A question about the "flow" of a game

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Okay, so the *****-fest continues over on the Pens board about the officiating.

It's gotten to the point now they say the referees are "ruining" the game by slowing it down so much. My guess is they are talking about the Wings ability to shut down other team's offense.

Apparently, Pens fans believe that the calls aren't being made, which has merit as there have only been a handful of total penalties (melee aside) in the 1st 2 games.

However, if the refs didn't put the whistles away and called everything, Pens fans seem to think the Wings would get 3 or 4 power plays and the Pens would get 10-14 power plays per game.

My question is: What do you think about the flow of the games played (1 & 2). Do you think the games have been fast-paced and exciting. Or do you think they have been slowed to a crawl via the "obstructionist" tactics of the Wings. Would an endless stream of players hitting the penalty box be good for the flow of the game? Pens fans are convinced in some absurd reality, that calling everything would make the game flow better and showcase the skill. I'm saying WTF? I'm starting to question the entire Pens fan population now as IMO, it's a fundamental fact that whistles disrupt flow.

[Jake Ryan 1]

The Wings only have one style of hockey they cannot adapt to, and that's goon hockey. The Ducks measure up well against the Wings because of that style of play. If the penguins play run and gun and the refs are going to call the games loosely, the Wings will get away with as much stickwork in the neutral zone as the whistles allow. If the refs call the game tight, the Wings will back check harder and open up their offense. The Pens are delusional if they think they are getting jobbed out of calls. Their players blatantly hook Hossa, Zetterberg, Filppula, and Franzen all over the ice. The refs could easily call 10 penalties a game on the Penguins if they were calling the game tight. 2-3 power plays for each team per game is just the kind of game I like to see. The "FLOW" of the game seems perfect with that.

[shorthanded 5]

Okay, so the *****-fest continues over on the Pens board about the officiating.

It's gotten to the point now they say the referees are "ruining" the game by slowing it down so much. My guess is they are talking about the Wings ability to shut down other team's offense.

Apparently, Pens fans believe that the calls aren't being made, which has merit as there have only been a handful of total penalties (melee aside) in the 1st 2 games.

However, if the refs didn't put the whistles away and called everything, Pens fans seem to think the Wings would get 3 or 4 power plays and the Pens would get 10-14 power plays per game.

My question is: What do you think about the flow of the games played (1 & 2). Do you think the games have been fast-paced and exciting. Or do you think they have been slowed to a crawl via the "obstructionist" tactics of the Wings. Would an endless stream of players hitting the penalty box be good for the flow of the game? Pens fans are convinced in some absurd reality, that calling everything would make the game flow better and showcase the skill. I'm saying WTF? I'm starting to question the entire Pens fan population now as IMO, it's a fundamental fact that whistles disrupt flow.

Game 1 had good flow, Game 2, less so. As defense and forechecking intensifies (along with fatigue), longer and less precise passes occur and those lead to icing and offsides. There WERE more whistles in game 2 but not because of obstruction -- these were icing and offside stoppages. Both teams were "guilty." Also, both teams are being careful in the neutral zone trying to avoid turnovers and that slows things somewhat.

[egroen 384]

Penguins fans have been talking about a "return to the clutch & grab of the 90s" -- but let's be honest, most of them were not even fans at the time of the dead puck era (or out of diapers yet) so they have no clue what they are talking about.

Games at that time could get brutal to watch - we're not simply talking about getting in the way of another player or light taps with the stick - we are talking about guys literally hitching a ride onto players with their gloves and sticks, hitting players no where near the puck and outright bear hugs. As "loose" as these games have been called, they are 100 times better than what went on during the dead puck era.

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

simple fact, there's 2 teams out there on the ice, and 2 teams could get penalties against them. there's been questionable calls on both sides. missed calls happen, even when they seem blatant. i don't hear any pens fans complaining that helm didn't even get a shot off on his breakaway, because hal gill slashed his hands. and of course the penguin fan media loves that no call.

in closing, pens fans are bushleague, but they suck at the highest level.

[edicius 3,269]

As a visiting Penguins fan (one of the good ones) said here in another thread, we see missed calls on the Pens, they see missed calls on the Wings. And when taking it out of the eyes of bias, it's probably pretty damn even.

