This time it will be different

[timothy1997 0]

The funny thing about that is, both things could happen.

Last year the Pens outplayed Detroit one game out of six.

So far this time it's been competitive 2 out of 2. If this keeps up, yeah the Pens could get swept and it would have been different from a competitive standpoint. Do you not seriously get this? I thought I was being pretty clear and simple.

Maybe not.

A win is a win and a loss is a loss. Does it really matter if its 7-0 or 2-1...nope!! still a loss. Pens still find themselves having to hold serve at home and win both games in order for them to have any shot in these finals.

Series is 2-0 in favor of wings regardless of how you feel the pens have played.

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

Yeah, you're right -- it's that Western Conference superiority that causes the puck to hit the post 3 times, 0.0005 inches from going inside the basket. I should've known. Pure defensive skill on the part of the Detroit players, showing what a real defensive team can do.

And yeah, all they did was yank my reasoned post about Zetterberg, no biggie (rolls eyes).

well ozzies position cause for a wider shot....so....yeah you could say our play is making it hard for the pens to win.

[BewareThePenguin 1]

lol at how you say Abdelkader controlling the puck and shooting is 'luck'. The fact that fleury was incapable of making the save is luck? What a delusional point of view you are displaying. i think you need to reassess your definition of the word luck. If fleury is not playing well, that has nothing to do with the wings being lucky, it has to do with fleury playing badly.

Of course you attribute the shots off the post as 'luck' as well. How is hitting the post bad luck? They didnt shoot the puck properly, they missed their target.... no different than missing the goal all together.

There is no magical force controlling this series.

Lastly, what on earth are you trying to argue here? This is a different year than last year, and yes of course if you break down every single play it is a different series. I wish you would stop making these highly irrelevant threads. Honestly, what difference does it make if the pens are playing slightly different than they did a year ago. Why are you still trying arguing an inarguable point?

No, what I said was, Applesauce was lucky in that the puck flew out of the air right to him -- regardless of the skill shown in controlling it down to the ice. Likewise, Staal just happened to have his back turned to him, or he blocks the shot. Likewise, Fleury had no idea where the puck was, kind of like what happened to Ward in the last series.

A lot of things had to go right for Detroit on that play.

And again, you seriously gonna tell me his shot last night was a routine save that should've been made?

C'mon.

[mjlegend 155]

[BewareThePenguin 1]

well ozzies position cause for a wider shot....so....yeah you could say our play is making it hard for the pens to win.

Osgood was beaten on those and out of position. In this case an orange traffic cone in front of the net would've provided the same defense. Only luck prevented those from going into the net.

[sWINGED 0]

why haven't the pens learned how to deal with the wings defensive system? second time around. hello, mcfly!

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

for the pens fans that were not going to make excuses when they lose games there sure are alot coming out.

[BewareThePenguin 1]

Series is 2-0 in favor of wings regardless of how you feel the pens have played.

I never argued the point.

There are two ways of looking at things from here. On your side, you could say the Wings are up 2-0 and have yet to play their best hockey. I totally understand that opinion.

From the Pens' fans side though, you could say that we've lost two close games and Crosby has yet to score a single goal. Imagine the difference if he can get a couple of those to get in there finally. So how the team has played does play into this a little.

I don't think most of you are getting the point here, so I'm not going to waste much more cyber breath repeating. Once again though -- I'm not trying to take away from what Detroit's done so far, or go into that whole "deserve to win" thing which is a complete waste of time. I'm merely saying that things have gone differently from a competitive standpoint than last year, which makes for a more compelling series. If you can't understand that, I can't help you any more.

[timothy1997 0]

Before I begin, some people on this forum make me embarrassed to be a wings fan.

This series appears to be over but it's not until the Cup is in our (hopefully) hands. While we aren't Washington you can't forget that Pittsburgh came back from that series to win it. So stop rubbing it in until it happens.

And stop calling the poor man a troll. He's one of the more reasonable Pens fans and all he's doing is stating his opinion. You're allowed to disagree without being an idiot.

Finally, to the OP and every other Pens fan:

Pittsburgh is a good team. Detroit is a better team.

Detroit has been getting lucky breaks, yes, but so has Pittsburgh. It's part of the game. The better team will find a way to win.

