it with certain players like Krog who seem to be unreal in the AHL but can't do s*** when they come up to the show.

That's actually what I was thinking too. Krog is a perfect example of a career AHL'er.

[Doc Holiday 0]

Sounds like Downey was trying to provide a little jump. Good on him! I hope Ablekader is watching him very closely, it'll be nice to have a guy in Detroit next year who isn't of the Franzen/Holmstrom/Maltby/Sammuelson school of toughness.

Yeah, Holmstrom isn't tough at all. What a baby.

[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

That's actually what I was thinking too. Krog is a perfect example of a career AHL'er.

Him and Haydar, although I think Haydar was never given a fair shot because no one liked the 5'9 frame. He's a little too old to make a name for himself now.

[Guest micah]

Yeah, Holmstrom isn't tough at all. What a baby.

he's turned Pronger down for what, three fights in the last two series against the Ducks? Taking their best D-Man off the ice for 5 minutes would be a big plus for the Wings. He's wearing extra padding anyway, why not go for it? Perhaps that would have paid off more than the zero points he's scored so far this series. Pronger means more to the Ducks than Homer does to the Wings. Homer has had chances to take Pronger out of the game for 5 minutes but hasn't, likely because he's afraid of getting his ass handed to him (which he certainly would, but it'd be worth it). Not dropping them with Pronger is selfish and absolutely shows a lack of toughness.

Edited May 5, 2009 by micah

[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

Pretty sure Pronger would destroy Homer in a fight

[Frozen-Man 144]

he's turned Pronger down for what, three fights in the last two series against the Ducks? Taking their best D-Man off the ice for 5 minutes would be a big plus for the Wings. He's wearing extra padding anyway, why not go for it? Perhaps that would have paid off more than the zero points he's scored so far this series. Pronger means more to the Ducks than Homer does to the Wings. Pronger has had chances to take him out of the game but hasn't, likely because he's afraid of getting his ass handed to him (which he certainly would, but it'd be worth it). Not dropping them with Pronger is selfish and absolutely shows a lack of toughness.

You are probably the only person that I have ever heard call Holmstrom selfish, if only he was as good as Downey.

[Frozen-Man 144]

Sounds like Downey was trying to provide a little jump. Good on him! I hope Ablekader is watching him very closely, it'll be nice to have a guy in Detroit next year who isn't of the Franzen/Holmstrom/Maltby/Sammuelson school of toughness.

Translation: I hate every player on the Detroit Red Wings - none of them are tough enough. Oh yeah but I love the Wings.

[Guest micah]

Pretty sure Pronger would destroy Homer in a fight

No doubt, Homer can't fight to save his life....still, he should take that beating for the good of the team. No matter how the fight goes, Detroit wins because Pronger is locked away for 5 minutes. Pronger is more valuable than Holmstrom.

I would feel differently if Pronger had a reputation for KO-ing guys, but he doesn't. Pronger is an okay fighter but he isn't likely to put Homer out of the game in the event that Homer would man-up and go with him. Heck, years ago, Chelios had the sack to pick a fight with Pronger, and I think we all remember how gutless Cheli was when it came to scrapping with tough guys.

[Guest micah]

You are probably the only person that I have ever heard call Holmstrom selfish, if only he was as good as Downey.

LOL. Why do you suppose Homer refuses to go with Pronger? I think it's because he's afraid and selfish.

I have never stated nor implied that Downey is "better" than Holmstrom, but he is certainly tougher and braver. I respect brave men. I really like Homer's skills in front of the net. I can appreciate that part of him and still think he's a selfish coward who refuses to answer the bell. Pronger is a great player, he's cheapshotted our guys, AND he's invited Homer to go on a few occasions. There's no excuse for turning that down, IMO.

[Frozen-Man 144]

No doubt, Homer can't fight to save his life....still, he should take that beating for the good of the team. No matter how the fight goes, Detroit wins because Pronger is locked away for 5 minutes. Pronger is more valuable than Holmstrom.

