1494 replies to this topic

[cusimano_brothers]

Gretzky turned the offer down last night.

From:Canada dot com.

“For me, it’s Phoenix or bust,” said Gretzky told the network on Feb. 14. “I’ve made that clear."

From: Toronro Star.

"In making his third attempt to buy an NHL team, Balsillie has been working the phones, and rumours swirl that he is ready to offer Gretzky anything – part ownership, naming the relocated Coyotes' arena after Wayne's dad Walter – to get him on board."

[NomadFromKazoo]

Playing NHL hockey in the desert was always a stupid idea.

[Esquire]

With all due respect to all of you.... screw you. I do understand your position... but that doesn't mean I'm willing to let go of my second favorite team. Furthermore there is a lot of growth to be had here. First of all, it is possible for a franchise to succeed in the south. Anaheim, Dallas, LA anyone? Hockey is really taking off in those regions, and its seen a lot of growth here. However, the Coyotes are a huge reason for that (heck, Shane Doan is the main inspiration for many of the kids here). The only problem isn't the teams lack of a draw. A lot of it is management. They said last year that they would have to sell out every game just break even on operating costs for the year. What the heck kind of a business model is that? The team needs a shrewd sports businessman. With new capital and smart hockey decisions (which they are making a lot more of right now) they will be competetive in no time. With winning and decent marketing they will bring out plenty of fans (trust me I know this area). That's when you have to get smart. Good marketing and grassroots outreach programs will build support from the ground up. That way once the fans are their, you can keep them interested. That way if the team has some non spectacular years, the fans and support is still there. Establishing hockey in major cities like Dallas, LA, San Jose, and yes Phoenix can only be good for hockey.

I apologize for any antagonization.

Other note: Many state that in the north you grew up playing hockey on the pond and that being something the south can never have is the fundamental problem with warm weather hockey. Well I grew up playing hockey every single day on my street, so that point is moot. In fact, I'd say pick up hockey weather here is better than anywhere else.

- Anaheim is located next to a small tourist attraction called Disneyland, Dallas basically received an existing team that had star players already on the team, and I wouldn't exactly call LA a "successful" franchise but recent developments are finally starting to point the team in the right direction.

- I understand your passion for this game but I'm sure I don't have to explain how living in a country where it's winter 8/12 months of the year makes for the best hockey weather. I grew up in Sudbury, Ontario where the average winter temperatre usually ranges from -10 to -20 (Celcius) and played most of my hockey on community rinks free of charge.

I don't think anyone is going to accuse you of antagonizing either. I'd be livid if my team had been screwed over and even more livid if I as a taxpayer, were footing the bill.

[betterREDthandead]

Regardless of the outcome of this, Sillyballs bothers me, always has. The guy is frothing-at-the-mouth desperate for an NHL team in Hamilton and he strikes me as someone who'd run roughshod over anyone in order to get his toy. Twice now he's made clumsy attempts to tear a franchise out by its roots and his failures at doing so make me think that just because he loves hockey and wants to put a team in a Canada doesn't make him qualified to do so. The Coyotes aren't an especially well-loved franchise, but his willingness to try and force the Penguins to Hamilton shows he cares nothing for actual hockey fans.

[Esquire]

Regardless of the outcome of this, Sillyballs bothers me, always has. The guy is frothing-at-the-mouth desperate for an NHL team in Hamilton and he strikes me as someone who'd run roughshod over anyone in order to get his toy. Twice now he's made clumsy attempts to tear a franchise out by its roots and his failures at doing so make me think that just because he loves hockey and wants to put a team in a Canada doesn't make him qualified to do so. The Coyotes aren't an especially well-loved franchise, but his willingness to try and force the Penguins to Hamilton shows he cares nothing for actual hockey fans.

Balsillie doesn't want an NHL franchise, he wants and NHL franchise in Southern Ontario.

He's had that "bull in a china shop" reputation in the past with the Pittsburgh and Nashville bids in the past because he's spoken out exactly where he intends to put his team, should he gain one. But, if you notice this time, he's very carefully said "southern ontario" and hasn't specified an exact location which I think is smart.