We are NOT being outplayed by the Pens by any means. I will admit that the play has been equal at the least but you have only had a couple of really solid chances; a lot of your shots are weak, (I respect how you think we've had weak goals but you take them how you get em - you don't see us whining about Stuart scoring your only goal yesterday), and your play in our offensive end does not even compare to our play in your offensive end - save a couple of really good efforts.

And please... a win is a win. Leave it at that. Stop making up excuses. "Detroit got lucky" is possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard. That's a ******* slap to the face. Detroit wins for a reason. We haven't been the winningest team for 82 games for the past 17 seasons because of "luck."

He started things with his deleted topic of "losing respect for zetterberg" based on Z's play of "puck cover-ups". He wanted attention and got it. When he posted this topic first last friday, people took this topic seriously saying "solid post". If anything he is an embarrassment to pens fans.

Absolutely this series is far from over. But its hard not to look at this and beg the question after 2 games "whatz different from last year". We are still up 2-0 heading to Pittsburgh and the pens still have no answer for detroit's d. Pens have to hold serve in the next two games or it appears likely that the wings will defend their cup again.

[Vladifan 680]

Yeah, you're right -- it's that Western Conference superiority that causes the puck to hit the post 3 times, 0.0005 inches from going inside the basket. I should've known. Pure defensive skill on the part of the Detroit players, showing what a real defensive team can do.

And yeah, all they did was yank my reasoned post about Zetterberg, no biggie (rolls eyes).

SCOREBOARD

[softshoes 83]

Before I begin, some people on this forum make me embarrassed to be a wings fan.

This series appears to be over but it's not until the Cup is in our (hopefully) hands. While we aren't Washington you can't forget that Pittsburgh came back from that series to win it. So stop rubbing it in until it happens.

And stop calling the poor man a troll. He's one of the more reasonable Pens fans and all he's doing is stating his opinion. You're allowed to disagree without being an idiot.

Finally, to the OP and every other Pens fan:

Pittsburgh is a good team. Detroit is a better team.

Detroit has been getting lucky breaks, yes, but so has Pittsburgh. It's part of the game. The better team will find a way to win.

We are NOT being outplayed by the Pens by any means. I will admit that the play has been equal at the least but you have only had a couple of really solid chances; a lot of your shots are weak, (I respect how you think we've had weak goals but you take them how you get em - you don't see us whining about Stuart scoring your only goal yesterday), and your play in our offensive end does not even compare to our play in your offensive end - save a couple of really good efforts.

And please... a win is a win. Leave it at that. Stop making up excuses. "Detroit got lucky" is possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard. That's a ******* slap to the face. Detroit wins for a reason. We haven't been the winningest team for 82 games for the past 17 seasons because of "luck."

I'm not embarrassed to be a fan. This mutt has run this lucky/unlucky point into the ground. For a rival board I think he has been treated pretty damn good. As card players are apt to say: losers cry while winners holler deal. He's crying and I'm screaming deal.

[timothy1997 0]

No, what I said was, Applesauce was lucky in that the puck flew out of the air right to him -- regardless of the skill shown in controlling it down to the ice. Likewise, Staal just happened to have his back turned to him, or he blocks the shot. Likewise, Fleury had no idea where the puck was, kind of like what happened to Ward in the last series.

A lot of things had to go right for Detroit on that play.

And again, you seriously gonna tell me his shot last night was a routine save that should've been made?

C'mon.

Down 2-1 in the 3rd with the game still up the air, yeah you need to make that save. To keep your team in it.

Goaltending has been the difference so far in this series. Osgood is better than last year and fleury is worst...despite what the skaters have produced.

[Frozen-Man 144]

Yeah, you're right -- it's that Western Conference superiority that causes the puck to hit the post 3 times, 0.0005 inches from going inside the basket. I should've known. Pure defensive skill on the part of the Detroit players, showing what a real defensive team can do.

And yeah, all they did was yank my reasoned post about Zetterberg, no biggie (rolls eyes).

Nice, way to dodge my points while stating nothing. The point is it is pathetic to act as if everything has gone the Pens way and only bad stuff has happened to the Pens. How is it Detroit's fault or bad luck that Guerin can't score on a fairly open net? My point is not that the 1/2 inch is important it is that he should have shot it better and it wouldn't have been an issue in the first play.

