Conn Smythe winner

[b.shanafan14 733]

I've been thinking a lot this week, with the Stanley Cup finals nearing and the looks of a rematch looking more and more likely: what grounds constitute the winning of a Conn Smythe trophy as the most valuable playoff performer?

Personally, I have always believed that in order to become the playoff MVP, you have to both win the Stanley Cup and out perform every other player, especially at your position, throughout the playoffs, which includes the Finals. If one is to do the latter without the former, their numbers must be grossly out of reach with similar competition and adversity. Also, play in the Finals when conference meets conference for the first time must be a continuation or improvement on play in the previous rounds, not a drop off. And most of all, without that player, it is known that the team would not have achieved the prize.

When J.S.Gigere won the Conn Smythe without the cup in 2003, inflated pads aside, he had grossly out performed the competition to the point where everyone knew without him, the Ducks wouldn't have lasted through Round 1 vs. the Red Wings, let alone through 7 games of a Stanley Cup Final.

Having said that, my question to the board is this: give the ability of Malkin and Crosby to dominate the weaker, severely less defensive Eastern Conference, if they don't win the Stanley Cup this post-season, does either merit the winning of the Conn Smythe trophy? How crucial to voting is the championship round? Who are the Red Wings candidates who fit the above description and is it enough to make a cup win, a Smythe win?

We all know the league has a chubby for Crosby, and whether he is the highest scoring player on his team or not won't matter if the Penguins win the cup. Also, I believe if they win the cup, one of their players deserves the Conn Smythe. Having said that, the Eastern Conference is nothing like the Western in competition level, and if we see a similar drop in production from the two Penguins stars as we saw last Finals, I don't see how they will win the Cup or the Smythe. What are the chances the league still presents one with the Smythe as a loser?

My candidates for Conn Smythe from the Red Wings are Osgood, Lidstrom, Franzen, and Zetterberg, in that order. Apologies for the long-winded explanation.

[Cern 0]

I'm fine with either Crosby or Malkin getting the Conn Smythe. The Penguins are Two Offensive Powerhouses Featuring Special Guests, individual awards are fittingly appropriate. We'll keep our team award.

[b.shanafan14 733]

I'm fine with either Crosby or Malkin getting the Conn Smythe. The Penguins are Two Offensive Powerhouses Featuring Special Guests, individual awards are fittingly appropriate. We'll keep our team award.

I agree with you on the individual award being a footnote in the greater prize. I was just wondering how others felt about the award. I personally believe that if you are to win the Smythe without the cup, its something that, at least for me, the having both Malkin and Crosby on a team, one negates the other in the category of "we are here because he took us here" spirit of the award. And the "we are here because he took us here" is always going to be amplified by the "here", being the runner-up or the Champion. Thus my personal importance in winning the Cup.

[TheOwl 77]

I completely agree with everything you've said Shanafan. If the Penguins win the cup *throws up in mouth*give it to Crosby. But if they don't, he doesn't even deserve a nomination. The East is weak defensively, and certainly the teams the Penguins have played to this point. Maybe if the Penguins knocked out New Jersey and Boston, maybe I'd be impressed with what Crosby and Malkin have been doing. But they've been playing defensively weak teams, with goalies giving poor performances.

If Detroit wins the cup, Crosby should only win the Conn Symthe if the series goes 7 games, and he out-scores every other forward in the series. Anything short of that, the Wing with the most points should win it, most likely Franzen or Zetterberg. Or if Lidstrom shuts down Crosby and Malkin, give it to him. The NHL will be a joke if they give it to Crosby and they lose the Cup. They shouldn't risk it.

[Echolalia 2,961]

I don't think I would care if Crosby or Malkin received the award. They are playing phenomenally right now, regardless of who they are versing. If they can continue those numbers against the Wings, sure, give 'em the Conn Smythe to share, regardless of who wins the Cup. They mean more to their team than any two players on the Wings mean to Detroit. But that comes with having 9 top-six forwards who all know their roles as well as the best defensive lineup in the game, which is what wins Stanley Cups in the end; not two superstars on an otherwise average team.

[TheUkrainian 49]

Make a new trophy for Crosby. "3rd times the charm...maybe"

[Gutierrez 7]

I think the championship roudn is very crucial, mostly because imo the east is pretty weak. I agree with theowl that if Pitt had beaten New Jersey or Boston maybe I'd be more pressed to give it to either one of them. Right now I believe Osgood is at the top of the list for Conn Smythe candidates on our team. We can win without Datsyuk, Lidstrom for a game, etc. But imagine if Chris Osgood went out? I think we'd be in serious trouble. He is the one guy we cannot afford to lose on this team.

[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

You know what, I was thinking about this too and what about giving them Co-MVPs?

They are definitely the key to that team as their defense sucks and after those two the offense is s*** other than when they play with one of the superstars.

Detroit on the other hand has had so many key plays from everyone that its hard to say that someone has definitely been their MVP. Having said that, Franzen has been our most clutch player and deserves the award from a Detroit perspective.

[hockeysattva 8]

This is really getting ahead of everything, but after its said and done there won't be anything to speculate about. So, both Crosby and Malkin are in position to get high in single season playoff records (maybe) with a good performance through the finals (should the Pens make it). Though, to be honest, they haven't been spectacular above and beyond by any means (example, Mario Lemieux C 1991-1992 15 games 16 g 18 a 34p), but have clearly been good.

