1458 replies to this topic

[HadThomasVokounOnFortSt]

Are you really sure you want to be bashing another city's finances?

This is a Detroit board correct?

So here is a question.... which city has a STATE appointed financial oversight board that has final say on outlays of City money because they cannot balance their budget and are so deep in the hole they only see daylight at noon?

A hint... It's not Glendale

That a Detroit message board says ANYTHING about how another city handles their money is laughable.

Detroit out of money in a week

Detroit OUT OF MONEY

More Detroit financial disaster

Must be the one of 6000 Coyotes fan here. Even though the economy is s*** in Detroit, we STILL get more people to Wings games then Yotes.. NEXT!

[tjinaz]

Must be the one of 6000 Coyotes fan here. Even though the economy is s*** in Detroit, we STILL get more people to Wings games then Yotes.. NEXT!

That was very witty... you must work for the City of Detroit. AZ got hurt just as bad with the housing crisis and we don't have nearly a century of tradition to draw on or a 20year playoff run or an owner for that matter. But good job on hitting all the low hanging fruit.

Just saying before you bash someone else look in the mirror.

Edited by tjinaz, 08 June 2012 - 11:36 PM.

[Hiei]

That was very witty... you must work for the City of Detroit. AZ got hurt just as bad with the housing crisis and we don't have nearly a century of tradition to draw on or a 20year playoff run or an owner for that matter. But good job on hitting all the low hanging fruit.

Just saying before you bash someone else look in the mirror.

Michigan's taken it for years. Looks like someone's pissy that Michigan can now point at someone else and laugh.


Phoenix can suck my left nut. Even if Jameson gets the coyotes this year, how long will it last until he's gotta give up/move/declare bankruptcy?

[cusimano_brothers]

From The Globe and Mail:

...
Forbes reported Thursday that Jamison was having trouble raising enough money to close the deal and that the NHL may have to drop its asking price to $134 million US.
...

THIS is spending money you don't have.

[vladdy16]

Are you really sure you want to be bashing another city's finances?

This is a Detroit board correct?

So here is a question.... which city has a STATE appointed financial oversight board that has final say on outlays of City money because they cannot balance their budget and are so deep in the hole they only see daylight at noon?

A hint... It's not Glendale

That a Detroit message board says ANYTHING about how another city handles their money is laughable.



Which Elementary School are Detroits people in? I assume that is what happened when the State took over right?

Hello ... Kettle? Probably a good idea to make sure your yard is clean before pointing at someone else.

Detroit out of money in a week

Detroit OUT OF MONEY

More Detroit financial disaster

Detroit's woes are financial mismanagement, piss-poor government and a huge loss in tax base, all which take years to correct. They aren't throwing millions of dollars at a lost cause that's entertainment that has an immediate solution. There's a huge difference here.
And trust me, no one has more sympathy for job loss than we do. It's frustrating to see someone struggle needlessly. Phoenix and Bettman just look pigheaded at this point.

[tjinaz]

Detroit's woes are financial mismanagement, piss-poor government and a huge loss in tax base, all which take years to correct. They aren't throwing millions of dollars at a lost cause that's entertainment that has an immediate solution. There's a huge difference here.
And trust me, no one has more sympathy for job loss than we do. It's frustrating to see someone struggle needlessly. Phoenix and Bettman just look pigheaded at this point.

OK.. some one I can have a dialog with.

This is what happened in Glendale. in 2003 some local folks (Ellman) went to Glendale and said if you build it they will come. So Glendale did. They build Jobing.com and started on Westgate. Things went well. the Cabelas came in and then they got the Cardinals stadium as well. This is directly attributable to the building of Jobing, without it none of the other events occur. Since then they have had a super bowl, a couple of BCS championships Scruggs is looking like a genius. Then the economy starts to turn. Glendale is still looking good though as the revenues from Westgate and the arena are more than covering the bond debt. Problem is Gretz & co have been mismanaging the team for years and it is in dire straits. Moyes trucking business is starting to slow dramatically and he wants out of the hockey business as he is losing too much money. He goes to Balsillie and the BK goes off.