Again, tell me anything that is luckier than having an opponent's Hart trophy candidate, and reigning Selke winner out of the first two games (and likely the third). The play of the game is not luck but that certainly is. Please explain to me why you are not saying that the Wings should have won bigger except the Pens were so lucky that Dats was out.

Finally, the Wings have outscored the Pens 32-19 in their last 10 meetings and have a record of 7-2-1 (and one of the losses took the Pens till triple overtime) so yeah I'd say they are better and better defensively, but go ahead and say that it is because of luck.

[Firehawk 305]

for the pens fans that were not going to make excuses when they lose games there sure are alot coming out.

QFT Ain't that the truth?

IT's ok. I expect Pit to win tomorrow...then we will hear how they're going to come back and win the series for 2 days, then we'll smack them again and win the cup here on Saturday.

[timothy1997 0]

QFT Ain't that the truth?

IT's ok. I expect Pit to win tomorrow...then we will hear how they're going to come back and win the series for 2 days, then we'll smack them again and win the cup here on Saturday.

at home like we should have won last year.

[BewareThePenguin 1]

Down 2-1 in the 3rd with the game still up the air, yeah you need to make that save. To keep your team in it.

Goaltending has been the difference so far in this series. Osgood is better than last year and fleury is worst...despite what the skaters have produced.

Bingo.

[timothy1997 0]

Bingo.

thats why the wings are up in the series and osgood is front runner for conn smythe

Pens have to man up and win both games in mellon or lose the cup again

[Frozen-Man 144]

Only luck prevented those from going into the net.

No the post did (well that and the fact that since the shot hit the post it wasn't actually shot on the net and could not have possibly gone in the net). What makes you lose credibility is that you ignore reality THE SHOT WAS NOT ON NET and Ozgood slid over to get into a position to make the shot much more difficult. You take things that did not happen and say if they had happened and then take things that did happen and say if they had not happened the result would have been different. Had the Net been bigger the puck would have gone in too but that is not the reality the reality is the Pens shot and hit the post not then inside of the net.

From the Pens' fans side though, you could say that we've lost two close games and Crosby has yet to score a single goal. Imagine the difference if he can get a couple of those to get in there finally. So how the team has played does play into this a little.

I have never heard anyone on a hockey forum talk so much about imagining and luck and what if and what if not . . . I have an idea imagine if the Detroit players rode dragons and had cannons to shot the pucks out of . . . wow we would really be winning then. See my point yeah the Pens would be doing better if reality was other than what it is (assuming all those things in the Pens favor and all the negatives for Detroit) BUT it's not that's what makes it reality instead of fantasy. It reminds me of when I was little playing hockey on Nintendo if I started losing I would just turn the game off and ta da the score is zero to zero again and I'm not losing any more.

I'm not trying to take away from what Detroit's done so far, or go into that whole "deserve to win" thing which is a complete waste of time.

You may not be trying to but that is not the way you are acting. You are calling most of what the Wings have done luck (which removes the skill and makes it a game of chance). If you are taking a test and get a 100% and I say oh you were just lucky, then yeah I am taking away what you have done.

P.S. I notice you never discuss the luck of the Pens only goal coming from Stewie accidentally batting it backwards out of the air.

[LeftWinger 4,949]

His goal last night was no different than Saturday's -- the puck flew right to him somehow and he was able to control it down to the ice and shoot. That's as much luck as skill. But that's not even the main point. Are you seriously going to tell me the blind shot he put up should've been anything but a routine save? C'mon now.

Again -- this time the Wings needed some breaks to win. Last year they didn't. My point proven again.

if that is your case, then I guess Malkin needed Stuart to put the puck in his own net to get his only goal in two games then, right?