This guy is one of the richest businessmen in Canada and you don't get to be in his position unless you're incredibly savvy and willing to take some lumps along the way. You can be damn sure that Balsillie and his team put a LOT more thought in this move and wouldn't have pulled the trigger unless they were sure they had a very strong case. I'd be willing to bet my savings that Balsillie and his team have done extensive relations work with other owners prior to this happening and that his reputation among owners is a great deal better then the last time they met.

I think Bettman was able to ward him off in the past by convincing other owners that Balsillie wasn't suitable to join their ranks and also by convincing owners that he indeed had a plan to strengthen the struggling teams in the league. Since then, teams like Tampa Bay, Florida, Nashville, etc., have gone further into the tank and Bettman has probably lost a LOT of owner confidence which only helps Balsillie's case. He's taken it out of the NHL's hands and into the courts which is exactly where Balsillie wants it and this could mark the beginning of the end for Bettman.

As for not caring about hockey fans, I fail to see how moving a failing team to the biggest hockey market in the world shows a lack of caring. You can make a case that he doesn't show interest in hockey fans in Phoenix by moving the team, but if you can find a bigger market then 10 million hockey fans that already has pre-existing infrastructure for hockey then I'm all ears...well...eyes at least.

[HadThomasVokounOnFortSt]

Playing NHL hockey in the desert was always a stupid idea.

Yeah, it would never work but I stay keep it there. More teams the better.

[Never_Retire_Steve]

I would be all for this but I don't really like the idea of 3 Ontario teams.

[HadThomasVokounOnFortSt]

I would be all for this but I don't really like the idea of 3 Ontario teams.

I agree, keep Coyotes in Phoenix. Make a new team in KC?

[Esquire]

I would be all for this but I don't really like the idea of 3 Ontario teams.

As opposed to California and New York?

[elriqo28]

better than las vegas where bettman wants it

Bettman wants them to stay where they are at. He hates it when his experiments fail and he is proven wrong so he will do anything to make it work. Like in Nashville. I wish he would just go away. He is doing his best to destroy everything good about hockey.

[betterREDthandead]

Balsillie doesn't want an NHL franchise, he wants and NHL franchise in Southern Ontario.

This guy is one of the richest businessmen in Canada and you don't get to be in his position unless you're incredibly savvy and willing to take some lumps along the way. You can be damn sure that Balsillie and his team put a LOT more thought in this move and wouldn't have pulled the trigger unless they were sure they had a very strong case. I'd be willing to bet my savings that Balsillie and his team have done extensive relations work with other owners prior to this happening and that his reputation among owners is a great deal better then the last time they met.

As for not caring about hockey fans, I fail to see how moving a failing team to the biggest hockey market in the world shows a lack of caring. You can make a case that he doesn't show interest in hockey fans in Phoenix by moving the team, but if you can find a bigger market then 10 million hockey fans that already has pre-existing infrastructure for hockey then I'm all ears...well...eyes at least.

All hockey team owners are successful businessmen. Business savvy and the willingness to take lumps aren't qualities that automatically transfer into quality ownership. What Sillyballs did last time - sell season tickets in Hamilton to something that he didn't own - that might have been the sort of proactive business move that got him ahead in the business world, but it clearly cheesed off most of the league's owners. Not a good move.

And I'm sorry, I don't care what the prevailing LGW opinion is of the Penguins, they're a traditional hockey team in a traditional hockey town with a huge following of devoted fans. That Sillyballs would try and tear that away shows he doesn't care about hockey fans. It's not like there aren't hockey teams in southern Ontario. There's the Maple Leafs (which attract a huge portion of that 10 million figure that wouldn't be interested in the new team) as well as 2 AHL teams and any number of major junior teams. Pittsburgh has: the Penguins. What would Pens fans do if Sillyballs had his way with the Penguins, root for the Blue Jackets instead?

[Bender]

you red wing fans that live outside the detroit area such as toledo or ontario, if a hockey team moved to your home town would you stop being wings fans and pick up the other team?

[no]


Relocating the Coyotes to Ontario makes a lot of sense - just keep them in the Western conference, and rearrange the divisions.