It all comes down to play in the finals. If they can't deliver in the finals, they can't win a Smyth. If one does, I'm sure we'll hear the arguement, but if the Pens don't win, they don't win a Smyth either. I really just don't see a 12 point performance from either of them in the finals.

Early forecasts for the Wings would be much less fruitful. Though, if Osgood's play goes to the next level (ie. a shutout or two in the finals) he may end up the best candidate.

The wings have 15 players with a playoff goal, 19 with a playoff point (6 in double digits), and 15 with a plus (only two with a minus Chelios and Maltby). That kind of depth makes it hard to say "_____ is really carrying the team." That being said Franzen and Cleary both have 2 game winning goals.

Conversly, the Pens have 16 players with a goal, 20 with a point (6 in double digits), and 13 with a plus ( 8 with a minus). So, its not to say they don't have depth, but 28 and 26 points respectively sticks out more than 19 or 18 does...

[Vladiator 116]

If the Wings can pull up another Stanley I really don't think that Ozzie could be easily be passed over. Yeah Malkin and Crosby have been putting up the points, but Ozzie has been so reliable and consistent.

[toby91_ca 620]

If the Pens win the cup, Crosby or Malkin will win the Smythe, with Crosby currently being the front runner, even though Malkin has the slight point edge....the Finals would likely decide who wins.

If the Pens lose, I think it is next to impossible for either to win the award. I can't remember the last time a non-goaltender from a non-winning team won the award, not sure if it's ever happened....can't be bothered to check.

Even if one is way, way, way ahead of the competition in terms of scoring, it probably still won't happen and I doubt either one will be that far ahead of the competition. Crosby and Malkin have separated themselves from the pack, but they haven't separated themselves from each other yet and in all likelihood won't.

[gcom007 1,465]

If we win, it's a tossup between Osgood and Franzen. My money's on Osgood. Lidstrom most certainly is 3rd. I don't think Z has a chance in hell. Half his goals are empty netters. Crosby or Malkin will get it before him even if we win.

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

zetterberg! - "all around greatness"

after he shuts down malkin and crosby again in the cup finals and puts points on the board at the same time, he'll take home the hardware again. or lidstrom for the exact same reasons as zetterberg. like everyone knows, it's not hard to rack up points against the defense in the east.

corvo - pitkanen (Canes)

coburn - timonen (Philly)

green - poti (Caps)

Detroits defense is better than the best 6 d-men from the other 3 teams the pens beat so far in the playoffs. the pens offense hasn't been tested with good D.

MALKIN FEARS LIDSTROM

[Another Day 0]

If we win, it's a tossup between Osgood and Franzen. My money's on Osgood. Lidstrom most certainly is 3rd. I don't think Z has a chance in hell. Half his goals are empty netters. Crosby or Malkin will get it before him even if we win.

While I may not necissarily think that Osgood is OUR MVP this playoffs, it is definitely between him, crosby and malkin for the Conn Smythe. No Wings player have simply put up numbers enough to compete with them this year.

[nkuehnl 0]

The Conn Smythe ought really go to a player from the winning team. As well as Giguere played, I really can't justify giving him that trophy over Brodeur, who was equally impressive and ultimately won the duel between the two. The hype factor skewed that win towards Giguere.

The criteria should be MVP of the team that wins. Otherwise, I could just as easily say that Ovechkin should be a contender for being the best player on his team, by and far. Crosby and Malkin can put up a ridiculous amount of points, but if they can't turn that into a Cup winning performance, then I don't think they're ready to win the Conn Smythe. I would feel the same way if we were talking about an inverse situation with Osgood or any other player on our team.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Crosby has already won it.

Bettman will probably forget all about the Cup, and skate off the ice hand in hand with Crosby, after awarding him the Conn Smythe.

[Dabura 12,207]

I'm pretty sure it's going to take a lot to dissuade the Powers That Be from giving it to Crosby or Malkin, even if the Wings take the Cup.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Dabura

[Grim 5]

They should cease the practice of awarding the Conn Smythe to a non-winner immediately. To have a post-Cup parade without the team's MVP present and recognized is an utter abomination.

Whats next... a Conn Smythe winner from a non-Cup final participant?? The voters should democratically pick their winner, and the top vote-getter belonging to the winning team gets the nod regardless.

[robat 13]

woops

Edited May 26, 2009 by robat

[Konnan511 1,736]

I've been thinking a lot this week....

Sorry i stopped reading here after I saw how long your post was.

My candidates for Conn Smythe from the Red Wings are Osgood, Lidstrom, Franzen, and Zetterberg, in that order. Apologies for the long-winded explanation.

I skimmed down to this because it's the part I mostly cared about and since your list is about the same as mine I didn't feel the need to go back and read what you posted, because, I probably would have agreed with what you said!

PS. Don't feel bad about writing a long well thought out post, it's better than if your opening post would have been:

Ozzie, Lids, Mule, Zata

Thoughts?

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

I can't remember the last time a non-goaltender from a non-winning team won the award, not sure if it's ever happened....can't be bothered to check.

Reggie Leach of the 1976 Flyers is the only skater from a losing team to win it, when he scored an NHL record 19 playoff goals in 16 games (since matched by Jari Kurri). The Canadiens defeated the Flyers in a sweep in the Finals.