Wings didn't need breaks last year? So the eventual game winner that Fluery s*** into the net wasn't a break? The fact that Hossa missed by inches almost tying it up at the end of game 6 wasn't a break? Dude, put the bud lite down and grab a real beer. These type of games by two great teams are won and lost from bad breaks or good breaks. One could argue both of Pits goals this year were the result of bad breaks for the Wings, giveaway (very rare) in game one, Stuart putting the puck into our net, it happens, bot not often. Turn those around and its two good breaks for you. Take those away and you are going home being shutout in the first two games AGAIN. You got to be lucky to be good. Don't worry, Crosbaby will have his multi point game, Bettman wil make sure of that (just like he made sure the instigator was recinded on Malkin so he doesn't get the suspension.) Your team will have their good breaks, you already have one, and you will probably win a game at home. This series ends at 5.

Edited June 1, 2009 by LeftWinger

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

Michael Farber is a genius! SI dot com.

[WingZNut13 99]

Would there be any one in this thread be willing to suppor Ozzie in his quest for the Con Smythe? This guy has stepped up again. He sucked it up huge in the regular seaso. BUT LOOK AT HIM NOW!! He is playing like a brick wal. I think that if the Red Wings win this series, which they are probably going to, Ozzie should be the unanimous choice for the Con Smythe.

To this very moment as I type this post, I am still shocked at the turn around Ozzie has shown in the playoffs.

[wings1wings1 3]

No, what I said was, Applesauce was lucky in that the puck flew out of the air right to him -- regardless of the skill shown in controlling it down to the ice. Likewise, Staal just happened to have his back turned to him, or he blocks the shot. Likewise, Fleury had no idea where the puck was, kind of like what happened to Ward in the last series.

A lot of things had to go right for Detroit on that play.

And again, you seriously gonna tell me his shot last night was a routine save that should've been made?

C'mon.

If you watch the replay (in high definition), Abbie's shot resembles a changeup or a curveball in baseball. Might be due to the fact the puck was bouncing and spinning when he golfed at it. So I disagree that this was a "routine save". The announcers were quick to dismiss it because it's considered embarrassing when someone who began the month in the AHL scores two almost identical goals on a SCF goalkeeper. But had Crosby scored it, it would have been considered "sensational". Gator was one of the Griffins' most prolific scorers, especially in the playoffs. It's why he was called up. They stuck him on the 4th line because of his inexperience and size and gave him a grinders role to get his wheels going. But, make no mistake, he can and will score goals going forward. Part of the "mystique" that's beating your team right now is all these aces in the hole we have that no one on opposing teams understands or takes seriously. Guys like Helm and Abbie aren't lucky. They are overripe and we're picking them now. You can't double cover everyone on our team. You leave open Sammy or Flipper or Cleary or Huds or Stuart or E or Kronner (etc, etc) ... and we'll score. How do you defend that?? Ken Hitchcock, in his presser following the Blue Jackets ouster in the 1st round, referred to it as "Death by a thousand cuts."

[timothy1997 0]

If you watch the replay (in high definition), Abbie's shot resembles a changeup or a curveball in baseball. Might be due to the fact the puck was bouncing and spinning when he golfed at it. So I disagree that this was a "routine save". The announcers were quick to dismiss it because it's considered embarrassing when someone who began the month in the AHL scores two almost identical goals on a SCF goalkeeper. But had Crosby scored it, it would have been considered "sensational". Gator was one of the Griffins' most prolific scorers, especially in the playoffs. It's why he was called up. They stuck him on the 4th line because of his inexperience and size and gave him a grinders role to get his wheels going. But, make no mistake, he can and will score goals going forward. Part of the "mystique" that's beating your team right now is all these aces in the hole we have that no one on opposing teams understands or takes seriously. Guys like Helm and Abbie aren't lucky. They are overripe and we're picking them now. You can't double cover everyone on our team. You leave open Sammy or Flipper or Cleary or Huds or Stuart or E or Kronner (etc, etc) ... and we'll score. How do you defend that?? Ken Hitchcock, in his presser following the Blue Jackets ouster in the 1st round, referred to it as "Death by a thousand cuts."

its the wings contiuatiuon of getting players like helm and abdelkader to fill the cupboard is EXACTLY why the wings have been very good for a long time. Look at where zetterberg and datsyuk were taken in the NHL draft.

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

The Pens need to put an enforcer in their lineup.

Anaheim didn't and look what happened to them.

If that doesn't work, then Lemieux should suit up for them in game 6. I don't know if there are any rules against that?

[Snazzy 0]

Zetterberg

Okay, tell us how you really feel.