What is Glendale to do? The economy is crap, they have a newish building they still owe a ton of money and a development area highly dependent on it. So they try to stall and wait for a new owner to come in and buy the team. The NHL assures them this will happen and they will go back to a stable situation. Three years go by with the economy still pretty stagnant and they are having to pay not only the debt but 25m to the NHL in hope of getting back to where they were. This is where we are now.

The financial analysis done by independent sources shows the difference between the Jamison deal and losing the team show a net gain of 17m over 20 years to do the deal. According the the analysis presented them if the team leaves they are screwed and will have a empty building with scant events scattered around the year, this will then possibly lose them the Westgate area due to loss of traffic.

They are trying to make the informed decision and do what is best but they are in a bad spot. I have gone to the council meetings and you can see the weight of this decsion on them. Scruggs used to be the biggest supporter of the Coyotes and now she is not as she feels lied to and no longer trusts the NHL. They are in a bad spot and tough decisions need to be made. The question now is which is worse, do the deal with Jamison and hope things turn around or let the team leave and face the worst case senario and one in which they have no experience.

Michigan's taken it for years. Looks like someone's pissy that Michigan can now point at someone else and laugh.

I dont think anyone in Michigan can afford to point at anyone else at this point. Glendale's worst case senario combined with a large radioactive waste spill would have to occur before they would be even close to Detroits situation. Glendale has had a rough couple of years but the decline in Detroit has been going on for decades. They still have all their street lights and are still gaining population. Glendale is actually still an agrarian town and the farms are still working that and having a major military base on your border helps a bunch.

Edited by tjinaz, 09 June 2012 - 11:32 AM.

[Doc Holliday]

Are you really sure you want to be bashing another city's finances?

This is a Detroit board correct?

So here is a question.... which city has a STATE appointed financial oversight board that has final say on outlays of City money because they cannot balance their budget and are so deep in the hole they only see daylight at noon?

A hint... It's not Glendale

That a Detroit message board says ANYTHING about how another city handles their money is laughable.



Which Elementary School are Detroits people in? I assume that is what happened when the State took over right?

Hello ... Kettle? Probably a good idea to make sure your yard is clean before pointing at someone else.

Detroit out of money in a week

Detroit OUT OF MONEY

More Detroit financial disaster

You are the first person to ever mention Detroit's economic woes and use it as a counter point on this board.

[Shoreline]

OK.. some one I can have a dialog with.

This is what happened in Glendale. in 2003 some local folks (Ellman) went to Glendale and said if you build it they will come. So Glendale did. They build Jobing.com and started on Westgate. Things went well. the Cabelas came in and then they got the Cardinals stadium as well. This is directly attributable to the building of Jobing, without it none of the other events occur. Since then they have had a super bowl, a couple of BCS championships Scruggs is looking like a genius. Then the economy starts to turn. Glendale is still looking good though as the revenues from Westgate and the arena are more than covering the bond debt. Problem is Gretz & co have been mismanaging the team for years and it is in dire straits. Moyes trucking business is starting to slow dramatically and he wants out of the hockey business as he is losing too much money. He goes to Balsillie and the BK goes off.

What is Glendale to do? The economy is crap, they have a newish building they still owe a ton of money and a development area highly dependent on it. So they try to stall and wait for a new owner to come in and buy the team. The NHL assures them this will happen and they will go back to a stable situation. Three years go by with the economy still pretty stagnant and they are having to pay not only the debt but 25m to the NHL in hope of getting back to where they were. This is where we are now.

The financial analysis done by independent sources shows the difference between the Jamison deal and losing the team show a net gain of 17m over 20 years to do the deal. According the the analysis presented them if the team leaves they are screwed and will have a empty building with scant events scattered around the year, this will then possibly lose them the Westgate area due to loss of traffic.

