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For all those whining...


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#1 Digdug76

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 10:21 AM

Pens fan here, but I come in peace. I have nothing but the utmost respect for the Wings and their franchise. To be able to continually put out a competitive team without ever seeming to get any top 10 draft picks is a feat in itself.

I've read a lot of posts with people whining and crying about the refs in this series. I've also read a ton of responses by intelligent posters that are telling these members to shut up and because of this, I know board has some pretty knowledgable and respectable fans.

To hear the complaints about the interference call in the third really blows my mind. Cooke didn't have the puck, Cooke didn't shoot the puck, and Ericsson left his path and went out of his way to cut Cooke off into the boards. Like MANY people on here have already said, it was text book interference.

I've been disappointed with some of the reffing too. Imagine being a Pens fan and seeing Zetterberg cover the puck in the crease in game one only to see it ignored. Or even in game two he MAY have done it again, but it was under his body, so nobody knows. I'm not saying he did, but it was possible again. However in game two Hossa got away with a blatent hook that resulted in the game winning goal.

Was it frustrating? Hell yeah, but I'm not going to sit and whine about it. Scoring one goal a game won't win you a playoff game, so the Pens had to be better at finishing their chances and not depend on the refs only.

To hear these people whine about the refs is pretty sad. Keep in mind in both of the first two games, the refs missed blatent calls that were either game changing (Hossa hook), or could have been game changing (Zetterberg covering the puck, resulting in a penalty shot.) Was the Ericsson penalty game changing? Sure was, but the thing is, it was actually a legit call.

I'm not impressed with the reffing for either team. All season and into the playoffs certain calls are made, but it seems now in the finals, the refs have a whole new way of reffing the games....it makes no sense. I point to the hit from behind on Hossa last night and why it wasn't called???

Also, normally I have a lot of respect for Babcock, but even HE was whining in a subtle way after the game. Talking about how the Pens got a PP and they didn't in the third. Saying that they could have had PP's, but it didn't end up that way. Nice way of getting around the fine and making your point. Yet in the first two games after two blatently missed calls that changed the game in the Wings favor, Bylsma didn't say a WORD about penalties, or missed penalties. It just seemed very unlike Mike.

I know our fans aren't perfect, in fact some are just downright ridiculous, but I'm not one of them that sits and blames the refs. Yes the refs missed a blatent penalty that cost us the game in game 2, but like I said, if you're only going to score one goal, you're not going to win. Did they miss a penalty shot in game 1? Yup, but again, 1 goal won't win you a game.

Hats off to the fans on here that put these whiners in their places. It's been an enjoyable series thus far, and I'm sort of embarassed to come away with a win last night, but I guess we're allowed to steal one too....seeing as I thought the Pens played well enough in game two to get the win....they just didn't get the bounces.

Good luck the rest of the way.


#2 Jaymz99

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 10:48 AM

I think that the stripes have been the best this whole playoffs, during this series...so far. And that is not saying alot, but it's still better. They have let them play hockey. This has been what Mickey Redmond has been complaining about all year. Let them play. The interference call on Ericsson was legit. The reason people are complaing is because the same call could have been made numerous times through out the game but was withheld until then. The Wings have had to put up with countless phantom calls, no calls, and poor calls just like many other teams because the zebras are doing a poor job. On the same note, we have to put up with little or negative media coverage for our team and an overrated Crosby, that has been pretty much shut down during the series, still makes headlines. This is while an AHL player, Darth Kader, has more goals than Malkin/Crosby combind. The Penguins are a hell of a team, but they are pampered and whine way too much. This is why they get no respect. THe Wings are constantly trying to improve and even when they win, they talk about how they need to play better and how they made mistakes. The Wings have class. At the end of the day, breaks, bounces, luck, whatever you want to call it, the game is the game. Keep it classy.
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#3 spydrwebb

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 10:54 AM

welcome. your points are well taken. opposing team's fans are welcome here in most all cases... with the predominant exception being obvious antagonism and ill repute.

i don't get that at all from your post. good to have you here. enjoy your stay.
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#4 gentex

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 11:05 AM

QUOTE (Digdug76 @ June 3, 2009 - 10:21AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Cooke didn't have the puck, Cooke didn't shoot the puck, and Ericsson left his path and went out of his way to cut Cooke off into the boards. Like MANY people on here have already said, it was text book interference.