I would feel differently if Pronger had a reputation for KO-ing guys, but he doesn't. Pronger is an okay fighter but he isn't likely to put Homer out of the game in the event that Homer would man-up and go with him. Heck, years ago, Chelios had the sack to pick a fight with Pronger, and I think we all remember how gutless Cheli was when it came to scrapping with tough guys.

Oh yeah here is another guy on the Wings Micah would like to bad mouth. Running total = the only guy in the organization that Micah has not bad mouthed is Al Sobotka (but give him time). Homer is a great asset to this team and takes more of a beating than just about any player in the league. Plus you were whining about Lilly having to fight when he got hurt fighting Weber and he's not known for KO-ing guys either, but you still said he shouldn't have been having to fight him. Homer is not on this team to fight, he is on this team to plant in front of the net and screen/deflect shots - and he is the best in the league at it. Since all you care about is fighting go watch the UFC.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Frozen-Man

[esteef 2,679]

LOL. Why do you suppose Homer refuses to go with Pronger? I think it's because he's afraid and selfish.

I have never stated nor implied that Downey is "better" than Holmstrom, but he is certainly tougher and braver. I respect brave men. I really like Homer's skills in front of the net. I can appreciate that part of him and still think he's a selfish coward who refuses to answer the bell. Pronger is a great player, he's cheapshotted our guys, AND he's invited Homer to go on a few occasions. There's no excuse for turning that down, IMO.

Dude, the excuse is Homer can't fight. He's not gonna accept challenges when he knows he can't fight, that's why we have Kopecky.

esteef

[Frozen-Man 144]

LOL. Why do you suppose Homer refuses to go with Pronger? I think it's because he's afraid and selfish.

I think it is because he is a hockey player not an MMA athlete. Some guys are hockey players (a la Dats), some guys are fighters (a la Downey), some guys do both (a la Shanny). I always hear you bad mouth hockey players, like Homer, because they don't fight but I don't hear you bad mouth fighters, Like Downey, because he can't play hockey.

I have never stated nor implied that Downey is "better" than Holmstrom, but he is certainly tougher and braver. I respect brave men. I really like Homer's skills in front of the net. I can appreciate that part of him and still think he's a selfish coward who refuses to answer the bell. Pronger is a great player, he's cheapshotted our guys, AND he's invited Homer to go on a few occasions. There's no excuse for turning that down, IMO.

So if Pronger wanted to go with Hudler or Flip or Dats are they selfish to not drop the gloves with him either. Downey is not any more brave than any of those just HE JUST HAS NO OTHER SKILL, if Downey doesn't drop the gloves he doesn't play because he has no other use. Homer goes to the net and takes a beating every night that is true bravery and actually playing hockey. Sometimes it not selfish or cowardice its not stupid. You don't care about the reason or the strategy of fighting you just want fighting for fighting sake and that is selfish because it has nothing to do with the team's success.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Frozen-Man

[#1ozzie30fan 0]

Griffs just aren't doin anything this series reall dissapointing and as far as the Downey hit I,ve looked at it a few times and

it was a cheap shot but I don't think he got him in the head it look liked the chest to me.

Edited May 5, 2009 by #1ozzie30fan

[pokemonbreeder18 6]

NO! That is NOT what happened! I saw it he actually slashed a player across the stomach after the whistle THATS what gave him the 10 minute NOT elbowing the goalie! I never even saw him go near the goalie!

[Guest Shoreline]

NO! That is NOT what happened! I saw it he actually slashed a player across the stomach after the whistle THATS what gave him the 10 minute NOT elbowing the goalie! I never even saw him go near the goalie!

Might want to have a look at post #13. He ran straight into the Moose goaltender, which more than constitutes "going near".

[Guest micah]

I think it is because he is a hockey player not an MMA athlete. Some guys are hockey players (a la Dats), some guys are fighters (a la Downey), some guys do both (a la Shanny). I always hear you bad mouth hockey players, like Homer, because they don't fight but I don't hear you bad mouth fighters, Like Downey, because he can't play hockey.

I don't bad mouth fighters because of their lack of hockey playing skill because with them it isn't often a question of heart or willingness. If Downey could put up 50 points a year, he would. He can't, it isn't that he decided not to.