They are trying to make the informed decision and do what is best but they are in a bad spot. I have gone to the council meetings and you can see the weight of this decsion on them. Scruggs used to be the biggest supporter of the Coyotes and now she is not as she feels lied to and no longer trusts the NHL. They are in a bad spot and tough decisions need to be made. The question now is which is worse, do the deal with Jamison and hope things turn around or let the team leave and face the worst case senario and one in which they have no experience.

I dont think anyone in Michigan can afford to point at anyone else at this point. Glendale's worst case senario combined with a large radioactive waste spill would have to occur before they would be even close to Detroits situation. Glendale has had a rough couple of years but the decline in Detroit has been going on for decades. They still have all their street lights and are still gaining population. Glendale is actually still an agrarian town and the farms are still working that and having a major military base on your border helps a bunch.

If Glendale was really that suitable for business, especially centred around hockey, the cash and investments would come flowing in, especially independent of taxpayer collateral.

I dunno if comparing apples to cell phones is your kind of thing, but Detroit isn't Glendale, Glendale is already in a much s***tier position as far as hockey goes having spent well into 9 figures on a duration of nothing but losses and taxpayer financed debt with obligations far into the foreseeable future, only digging that hole deeper.

While these supposed forecasts you mention surely have positive outlook of profit in the future, I'm pretty sure when the Jets first moved to Phoenix the outlook was the same if not better.

Lastly, turning this into a city bashing event won't work out very well, especially for you.

[evilmrt]

I dont think anyone in Michigan can afford to point at anyone else at this point. Glendale's worst case senario combined with a large radioactive waste spill would have to occur before they would be even close to Detroits situation. Glendale has had a rough couple of years but the decline in Detroit has been going on for decades. They still have all their street lights and are still gaining population. Glendale is actually still an agrarian town and the farms are still working that and having a major military base on your border helps a bunch.

Maybe you feel you can dismiss what those in Michigan have to say, but as an Arizona resident, I'll give it a shot.

First off, I don't know what the hell you're talking about. "Glendale is still an agrarian town". I've been to Glendale hundreds of times. Guess what, buddy? You're full of it. I'll tell you what Glendale is, though: a run-down, never-had of a town. A suburban ghetto. An area that relies on economic booms and housing growth, with no real sustainable revenue generation of its own. Detroit may be in the economic dump, but at least they once had something spectacular...and quite honestly, there is still a foundation left to rebuild on. Glendale is one of the worst places around the valley to build the damned arena. The culture in Glendale (if you can call it that) is the most unsuitable for hockey to thrive. The amount of spanish-speaking people there is very telling (they don't give a rat's ass about hockey, believe me...I've tried!), as is the economic disparity. Now if they had built the arena in the east valley? Ok...that might have worked. But they're very far from the east valley. The ONLY way that the Coyotes could have succeeded is if the economic boom had still continued. They counted on something very risky, and lost...that's why its out in a huge field (abandoned project), far removed from everything else.

You may be wondering why I don't support the Yotes staying in Glendale (lets forget the unethical funding of the team using taxpayer dollars from other unrelated funds). I love hockey, and I hate to see this continue on and on. I hate going to Yotes games where there are 3000 people. I hate when they actually have a decent team and reach the WCF and everyone is saying "what? Phoenix has a hockey team? I didn't know that!" as a big joke. And that's what the Coyotes are in Arizona to a large degree: a joke. An NHL team deserves to go where it is appreciated, and that is not here.

[cusimano_brothers]

This is about Uncle Gary going above and beyond, with every tool in his "bag of tricks", trying to keep this franchise in Glendale even though, based on the attendance figures provided by the League in the regular season, the good denizens having no interest in the Coyotes being there. If he had put as much energy in the past as he is now, other cities would still have their teams.

[HadThomasVokounOnFortSt]

That was very witty... you must work for the City of Detroit. AZ got hurt just as bad with the housing crisis and we don't have nearly a century of tradition to draw on or a 20year playoff run or an owner for that matter. But good job on hitting all the low hanging fruit.

Just saying before you bash someone else look in the mirror.