That's how I saw it. I was pissed, and knew it was a penalty as soon as Ericsson made contact. I don't know if they've been letting that sort of thing go in other situations, but that was interference.

The thing that annoys me more than that call is all of the other non-calls that I saw. Crosby runs around cross-checking people left and right (particularly Z) because he knows he won't get called. I saw plenty of other intereference out there that could be called, but wasn't.

It's frustrating and it makes me throw things at the TV; but, that's hockey. Refs are human and fallible. They miss calls (too many men) and they can make poor judgements on calls that could go either way.

Hopefully the wings put it behind them and can catch an officiating break or two in game 4.


#5 AD2044

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 11:21 AM

Hal F'n Gill don't say a word to me about anything pens fans!

#6 CenterIce

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 11:27 AM

Yes, Ericsson and Cleary's penalties were legitimate. But I am more concerned about the non-calls where Pittsburgh had 6 men on the ice, Franzen got high sticked in the head, and Osgood got kicked in the head by Cooke. If a penalty is deserved, that is fine call it, but the only thing consistent about the officials is that they are inconsistent. Outside of that the Wings hampered themselves by getting only 3 shots on goal in the third and not generating a lot of consistent offensive zone pressure. The Wings will learn from that and come back stronger in game 4.


#7 PROBIE4PREZ

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 11:31 AM

i liked games 1 and 2 better .. even if the pens were up 2-1 id take the calls from game 1 and 2 ... ppg game winners really ruin it .. there was like 3-4 penelties called in game one and there was that many at the end of the first.. 5 on 5 hockey is what i want to see .. ( also on the whining part post the same s*** on letsgopens.com its even worse voer there ...)

Edited by PROBIE4PREZ, 03 June 2009 - 11:32 AM.

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#8 Jake Ryan

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 11:32 AM

I'll let the Pens fans have their moment in the sun. It's not like they won the cup last night. Want to know what they really did? They beat us by a power play goal called during a moment of the game where there shouldn't have been a call. Then they put in an empty netter. So after playing poorly, the Red Wings lost by 2 goals, one of which was an empty netter. Yah, over 7 games, odds are we're going to lose one. It's hard for any hockey team to go undefeated. I think the Red Wings will come out an play a solid game 4 tomorrow. What I'm not going to do right now is start blaming the officials or our team. Although the call on Ericsson was borderline considering earlier events, the refs have been really consistent so far in this series with their lack of calling penalties. Whether or not that hurts the Red Wings or helps them is another discussion, but for the first time, the Red Wings and their fans can pretty much plan for the way the games are going to be officiated = 2 to 3 power plays a night for each team. That was the only thing that had me nervous at the start of the series. I thought the officials might take the games out of the Red Wings' control and give Pittsburgh opportunities that they shouldn't have (see lame 5 on 3s from 2008). So far, that has been minimal or non-existent. We have a series at 2-1 that is about to go to 3-1 tomorrow night. Look for a Red Wings performance that has you comfortable by the end of the 1st period. I think they are going to take a 3 - 0 lead in the first and never look back. Lets Go Red Wings. Hit it hard tomorrow!

#9 bonan78

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 11:33 AM

As the OP already observed, Wings fans are not upset about the call on Ericsson, that is a call that you almost have to make, but the main cause of our complaint is that the officials have chosen to ignore violations that were just as obvious by Penguins players. I counted at least 3 plays by Orpik where he either interfered, slashed or cross-checked a Red Wings player and there was no call. As for Zetterberg in the crease, yes in game 1 they could have called it, in game 2 he blocked the goal line with his body, good no call there. Finally, as for Hossa's "slash " on Dupuis that led to the GWG, Dupuis broke his stick on Hossa's skate and was dropping it when Hossa hit it, so there should not have been any call, again the right call by the refs. The vast majority of intelligent Wings fans here realize that there is no conspiracy to hand the Cup to the Penguins, but we have a legitimate beef about the officiating trends in this series, especially when the league is supposed to have selected their best officials. It's disappointing and frustrating, but nothing more. All that being said, we have been atrocious on the PK and we can't afford to take as many penalties as we have, and we definitely cannot afford to have the refs making bad calls against us.
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#10 Stiffy

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 11:37 AM

I personally find these, "High I'm a Pens fan, I respect your team, I am a hockey expert like you... blah blah blah" messages phony and affected. I mean, what is the point? You wanna feel welcome? Go visit your grandma.

