How do you spot an elite goaltender

[Drummerboyyy! 0]

I have been at a loss for words and in complete amazement after reading several posts over who is and who is not an elite goal tender in these playoffs, or the regular season, or all of Hockey history. Seriously, I think the things that qualify an elite goal tender go far beyond numbers and stat sheets. Not unlike the Quarterback of a great football team, his job involves a little more than just stopping a puck. Elite goal tenders are the guys who: (Not in any particular order)

1. Win the big games when the season is on the line.

2. Have taken part in games that have created hockey history.

3. Have longevity and staying power in the league

4. Provide confidence for there team, do not get rattled, and play through adversity.

5. Created hockey history themselves.

6. Have there own style and identity.

7. Entertain night after night with big saves and sometimes huge blunders.

8. And most importantly, play in the big show. Ill bet most people including die hard hockey fans cant quote Grant Fuhr’s

save percentages but they all remember the fact that he owns Five Stanley Cup rings!

Combine these intangibles with the stats to back them up and you have an elite goaltender. While I certainly respect Goaltenders like Roy and all his numbers that he posted, it is the Hockey moments and history that he created that help elevate him to elite status. The memories he created are much more impressive than his stats. I do not have to say much more than a simple word "Montreal". It would be very boring if all that was needed to too get added to the Hall Of Fame roster was some numbers on a stat sheet. Numbers do not create fame, Winning Big games and creating memorable moments do. Which leads me into what I really want to say in the first place, how in the hell can Osgood not be considered one of the elite goalies in the league? He has earned the right to mentioned in the same sentence with the best, he has the wins to back it up, and he has been a part of many memorable hockey moments. Least of all, leading the dismal, lowly Islanders into the playoffs. That could be considered a miracle in itself.

I am just curious as to what other immeasurable contributions goalie's make to the game that elevate them above their peers? Your Thoughts?

Edited May 22, 2009 by Drummerboyyy!

[Booster313 138]

To me the biggest factor is consistency. There have been plenty of "hot"goalies that don't stand the test of time.

[Drummerboyyy! 0]

To me the biggest factor is consistency. There have been plenty of "hot"goalies that don't stand the test of time.

Jean-Sebastien Giguere is the first one that I think about. Where is he now? Elite was certainly thrown around in unison with his name many nights.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Jean-Sebastien Giguere is the first one that I think about. Where is he now? Elite was certainly thrown around in unison with his name many nights.

Let's keep this train a rollin'.

Basically, if you've ever beaten the Wings, you suck and you just don't know it yet.

[Drummerboyyy! 0]

[quote name='Heroes of Hockeytown' date='May 21, 2009 - 09:20PM' post='1670723'

Basically, if you've ever beaten the Wings, you suck and you just don't know it yet.

Now that is funny! Ill bet Artūrs Irbe is thinking the same thing right now! He thanks god every night that he lost!

Edited May 22, 2009 by Drummerboyyy!

[Booster313 138]

The problem with most "great" players goalies included is you don't know how great they really are until towards the end of their careers. Chicago didn't know what they had in Domink Hasek and so they decided to trade him away and keep Belfour instead. Although Belfour is no slouch I am sure in hindsight they would have been better served with Hasek in net.

Another example, 4 years ago everyone was questioning the Sharks for trading Toskala and keeping Nabby. It looks like they got the last laugh as Nabby has been consistantly good and Toskala isn't even a clear cut starter anymore.

Finally look at Nashville and the Jackets...both teams have ushered in several young hot goalies only to trade them a year later when their streak ends. Will the same happen again next year? Only time will tell.

[mjlegend 155]

Exactly, HoH, with the possible exception of Roy.

Who was the Kings goalie who beat us in 2001? Garon? Not exactly a big name stopper...

EDITED: Felix Potvin started in 2001. Now he's a hermit.

Edited May 22, 2009 by mjlegend

[Booster313 138]

BTW Drummerboy,

Welcome to the site and good first thread!

[WingsFan2008 0]

Brodeur

Osgood

[Booster313 138]

Exactly, HoH, with the possible exception of Roy.

Who was the Kings goalie who beat us in 2001? Garon? Not exactly a big name stopper...

How about Brodeur in 95?

[SDavis35 140]

1. Win the big games when the season is on the line.

2. Have taken part in games that have created hockey history.

3. Have longevity and staying power in the league

4. Provide confidence for there team, do not get rattled, and play through adversity.

5. Created hockey history themselves.

6. Have there own style and identity.

7. Entertain night after night with big saves and sometimes huge blunders.

8. And most importantly, play in the big show. Ill bet most people including die hard hockey fans cant quote Grant Fuhr’s

save percentages but they all remember the fact that he owns Five Stanley Cup rings!

Bolded are the most important to being considered an elite goaltender in my books. The italicized are the additional requirements to be even better. Some tenders would have it, others can be elite without being inidividually different. I feel Ozzie has the Bold credentials, and I feel his style is his own. Brodeur pretty much has everything

[Booster313 138]

If Ozzie's career had ended in 2001 I think you would have to question his inclusion on anyones list of "elite" all-time goalies. However it didn't he went out and played three respectable seasons, albeit not difference makers, then came home. Since he's been here he has proved that not only is he a game clutch goalie with elite statistics but he is a Red Wing through and through.

[Drummerboyyy! 0]

BTW Drummerboy,

Welcome to the site and good first thread!

Thanks, I have been a fan of the game for many years now. After reading that idiotic post by PuckStopsHere my blood was boiling! It has Been a long time since read post so, Hmm, beyond clueless. Well, it inspired me to post. I never have been a huge Osgood fan but his career speaks for itself. His contributions to the game itself rise above his stats.

[mjlegend 155]

How about Brodeur in 95?

OK, I guess Brodeur too.