Edited by Bender, 07 May 2009 - 11:53 AM.

[Opie]

He didn't sell season tickets he took deposits on season tickets.
Pitt was rumored to be for sale, he didn't go in and out of the blue say I WANT THE PENGUINS IN HAMILTON NOW.
How did you feel when Winnipeg got moved? Quebec?

Pitt was rebuilt by draft picks, not by a change in the org or the way they handled themselves, they got like what 6 first round picks. Winning = more fans, losing = less fans. More fans = more money, thus allowing them to stay in Pitt. Pho is currently being run by the league, Nashville should be run by the league. I am not saying these teams should be moved, but if they cannot manage to keep themselves a float move them.

If no matter where you put a team they fold, fold the team. I am sorry if you cannot manage to support the team any where you put it that means it is not sustainable and you should cut your losses!

Looking at Pitt today and saying how could anyone want to move them is different than a few years ago when the Igloo was more like the Open Tundra, bare and empty!

[F.Michael]

Regardless of the outcome of this, Sillyballs bothers me, always has. The guy is frothing-at-the-mouth desperate for an NHL team in Hamilton and he strikes me as someone who'd run roughshod over anyone in order to get his toy. Twice now he's made clumsy attempts to tear a franchise out by its roots and his failures at doing so make me think that just because he loves hockey and wants to put a team in a Canada doesn't make him qualified to do so. The Coyotes aren't an especially well-loved franchise, but his willingness to try and force the Penguins to Hamilton shows he cares nothing for actual hockey fans.

How many hockey fans actually care what Balsillie does?

To me it seems as though there are alot more people (fans that is) on Balsillie's side when compared to those who are against him.

Is Balsillie a pompus/arrogant a$$? Probably - though I never met the fella.

Is Balsillie a billionaire who loves hockey? Absolutely.

Is Gary B a goof who by some accounts has wrecked the league vs helping the league? I would say so.

So what's wrong with this picture? Does the league want a team that'll make a profit in which it'll survive longterm; have sell-outs each night; generate revenue for both the league/NHLPA; create more positive media coverage; create a rivalry with 5 other teams (Toronto, Ottawa, Buffalo, Montreal, Detroit)?

Sorry Phoenix, but it appears to me that the team needs to re-locate to Hamilton.

[Never_Retire_Steve]

I agree, keep Coyotes in Phoenix. Make a new team in KC?

Somewhere in the West. If we're going to have another team in Canada, let's put it back in Winnipeg.

As opposed to California and New York?

No, I hate that idea too

[F.Michael]

All hockey team owners are successful businessmen. Business savvy and the willingness to take lumps aren't qualities that automatically transfer into quality ownership. What Sillyballs did last time - sell season tickets in Hamilton to something that he didn't own - that might have been the sort of proactive business move that got him ahead in the business world, but it clearly cheesed off most of the league's owners. Not a good move.

And I'm sorry, I don't care what the prevailing LGW opinion is of the Penguins, they're a traditional hockey team in a traditional hockey town with a huge following of devoted fans. That Sillyballs would try and tear that away shows he doesn't care about hockey fans. It's not like there aren't hockey teams in southern Ontario. There's the Maple Leafs (which attract a huge portion of that 10 million figure that wouldn't be interested in the new team) as well as 2 AHL teams and any number of major junior teams. Pittsburgh has: the Penguins. What would Pens fans do if Sillyballs had his way with the Penguins, root for the Blue Jackets instead?

Did it pi$$ off league owners, or Bettman...Me thinks it was Bettman, & Bettman only.

Why would the league want another team looking for a hand-out via revenue sharing when this team could easily make $$$ hand-over-fist?

Have you ever tried puchasing tickets for a Leafs game? Unlike Wings games - they're impossible to find, and when you are fortunate to find some available - they're marked up $50-$150 per ticket

With a team in Hamilton a family of 4 just might have an opportunity to see an NHL game that is affordable.

[F.Michael]

Bettman wants them to stay where they are at. He hates it when his experiments fail and he is proven wrong so he will do anything to make it work. Like in Nashville. I wish he would just go away. He is doing his best to destroy everything good about hockey.

No doubt.