#11 jollymania

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 11:40 AM

people are mad that the ericsson call was the only one made where there were clearly 4 or 5 other interferences especially one minutes after from cooke that weren't called, call them all or like in the first 2 games dont call any of them
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#12 irishtemper14+25

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 11:42 AM

what did you say...I couldn't hear it above the whining


WINGS IN 5

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#13 RedWingsFan13

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 11:43 AM

QUOTE (Digdug76 @ June 3, 2009 - 11:21AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Pens fan here, but I come in peace. I have nothing but the utmost respect for the Wings and their franchise. To be able to continually put out a competitive team without ever seeming to get any top 10 draft picks is a feat in itself.

I've read a lot of posts with people whining and crying about the refs in this series. I've also read a ton of responses by intelligent posters that are telling these members to shut up and because of this, I know board has some pretty knowledgable and respectable fans.

To hear the complaints about the interference call in the third really blows my mind. Cooke didn't have the puck, Cooke didn't shoot the puck, and Ericsson left his path and went out of his way to cut Cooke off into the boards. Like MANY people on here have already said, it was text book interference.

I've been disappointed with some of the reffing too. Imagine being a Pens fan and seeing Zetterberg cover the puck in the crease in game one only to see it ignored. Or even in game two he MAY have done it again, but it was under his body, so nobody knows. I'm not saying he did, but it was possible again. However in game two Hossa got away with a blatent hook that resulted in the game winning goal.

Was it frustrating? Hell yeah, but I'm not going to sit and whine about it. Scoring one goal a game won't win you a playoff game, so the Pens had to be better at finishing their chances and not depend on the refs only.

To hear these people whine about the refs is pretty sad. Keep in mind in both of the first two games, the refs missed blatent calls that were either game changing (Hossa hook), or could have been game changing (Zetterberg covering the puck, resulting in a penalty shot.) Was the Ericsson penalty game changing? Sure was, but the thing is, it was actually a legit call.

I'm not impressed with the reffing for either team. All season and into the playoffs certain calls are made, but it seems now in the finals, the refs have a whole new way of reffing the games....it makes no sense. I point to the hit from behind on Hossa last night and why it wasn't called???

Also, normally I have a lot of respect for Babcock, but even HE was whining in a subtle way after the game. Talking about how the Pens got a PP and they didn't in the third. Saying that they could have had PP's, but it didn't end up that way. Nice way of getting around the fine and making your point. Yet in the first two games after two blatently missed calls that changed the game in the Wings favor, Bylsma didn't say a WORD about penalties, or missed penalties. It just seemed very unlike Mike.

I know our fans aren't perfect, in fact some are just downright ridiculous, but I'm not one of them that sits and blames the refs. Yes the refs missed a blatent penalty that cost us the game in game 2, but like I said, if you're only going to score one goal, you're not going to win. Did they miss a penalty shot in game 1? Yup, but again, 1 goal won't win you a game.

Hats off to the fans on here that put these whiners in their places. It's been an enjoyable series thus far, and I'm sort of embarassed to come away with a win last night, but I guess we're allowed to steal one too....seeing as I thought the Pens played well enough in game two to get the win....they just didn't get the bounces.

Good luck the rest of the way.


20+ seconds of 6 man advatage, with no call. nuff said

#14 lomekian

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 11:43 AM

Digdug.....your viewpoint is fair enough, and the wings have got away with enough for us to not feel the officiating is biased, but some of the calls have been very poor. The too many men call was disgusting, because it was so obvious. If you see the replay, the centre ice ref is clearly thinking something is up because of the way he looks around the rink after seeing eaton. It was just a really bad error. The odd hook, interference etc call is going to go for or against you because the margins are so tight, but seeing the cross check that kronwall was called on in gme 2 compared to Hall Gills licence to do the same all night is hard to take.

Its the consistency of the big calls that are lacking - I can understand why a ref would miss a hossa slight hook that leads to a goal, or talbot mild slash that prevents someone form having a clean shot at an empty net. These things are about degrees or interpretation. But the too many men non-call, the malkin non-suspension (which was always going to happen!), Orpik and Gill's attempted rape of any small forwards in their zone all night (literally several rugby tackles in the 2nd and early third), are not interpretation calls. They are black and white (not as bad as the goal scored on the wings this year after the puck had been shot out of play!). And of course, the wings fans have a build up of suspicion after a suprisingly large number of similarly obvious calls agains them this year and last.