I know that in Game 1, in particular, I kept seeing missed calls right and left on the Pens (Hossa interfered with multiple times, Zata elbowed and cross-checked by Crosby, etc.). But that's what we as Wings fans look for. If one of our guys gets away with interference, we're not as likely to pick it up. It's a blind spot of sorts. That's not to say that we don't see it sometimes, but I think it had to be more obvious - last game I know I made mention that Kronwall was very lucky not to pick up a cross-checking penalty in the corner on the PK, as the cameras picked up repeated cross-checks very clearly.

When it comes down to it, despite all the missed calls I've seen on the Pens, I think the officials have actually called the games pretty evenly and as such have maintained a good flow to the game. It's not the refs' fault that the Pens can't manage with the Wings legally clogging up the passing lanes.

Edited June 2, 2009 by edicius

[RedWings 79]

there were a lot of penguins huge interferences not called

the refs are NOT advantaging detroit

osgood has been lucky with his posts however. but so was fleury

[MonkeyGoalie 14]

I have liked the flow of the games so far in the series. I just think that the most are the pens fans that are complaining are complaining because Crosby and Malkin don't have the amount of space that they are used to, during the regular season and earlier in the playoffs, to be the offensive powerhouse that they were all year. Defense does not have the top billing in the east as it does in the west.

The whole "obstruction" thing is getting old right now. I don't remember it being stated the first three rounds in the playoff, by the other teams playing the Wings (but I also don't spend too much time reading the other teams forums). It's not until we get to play against an East team that the whole "obstruction" complaints come out.

About the calling every little thing, I think could favor the Pens, but with the fans complaining about it gives me the notion that the only way they think the Pens can win is by get PP points.

These are just my opions nothing more nothing less.

[VM1138 1,921]

Okay, so the *****-fest continues over on the Pens board about the officiating.

It's gotten to the point now they say the referees are "ruining" the game by slowing it down so much. My guess is they are talking about the Wings ability to shut down other team's offense.

Apparently, Pens fans believe that the calls aren't being made, which has merit as there have only been a handful of total penalties (melee aside) in the 1st 2 games.

However, if the refs didn't put the whistles away and called everything, Pens fans seem to think the Wings would get 3 or 4 power plays and the Pens would get 10-14 power plays per game.

My question is: What do you think about the flow of the games played (1 & 2). Do you think the games have been fast-paced and exciting. Or do you think they have been slowed to a crawl via the "obstructionist" tactics of the Wings. Would an endless stream of players hitting the penalty box be good for the flow of the game? Pens fans are convinced in some absurd reality, that calling everything would make the game flow better and showcase the skill. I'm saying WTF? I'm starting to question the entire Pens fan population now as IMO, it's a fundamental fact that whistles disrupt flow.

They must not watch much hockey. Games 1 and 2 were among the fastest paced, up-and-down hockey games I've ever seen. I see no significant obstruction by either team. I think it's funny that all non-Wings fans suddenly decide the Wings cheat every time they're on the ice, but this complaint only emerges when we're in the Finals. I know occasionally a coach will ***** earlier in the playoffs, but it's never consistent. Only when we're int he Finals does everyone start calling the Wings out for doing everything illegally.

[toby91_ca 620]

My question is: What do you think about the flow of the games played (1 & 2). Do you think the games have been fast-paced and exciting. Or do you think they have been slowed to a crawl via the "obstructionist" tactics of the Wings. Would an endless stream of players hitting the penalty box be good for the flow of the game? Pens fans are convinced in some absurd reality, that calling everything would make the game flow better and showcase the skill. I'm saying WTF? I'm starting to question the entire Pens fan population now as IMO, it's a fundamental fact that whistles disrupt flow.

I think the flow has been okay and clearly, a parade to the penalty box would not be good for flow, but I have bigger problems with the rules and officiating, see another thread I had just created.

Here is the key issue as far as I am concerned: The league tried to enforce the rulebook tighter, with the thought that there would be tons of penalties called early on and then players would get used to it and stop committing the fouls and the game would open up, penalties would come down, etc. Penalties certainly came down over time, but not because players changed the way they play, but because the officials stopped calling so tight.

In an ideal world, the refs would call everything by the book (i.e. if you hook a guys arm, even if ever so slightly, it's a penalty).....my hope would be that the players would then change their approach, it's not the penalties will stop being called over time, it's that the penalties would STOP HAPPENING over time....then you'd get to a spot where the flow of the game would be really faced paced.