This is what cheeses me off the most; the man will not admit failure, & he'll lie in order to save face.

Balsillie would be doing the league a huge favor by buying a bankrupt team, paying off the debt of said team, and all that he asks for is that he can move this team to a city in which it'll flourish.

What's wrong with this picture?

[Esquire]

All hockey team owners are successful businessmen. Business savvy and the willingness to take lumps aren't qualities that automatically transfer into quality ownership. What Sillyballs did last time - sell season tickets in Hamilton to something that he didn't own - that might have been the sort of proactive business move that got him ahead in the business world, but it clearly cheesed off most of the league's owners. Not a good move.

And I'm sorry, I don't care what the prevailing LGW opinion is of the Penguins, they're a traditional hockey team in a traditional hockey town with a huge following of devoted fans. That Sillyballs would try and tear that away shows he doesn't care about hockey fans. It's not like there aren't hockey teams in southern Ontario. There's the Maple Leafs (which attract a huge portion of that 10 million figure that wouldn't be interested in the new team) as well as 2 AHL teams and any number of major junior teams. Pittsburgh has: the Penguins. What would Pens fans do if Sillyballs had his way with the Penguins, root for the Blue Jackets instead?

- You're right, but what I had meant here is that his savvy and fortitude can only help in getting a franchise and that a few denials here and there wouldn't stop him.

- I disagree here. This ticket sale move wasn't so much a hardline to get money from fans as much as it was to show the NHL and its owners that legitimate interest in this market exists and that it will be profitable. Now, Balsillie can use these ticket sales as leverage in court to prove to the bankruptcy court judge that he has intentions of taking the team to a market where it will succeed. One of the conditions of the purchase is obviously the move, so Balsillie has already taken care of showing the court hard data that he can sell the team in Southern Ontario.

- Quebec City, Minnesota, Winnipeg, and Hartford would all share your thoughts on this as well, but it wasn't about fans in those cities and it isn't about fans in Phoenix. It's about a moving a failed business to a proven market. In fact, one could argue that owners who fail to provide a quality product on the ice are the ones who don't care about hockey fans (*cough*Leafs*cough*). It's not Balsillie's fault that this franchise failed. If Jerry Moyes had full interest in making hockey work in Phoenix, why would he circumvent the NHL by declaring bankruptcy and allowing Balsillie this chance in the first place? He had discussions with Bettman regarding keeping the Yotes afloat, received $35 million dollars already, and was actually scheduled to meet with him right before he announced the bankruptcy filing. Balsillie and Moyes are clearly working together and given Balsillie's past history, Moyes HAD to have known that moving this team was inevitable.

- AND the Wilkes-Barre Penguins!

[Opie]

No doubt.

This is what cheeses me off the most; the man will not admit failure, & he'll lie in order to save face.

Balsillie would be doing the league a huge favor by buying a bankrupt team, paying off the debt of said team, and all that he asks for is that he can move this team to a city in which it'll flourish.

What's wrong with this picture?

What's wrong you ask, well sir, Mr. Balsillie is not trying to expand the sport where it isn't, he is just trying to help make it strong again.
Silly man, why on earth would he want to take a team that is so far under water they are looking up at the Titanic and the league is having to run them and then put them in a city that is ready to sell out the season on the hopes that a team may come to their area! Can you imagine what these people would do if the team actually came to their area, they may actually but Jerseys, hats, beers and hot dogs at the games, they may actually put some money besides their tax money into the team.

That my friend is exactly what is wrong with this picture, if viewing it from my twisted view of what Bettman is thinking!

[F.Michael]

What's wrong you ask, well sir, Mr. Balsillie is not trying to expand the sport where it isn't, he is just trying to help make it strong again.
Silly man, why on earth would he want to take a team that is so far under water they are looking up at the Titanic and the league is having to run them and then put them in a city that is ready to sell out the season on the hopes that a team may come to their area! Can you imagine what these people would do if the team actually came to their area, they may actually but Jerseys, hats, beers and hot dogs at the games, they may actually put some money besides their tax money into the team.

That my friend is exactly what is wrong with this picture, if viewing it from my twisted view of what Bettman is thinking!