1460 replies to this topic

[betterREDthandead]

Kitchener/waterloo/cambridge is larger than london

edit: the metro area of london is bigger by only about 7000

And neither are a good idea.

[jollymania]

And neither are a good idea.

better than las vegas where bettman wants it

[Selke13]

I would love to see another Canadian team. It's always bothered me that it's the national sport and we have more teams down here than they have up there. As an American with all these teams, it kind of makes me feel like a poser.

ive thought the same thing, 6 teams in all of canada and 3 in california alone??

[thedisappearer]

Evidently neither were the Bay Area, Minnesota, Atlanta, or Ohio, I guess none of them are allowed to have teams now.

Nice straw man. Not a valid point at all, but a very nice straw man.

*ETA* My point was that there aren't many cities in Canada large enough to sustain a NHL team. You need a sizable population AND enough large businesses to buy luxury boxes and season tickets. While in Canada the requirements are a little lower (as it is the national sport), the NHL is about money. So, to recap, naming 4 American metro areas has no bearing on what I am saying.

Edited by thedisappearer, 05 May 2009 - 08:58 PM.

[ToMaToToWnWinGsFaN_24]

http://makeitseven.ca/

its an online community to bring a 7th franchise to canada...
just announced on cbc..lol

[T-Ruff]

I would love to see another Canadian team. It's always bothered me that it's the national sport and we have more teams down here than they have up there. As an American with all these teams, it kind of makes me feel like a poser.

I don't think it bothers most Canadians... it makes sense that you guys have more teams considering the population and density differences.... Could Canada support 20 NHL teams? I strongly doubt it.... Although there is certainly room for a few more...

move the team to london, it's out of the leafs boundaries so they could piss a moan all they want and couldn't do jack about it.

The idea of teams having "territorial rights" is actually a myth, the Leafs would have no constitutional challenge vs a 2nd team in Toronto.... The most opposition the Leafs would have is a vote against it at the board level. (According to Steve Simmons on TSN's "The Reporters") [There was a video link, but it has since died since I originally posted this on another board]
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I personally would prefer the NHL stays away from Winnipeg and Quebec City, especially in these economic circumstances.... I'd like to see it put in the K/W region considering Jimmy Balsillie's base, and have them play in Copps Coliseum until the arena is built..... London would be preferable also, but I don't see it as likely as K/W or Hamilton...

Edited by T-Ruff, 05 May 2009 - 09:06 PM.

[grwingfan]

I didn't realize how relatively small the Kitchener/Cambridge/Hamilton area is. The population is estimated at 1.15 million. For a comparison Metro Grand Rapids is 1.35 million.

PS.......Metro Winnipeg is 775K.

[Hiei]

Statement by NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly regarding the Phoenix Coyotes

Question: who is Jerry Moyes?

Jerry Moyes owns Swift Transportation (trucking company, on size of Schneider and J.B. Hunt)

[CenterIce]

Coyotes could move to Hamilton, in the Eastern Conference, and the NYI could move West to Kansas City. The Islanders are playing a preseason game there next year. They would have to tweak the divisions, though.

From what I saw, Hamilton is pretty triangular between Toronto, Buffalo, and Detroit. I can't remember the exact mileage, where you have to pay territorial fees, but having to do that to three teams would be rough.

Edited by CenterIce, 05 May 2009 - 09:16 PM.

[thedisappearer]

Coyotes could move to Hamilton, in the Eastern Conference, and the NYI could move West to Kansas City. The Islanders are playing a preseason game there next year. They would have to tweak the divisions, though.

That's actually a really good idea.

[ComradeWasabi]

From what I saw, Hamilton is pretty triangular between Toronto, Buffalo, and Detroit. I can't remember the exact mileage, where you have to pay territorial fees, but having to do that to three teams would be rough.

Hamilton is like an hour from Toronto, two hours from Buffalo and three hours from Detroit (give or take). Honestly the problem has less to do with territorial fees and more to do with the fact that everyone around here already has a team allegiance; lots of Leafs fans, a lot of Pens fans believe it or not (almost all of them bandwagoners), some Buffalo fans even though everyone around here knows Buffalo is a s***hole and some Red Wings fans.

I would go and see the Wings play this new team (I live in Hamilton so it would be super convenient) but I don't really think I would go see this Hamilton team play on a regular basis.

[Cern]

Nice straw man. Not a valid point at all, but a very nice straw man.

*ETA* My point was that there aren't many cities in Canada large enough to sustain a NHL team. You need a sizable population AND enough large businesses to buy luxury boxes and season tickets. While in Canada the requirements are a little lower (as it is the national sport), the NHL is about money. So, to recap, naming 4 American metro areas has no bearing on what I am saying.