Holmstrom could take pronger off the ice for 5 minutes, but has elected not to. That's the difference.

So if Pronger wanted to go with Hudler or Flip or Dats are they selfish to not drop the gloves with him either.

Not so much Dats, because he's a player who is almost as valuable to the Wings and Pronger is to the Ducks (though perhaps not so far this series...I'm sure he'll come around though). Flip or Hudler though? Hell yes! These guys aren't afraid to block a shot if they have to, why should they be afraid to eat a punch for the good of the team?

that said, Pronger is likely too classy a guy to pick a fight with Huds or Flip.

Downey is not any more brave than any of those just HE JUST HAS NO OTHER SKILL, if Downey doesn't drop the gloves he doesn't play because he has no other use.

I agree that he isn't a good hockey player. I'm not arguring that he should be in this playoff series.

Homer goes to the net and takes a beating every night that is true bravery and actually playing hockey. Sometimes it not selfish or cowardice its not stupid. You don't care about the reason or the strategy of fighting you just want fighting for fighting sake and that is selfish because it has nothing to do with the team's success.

Do you think it's a good thing that Homer refuses to help his team by taking the opponent's best D-Man out of the game for 5 minutes when he's offered a chance to? Why exactly do you think Homer shouldn't go with Pronger? Is it because you're afraid he isn't tough enough and would likely get injurred or is it something else?

[Frozen-Man 144]

I don't bad mouth fighters because of their lack of hockey playing skill because with them it isn't often a question of heart or willingness. If Downey could put up 50 points a year, he would. He can't, it isn't that he decided not to.

My point is he only fights and as such is doesn't provide much hockey benefit to his team.

Holmstrom could take pronger off the ice for 5 minutes, but has elected not to. That's the difference.

Holmstrom signed up to play hockey not to get punched in the face by a guy 6" bigger than he is. And again what happens if when fighting a guy vastly oversized he gets injured like Lilly did.

Flip or Hudler though? Hell yes! These guys aren't afraid to block a shot if they have to, why should they be afraid to eat a punch for the good of the team?

You just said it yourself they aren't scared they just aren't stupid either and fighting a guy 9" taller than you are and who is a monster in size compared to those two is just stupid they are far to valuable to lose just because you want to get your jollies seeing a fight.

that said, Pronger is likely too classy a guy to pick a fight with Huds or Flip.

I'm not sure I've ever heard Pronger described that way and not too many who would agree with you there.

Here is a run down of your classy player (and again don't think that your constant gushing and praise for anyone not on this Red Wings roster and constant bad mouthing of those on it has gone unnoticed):

Chris Pronger’s career suspensions and victims:

June 3, 2007: with Anaheim — one playoff game, blow to the head (Ottawa’s Dean McAmmond).

May 15, 2007: with Anaheim — one playoff game, blow to the head (Detroit’s Tomas Holmstrom).

March 14, 2004: with St. Louis — one game, kicking (Calgary’s Ville Nieminen)

April 3, 2002: with St. Louis — two games, cross-check (Dallas’s Brenden Morrow).

Oct. 11, 2000: with St. Louis — one game, leaving bench for altercation (Los Angeles’s Kelly Buchberger).

Dec. 17, 1998: with St. Louis — four games, high stick (Phoenix’s Jeremy Roenick).

Oct. 29, 1995: with St. Louis — four games, slashing (Washington’s Pat Peake)

He is also one of only 3 players ever to be suspended twice in one playoff year (along with, according to your standards, the classy Claude Lemieux).

He is also one of only 3 players to ever be suspended during the Stanley Cup Finals.

Yeah he is a really classy guy - good to know what your standards are and what you uphold as classy.

Do you think it's a good thing that Homer refuses to help his team by taking the opponent's best D-Man out of the game for 5 minutes when he's offered a chance to? Why exactly do you think Homer shouldn't go with Pronger? Is it because you're afraid he isn't tough enough and would likely get injurred [sic] or is it something else?