Its not an anti pens thing. We bash you guys cos you're the only team in the east we're remotely scared of. That and the entirely media machine being up cosby's arse. He's a fantastic player and young leader, but no matter how hard they try to make it happen, he's not going to be Gretzky. I like the pens, and against most teams i would be happy to see them succeed (though the federov angel had me going for the caps). Apart from a couple of exceptions, the pens aren't remotely dirty, they try to play the right way, and are one dynamic winger from being the most exciting team to watch (IMO). Also respect for Bylsma on this board has been pretty much universal. He's the anti-therrien...classy, smart and effective.

Basically we're bitching because 1) we're a little nervous 2) No Dats 3) Poor officiating over an extended period of time 4) Our PK has disintegrated. We all know that the pens are the one team out east who could turn this around, and we're a couple of key players down. Our s***ty PK means we are vulnerable to the Pens PP, so bad or inconsitant calls are really hurting us.

PS..could Malkin be any more different this year. If he was out as dats is for us, this would be a walk in the park for the wings....

#15 BigWinston

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 11:45 AM

QUOTE (Digdug76 @ June 3, 2009 - 11:21AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I know our fans aren't perfect, in fact some are just downright ridiculous, but I'm not one of them that sits and blames the refs. Yes the refs missed a blatent penalty that cost us the game in game 2, but like I said, if you're only going to score one goal, you're not going to win. Did they miss a penalty shot in game 1? Yup, but again, 1 goal won't win you a game.


I don't get it - I read a lot of different hockey boards.

Why do all Pen's fans feel the non-penalty/penalty-shot you refer to cost you the game, like you were 100% odds-on to win if you'd have got the call?? Wasn't it in the middle of the second period????

It didn't "cost you the game" - It just took away that goal scoring chance and the chance of any resulting power-play or penalty shot.

Who know's if the Pen's would have scored from that situation, and how Detroit would have responded. Maybe the Pen's would have gone on to win, or maybe it would have made Detroit play all the better and dominate the Pens.

You just don't know, so to say it cost you the game is ridiculous! Its no different than saying the 6-men on the ice missed call cost the Wings the game. It didn't, just a power-play chance!!!!!!

Edited by BigWinston, 03 June 2009 - 11:55 AM.


#16 Snazzy

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 11:45 AM

I haven't seen people whining. I saw people disappointed because we blew our sweep last night. Ah well, I guess we'll get it done in 5 or 6.

A sweep would have been great, just to prove that Crosby is a little *****.
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#17 fto1039

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 11:51 AM

I agree with most people the call on E. was a good call, just that they need to make they call both ways all game. For the most part the refs have let them play and that is great. Just because we get penalty called on us does not mean that lost the game for us. We have to do a better job on the PK. All the fans are asking of the refs is to call it the same for both teams, they are human and do make mistakes so give them a break. The Wings did not play good enough in the Third to win last night.

#18 hooon

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 12:02 PM

rescinded suspensions and 25 seconds with 6 men on the ice, not to mention orpik and his blatant violations.

You tell us that wings fan see it as they want to see it, but you are doing the exact same thing.

Pens fans whined for 3 days about 'luck' and 'missed calls', and now you come onto our board to give us a lecture about legitimate complaints with the officiating.

Edited by hooon, 03 June 2009 - 12:06 PM.

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#19 lilja4mvp

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 12:45 PM

wings fans should be upset with cleary. he doesn't take that absolutely pointless holding penalty in the offensive zone when we are up 2-1 and this game could have turned out differently.

you can't pull s*** like that when your PK is humming along at 70%, dips***.

ericcsson to a lesser extent. yeah, hal gill interferes constantly, but ericcssons was more blatant because he a) left his lane to go after the guy, and b) the guy wasn't the one that just dumped the puck in. a rookie mistake.

#20 MississippiWing

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 01:10 PM

It is a decision the refs made after ignoring several. Good teams play through adversity and the Wings will overcome this just like they overcame Hossa's goal getting waved off earlier these playoffs. It makes for an interesting series but game 4 will be the last one in Pittsburgh this season.





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