The point is that saying putting a team in X city because 'it didn't work the first time' is completely false.

If anything the fact that the NHL is about money is all the more reason why Canada should be getting a bigger share of the league. That's not to say that these sarcastic asinine exaggerations of putting a team in Moose Jaw or the like should be put into realization, but the fact of the matter is that a small minority of the NHL's teams are generating a huge chunk of the league's overall revenue, and it IS geographically correlated. Financially speaking, teams like the Coyotes and the Islanders aren't doing a goddamn thing for the league. The fact that they're in areas with sizable populations and large business support isn't changing that whatsoever.

Besides, if the baseline for an NHL city population-wise is something like Raleigh or Edmonton, Hamilton should be able to fit the bill when you consider the close proximity of Toronto and smaller cities in SW Ontario. In any case, are you seriously going to tell me that there are FEWER people in Ontario who follow hockey first and foremost than there are in North Carolina? If it's all about population and corporate support, put a team in London or Paris. Travel issues be damned, by your criteria it'd be a cash cow.

Edited by Cern, 05 May 2009 - 09:31 PM.

[betterREDthandead]

Coyotes could move to Hamilton, in the Eastern Conference, and the NYI could move West to Kansas City. The Islanders are playing a preseason game there next year. They would have to tweak the divisions, though.

This was discussed in the Wang thread I think.....the Isles are contractually stuck in NY for another six years or so.

[betterREDthandead]

The point is that saying putting a team in X city because 'it didn't work the first time' is completely false.

However, saying "putting a team in X city because it didn't work the first time due to the city being too damn small" is perfectly true. Which happens to be the case with Winnipeg and Quebec.

[MacK_Attack]

Let Balsillie have a NHL team the man has been trying for years , and has been repeatedly shot down. A billionaire who is passionate about hockey can only be good for the game. Move the team to Hamilton. Just the rumor of the preds moving there a few years back had people reserving season tickets. Low risk, cant lose IMO.

Edit: Do they have an 20K seat arena in the area?

Copps Coliseum seats 17,000+ for hockey. There would need to be significant upgrades to private boxes in order to make it a legitimate NHL building, though Balsillie could build a new one.

[thedisappearer]

The point is that saying putting a team in X city because 'it didn't work the first time' is completely false.

OK. But I never made that point. At all.

If anything the fact that the NHL is about money is all the more reason why Canada should be getting a bigger share of the league. That's not to say that these sarcastic asinine exaggerations of putting a team in Moose Jaw or the like should be put into realization, but the fact of the matter is that a small minority of the NHL's teams are generating a huge chunk of the league's overall revenue, and it IS geographically correlated. Financially speaking, teams like the Coyotes and the Islanders aren't doing a goddamn thing for the league. The fact that they're in areas with sizable populations and large business support isn't changing that whatsoever.

I agree here.

If it's all about population and corporate support, put a team in London or Paris. Travel issues be damned, by your criteria it'd be a cash cow.

...and, you just jumped the shark.

Look, if Toronto can sustain a second team, and I think they could, I am all for it. If Hamilton can, fine. But, for financial reasons, Winnipeg can't. Quebec City can't due to money, Montreal drain, and the whole French-only thing. THAT IS MY POINT. You can make insane, incorrect analogies all night, but unless you are talking about Canadian cities and whether they can sustain an NHL franchise, you are missing my point. Bringing up American metro areas and European cities is stupid.

[thedisappearer]

However, saying "putting a team in X city because it didn't work the first time due to the city being too damn small" is perfectly true. Which happens to be the case with Winnipeg and Quebec.

This.

[Cern]

However, saying "putting a team in X city because it didn't work the first time due to the city being too damn small" is perfectly true. Which happens to be the case with Winnipeg and Quebec.

Because raw population is doing wonders for the Islanders or Coyotes, right? Population means nothing if that population has no interest in what's being offered.

Interesting you bring up Quebec, though. While this Basille stuff is going on CBC is coincidentally also reporting that the KHL's founder is looking to buy an NHL team and has made passing remarks about Quebec City.

http://www.cbc.ca/sp...l-medvedev.html

Not that I see it going anywhere, given the KHL-NHL animosity I can't imagine a purchase happening.

[Cern]

Copps Coliseum seats 17,000+ for hockey. There would need to be significant upgrades to private boxes in order to make it a legitimate NHL building, though Balsillie could build a new one.

Rexall Place is even smaller, isn't it?

[ComradeWasabi]

Rexall Place is even smaller, isn't it?

It's big enough, it's just that the rest of the building isn't up to snuff.