I think it's good that Homer has enough intelligence to make smart decisions. Homer is not a fighter and never has been. He is much more likely to get hurt by Pronger than Lils was by Weber. I seem to remember you using Lils getting hurt as justification for needing Downey on the team because guys like that should have to be fighting. For example when you said this:

Lilja, being a valuable superstar, could have turtled and said "if you want me, you gotta go through our toughguy first". Lots of superstars get away with that sort of thing.

Quite the double standard.

[Guest micah]

Holmstrom signed up to play hockey not to get punched in the face by a guy 6" bigger than he is. And again what happens if when fighting a guy vastly oversized he gets injured like Lilly did.

What happens if he eats a puck and gets injured? It would suck. But you gott put the team first. I think Holmstrom is tough enough not to get injured in a scrap with Pronger. Apparently you and he feel otherwise. Fine, maybe I overestimated his toughness and he's more fragile than I thought.

You just said it yourself they aren't scared they just aren't stupid either and fighting a guy 9" taller than you are and who is a monster in size compared to those two is just stupid they are far to valuable to lose just because you want to get your jollies seeing a fight.

Jolies? Wanting to see a fight? I thought I was encouraging homer to drop the gloves to aid his team, not just for the sake of fighting.

I'm not sure I've ever heard Pronger described that way and not too many who would agree with you there.

For example when you said this:

LOL - keep reading that thread, Sherlock, it was sarcasm.

[Doc Holiday 0]

he's turned Pronger down for what, three fights in the last two series against the Ducks? Taking their best D-Man off the ice for 5 minutes would be a big plus for the Wings. He's wearing extra padding anyway, why not go for it? Perhaps that would have paid off more than the zero points he's scored so far this series. Pronger means more to the Ducks than Homer does to the Wings. Homer has had chances to take Pronger out of the game for 5 minutes but hasn't, likely because he's afraid of getting his ass handed to him (which he certainly would, but it'd be worth it). Not dropping them with Pronger is selfish and absolutely shows a lack of toughness.

Where has homer turned down a fight with Pronger?

How does extra padding behind his legs help him in a fight?

Why should our players fight every time another player challenges him?

Why is it selfish to not always fight?

Fighting =/= helping the team.

[Guest micah]

Where has homer turned down a fight with Pronger?

At least once last game, and at least twice in their previous playoff series. I don't have video, sorry.

How does extra padding behind his legs help him in a fight?

IIRC, he also wears padding on the sides of his ribcage.

Why should our players fight every time another player challenges him?

They shouldn't - they should fight everytime it will help the team.

Why is it selfish to not always fight?

It isn't selfish to not always fight - it's selfish to refuse a fight when it's in the best interest of your team.

Fighting =/= helping the team.

Taking Chris Pronger off the ice = helping the team.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Any chance this thread hits 30 pages, guys?

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I don't bad mouth fighters because of their lack of hockey playing skill because with them it isn't often a question of heart or willingness. If Downey could put up 50 points a year, he would. He can't, it isn't that he decided not to.

Holmstrom could take pronger off the ice for 5 minutes, but has elected not to. That's the difference.

Homer could also get punched in the jaw, get a concussion and be out for the remainder of the season as a result. Sound familiar?

Just because someone has the ability to fight doesn't mean they always should.

[Guest micah]

Homer could also get punched in the jaw, get a concussion and be out for the remainder of the season as a result. Sound familiar?

Just because someone has the ability to fight doesn't mean they always should.

How likely do you suppose it is that Homer would be out for the remainder of the season after fighting Pronger? I guess I figured he was tough enough that such a circumstance would be highly unlikely. I knew Homer wasn't very tough, but even I give him more credit than you guys do.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

How likely do you suppose it is that Homer would be out for the remainder of the season after fighting Pronger? I guess I figured he was tough enough that such a circumstance would be highly unlikely. I knew Homer wasn't very tough, but even I give him more credit than you guys do.

Who do you think is the better fighter, Holmstrom or Lilja? Now you want to pin him against a massive Pronger with the sole purpose being to get him out of the game for 5 minutes, yet don't even consider the negatives that could happen. Of course its unlikely that what happened to Lilja would happen to Homer in that situation, but it doesn't mean it can't happen.