Yeah, because I work for the city when I am in Minnesota lol..

[cusimano_brothers]

From TSN:

The conservative watchdog group Goldwater Institute has filed a lawsuit seeking to invalidate the Glendale City Council's vote to approve a lease agreement for Jobing.com Arena with a potential buyer of the Phoenix Coyotes.
...

[F.Michael]

From TSN:

And the saga continues.


EDIT - does anyone know if a re-location were to take place if there's a set date it would have to be completed by?

I'm thinking if the Yotes were to move to Quebec City - we'd have to have an announcement by mid July at the latest.

Edited by F.Michael, 14 June 2012 - 06:50 AM.

[cusimano_brothers]

IF Glendale did not follow proper procedure, it will make the elected officials look foolish, even more than they already have.
I think that the longer this drags out, the more advatageous it is for the League. You would hope that their number one priority is the negotiating process for a new Collective Agreement.
I'm not even sold on Uncle Gary's brainwashing campaign regarding Greg Jamison; he's just the "flavour-of-the-year".

[Hatethedrake!]

Isn't the NHL just a little bit embarrassed over the fact that they keep trying to do business with people who have no actual money of their own to spend on Phoenix? I just laugh at all this. Goldwater would have no problem with an owner who acually puts his own money in buying the franchise and doesn't pay hmself 15 mil a year to run the arena. They move to Quebec and the season tickets are sold in 5 minutes. 10 minites later all the other available seats will be sold out as well. Plus they have people WITH THEIR OWN MONEY willing to SPEND IT on the franchise! Imagine that!

[cusimano_brothers]

From the start, this issue has hinged on one huge factor: Bettman's ego.

[vladdy16]

IF Glendale did not follow proper procedure, it will make the elected officials look foolish, even more than they already have.
I think that the longer this drags out, the more advatageous it is for the League. You would hope that their number one priority is the negotiating process for a new Collective Agreement.
I'm not even sold on Uncle Gary's brainwashing campaign regarding Greg Jamison; he's just the "flavour-of-the-year".

The judge that denied the court order stopping the vote did so on the grounds of no jurisdiction, but did agree there were several violations, hence Goldwater pursuing this.

Isn't the NHL just a little bit embarrassed over the fact that they keep trying to do business with people who have no actual money of their own to spend on Phoenix? I just laugh at all this. Goldwater would have no problem with an owner who acually puts his own money in buying the franchise and doesn't pay hmself 15 mil a year to run the arena. They move to Quebec and the season tickets are sold in 5 minutes. 10 minites later all the other available seats will be sold out as well. Plus they have people WITH THEIR OWN MONEY willing to SPEND IT on the franchise! Imagine that!

It's baffling that he's fighting tooth and nail to keep Phoenix where they are, but let Atlanta go without a second thought. I'd be very interested to understand his reasoning.
I would hope that the 29 owners are lobbying to just get a deal done already. Several self-imposed deadlines have come and gone with no acknowledgement.

[cusimano_brothers]

Sometimes, team owners do the craziest things.

[cusimano_brothers]

From TSN:

Voters in Glendale can go ahead with a referendum on a lease agreement between the city and the prospective owner of the Phoenix Coyotes after a judge invalidated one section of the ordinance.

Maricopa County Superior Court Judge Dean Fink on Tuesday asked attorneys for the city and conservative watchdog group Goldwater Institute to rewrite a section of the ordinance to show that it was not passed as an emergency measure. He is expected to issue a ruling on Goldwater's attempt to invalidate the entire ordinance soon.

Residents now have 30 days from the June 8 Glendale City Council vote to gather signatures for a public referendum on the agreement.
...

[evilmrt]

From TSN:

The only way the signatures will be gathered for a referendum is if Goldwater gathers them. The people in Glendale hardly care if the Coyotes stay or leave. If it goes to a vote, the people there will likely reject the agreement...people in Arizona have been voting down any new use of public funds in the current economic downturn 9.9 times out of 10.