1991 Vince Riendeau

1992 Ed Belfour

1993 Felix

1994 Arturs Irbe

1995 Martin Brodeur

1996 Patrick Roy

1999 Patrick Roy

2000 Patrick Roy

2001 Felix

2003 Giggy

2004 Kipper

2006 Giggy

Of those, only Brodeur and Roy can truly be classified as elite goaltenders, IMO.

[Drummerboyyy! 0]

If Ozzie's career had ended in 2001 I think you would have to question his inclusion on anyones list of "elite" all-time goalies. However it didn't he went out and played three respectable seasons, albeit not difference makers, then came home. Since he's been here he has proved that not only is he a game clutch goalie with elite statistics but he is a Red Wing through and through.

Amazing is the fact that he came back to a team that traded him away. Sat on the bench behind Hasek. (Note: Haseks my favorite goal tender) Came in to the playoffs in 2008 ready to go after knowing he was not the man to start and just dominated. Even the Dominator had to be impressed. The numbers do back that statement up. That shows mental toughness a lot of flash in the pan goaltenders do not have.

[Booster313 138]

OK, I guess Brodeur too.

1991 Vince Riendeau

1992 Ed Belfour

1993 Felix

1994 Arturs Irbe

1995 Martin Brodeur

1996 Patrick Roy

1999 Patrick Roy

2000 Patrick Roy

2001 Felix

2003 Giggy

2004 Kipper

2006 Giggy

Of those, only Brodeur and Roy can truly be classified as elite goaltenders, IMO.

You guess...LOL

Just admit you forgot about him!

[Drummerboyyy! 0]

OK, I guess Brodeur too.

1991 Vince Riendeau

1992 Ed Belfour

1993 Felix

1994 Arturs Irbe

1995 Martin Brodeur

1996 Patrick Roy

1999 Patrick Roy

2000 Patrick Roy

2001 Felix

2003 Giggy

2004 Kipper

2006 Giggy

Of those, only Brodeur and Roy can truly be classified as elite goaltenders, IMO.

Hasek carried Buffalo on his back. In my opinion, qualifies as elite? Possibly

Edited May 22, 2009 by Drummerboyyy!

[Konnan511 1,736]

Great first post! One suggestion, work on the grammer, I know a lot of people here don't care about it, but it makes long posts easier to read.

But again, that was one of the best frist posts I have seen in a while, hope you stick around and become a mainstay here!

[Konnan511 1,736]

Amazing is the fact that he came back to a team that traded him away. Sat on the bench behind Hasek. (Note: Haseks my favorite goal tender) Came in to the playoffs in 2008 ready to go after knowing he was not the man to start and just dominated. Even the Dominator had to be impressed. The numbers do back that statement up. That shows mental toughness a lot of flash in the pan goaltenders do not have.

Wings never traded him...technically. He was put on waivers after we got Hasek and Islanders picked him up in the waiver draft.

I thought Ozzie made the playoffs every year away from Detroit? He did decent away from Detroit.

[mjlegend 155]

You guess...LOL

Just admit you forgot about him!

I'm never admitting failure!

(But between you and me, I failed to spot him)

Hasek carried Buffalo on his back. In my opinion, qualifies as elite? Possibly

We never played Hasek. My section of the thread was reserved for goalies who have beaten the Wings in the playoffs.

Of the last 20 years, I would say only Hasek, Roy and Brodeur can qualify as truly elite goaltenders. There's no doubt all will go into the Hall. From there, there's a drop-off to guys like Osgood, Cujo and Belfour. Maybe you include Barrasso, Richter or Vanbiesbrouck. When you get down to Vernon, Moog and Sean Burke, you start to run out of the elite guys...

I'm uncertain as to whether Luongo, Fleury, Nabokov and Kiprusoff are elite but if their careers were to end today, I think you can't include them on the elite list.

[Drummerboyyy! 0]

Wings never traded him...technically. He was put on waivers after we got Hasek and Islanders picked him up in the waiver draft.

I thought Ozzie made the playoffs every year away from Detroit? He did decent away from Detroit.

Thanks, grammar is one of my weaknesses. My wife says the same thing. Any how!

Thanks for the correction! You are right. I forgot the Wings put him on waivers. It just makes Osgood's story more interesting.

He did. He also proved he could play on a team that was less talented.

[Drummerboyyy! 0]

Pittsburg 7, Carolina 4

So much for elite goaltending!

Edited May 22, 2009 by Drummerboyyy!

[Konnan511 1,736]

Pittsburg 7, Carolina 4

So much for elite goaltending!

I know right! I don't know what is worse, giving up 6 goals at an away rink or giving up 4 at a home rink. (Not counting the EN as one given up by Ward.)

[denverswingsfan 0]

How do you spot a elite goalie, that's easy.

You put their stats on a piece of paper without any ID to the player and see if it is considered elite.

Believe me, Ozzie got a bad rep on a few goals a decade ago and it has been used against him since. That wont be forever though.

Osgood has been the most successful goalie on the dominant team of his time. His place in history is set in the fact that he has made it to the top ten of both win categories as well as has won multiple cups.

He has records to his name, both team and individual.

And he isn't done yet.

He will be remembered as a major part of the success, not as a burden.

His name will come up when ever the concept of a playoff switch come up

I wouldn't be surprised if #30 doesn't even hang in the rafters some day.

As for what the others think.

eh, they are sheep

[Drummerboyyy! 0]

"He will be remembered as a major part of the success, not as a burden."

Great point! He is part of the success. An important part. This fact is overlooked by many. He is one part of a team that keeps winning. It is amazes me that some think they win in spite of his abilities. He has proven he can elevate his part when needed. Again, most goalies can not do this. That is part of what makes average goalies average and elevates the rest to elite.