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What if Pittsburgh scored with 6 men?


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#21 Shoreline

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 10:17 AM

QUOTE (Casey @ June 4, 2009 - 08:11AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You want to tell me how 2 reviews per side, per game, is anywhere near the charlie-fox that is the NFL challenge system? I was merely saying NFL-style as a way of saying that if you challenge and lose, there's a penalty.

It's a waste of time. It's a lame ass politically correct way to appease people regarding the imperfections of calls and look what happens when the imperfection of replay comes up and it bogs up a fast-paced game down to the s*** the NFL is. More conspiracy s***. People expect some sense of perfection that is non-existent. Maybe you guys should focus on what IS evident -- the fact that the refs are giving normal obstruction calls on both sides a pass. The players don't know what they are going to call, there is an obvious problem with reffing, it can't be solved with replay, and it isn't there to benefit the Penguins any more than the Wings (to knock out a few arguments at once floating around).

Edited by Shoreline, 04 June 2009 - 10:18 AM.


#22 VM1138

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 10:18 AM

QUOTE (egroen @ June 4, 2009 - 10:09AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've thought about that as well -- amazingly, Pittsburgh did not get a single shot on net during those 21 seconds.
if the Penguins had scored, I really don;t think there is anything that can be done about it as long as the linesmen are not calling it.


There is no way even these refs would allow a 6 on 5 goal to stand.
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#23 Shoreline

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 10:21 AM

QUOTE (MsRedWingFan @ June 4, 2009 - 08:11AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
yupp all NHL rules seem to be left up to INTERPRETATION ... they would just says seeing the ref didn't make the call the goal is allowed

Given your problem with interpretation, the last part of your sentence here is rather ironic given your interpretation of the rules regarding disallowed goals.

#24 Mooker

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 10:41 AM

Goal would count and Crosby would be awarded a penalty shot during which our goalie would have to watch from the penalty box. If Crosby hits the net, it's another goal. If he misses the open net, it's 2 goals.

#25 RockyMountainWingGal

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 10:54 AM

QUOTE (Shoreline @ June 4, 2009 - 09:01AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How would it sway anything? The Penguins didn't score. Sure, they should have been penalized, but the Wings also get away with s*** they should be penalized with too, case in point, the video. It also shows that indeed the refs can't ALWAYS spot too many men so yet another strike against the conspiracy s***wagon.

Edit: And no I do NOT want af****** NFL style challenge. The NFL is the No Fun League because they need to challenge and replay everything and bog their game down with politically correct and futile attempts at trying to perfect every play. Let refs be human FFS. The Red Wings benefit just as much as anyone else from their mistakes.

All I'm saying is that having 6 men on the ice for over 20s in the SCF is just ridiculous and has much more POTENTIAL to affect the outcome of a series, than the same non-call would have during the regular 82 game season.

If you look at the body of the Wings work the entire game 3 - it's true one cannot just blame that non-call for the loss, that's a cop out. The game was tied going into the third and the Wings only put up 3 SOG. Nonetheless I still think it's egregious to not catch that call - if it was 5s or so you understand. At least with the BJs the 6th man was leaving the ice (although the guy coming on touched the puck). In this case 6 guys were in on the play.

And no I don't want a coach challenge in the NHL, I was just pointing out that a college football team won a national title on a 5th down.... that's far worse than the NHL imo....
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#26 NomadFromKazoo

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 11:15 AM

QUOTE (ryan91 @ June 4, 2009 - 10:12AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hopefully that would be the case, however most people would say the same thing about the Hossa goal scored against the Ducks that was disallowed but something like that is un reviewable, and non calls are as well (such as too many men)

That was a completely different issue. You can't have play continue when the whistle blows. It would be chaos and potentially dangerous to continue play and the players would have to do that because it could count. The thing on counting the whistle blowing when the ref thought of blowing it instead of when he did is lame, but that's a different question of when you measure that the whistle blew. The bottom line is in sports whistle = stop play must be absolute.
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#27 Mcquade

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 11:17 AM

The goal would have been allowed. The ruling would have taken into account that none of the Pens players are actually men to begin with.

Thus the too many MEN on the ice rule does not apply to them.






(I'm a die hard Pens fan too btw! Can't believe you guys missed this shot. biggrin.gif )

#28 egroen

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 11:22 AM

QUOTE (Mcquade @ June 4, 2009 - 12:17PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The goal would have been allowed. The ruling would have taken into account that none of the Pens players are actually men to begin with.

Thus the too many MEN on the ice rule does not apply to them.






(I'm a die hard Pens fan too btw! Can't believe you guys missed this shot. biggrin.gif )

It's been mentioned in other threads smile.gif

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#29 Shoreline

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 11:24 AM

QUOTE (RockyMountainWingGal @ June 4, 2009 - 08:54AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
All I'm saying is that having 6 men on the ice for over 20s in the SCF is just ridiculous and has much more POTENTIAL to affect the outcome of a series, than the same non-call would have during the regular 82 game season.

If you look at the body of the Wings work the entire game 3 - it's true one cannot just blame that non-call for the loss, that's a cop out. The game was tied going into the third and the Wings only put up 3 SOG. Nonetheless I still think it's egregious to not catch that call - if it was 5s or so you understand. At least with the BJs the 6th man was leaving the ice (although the guy coming on touched the puck). In this case 6 guys were in on the play.

And no I don't want a coach challenge in the NHL, I was just pointing out that a college football team won a national title on a 5th down.... that's far worse than the NHL imo....

It is ridiculous. However, it was simply a bad time for the refs to "miss" that call. I was pissed off just as anyone would be in that situation, but hell, watching the rest of the game the Wings just didn't show up for the rest of the game. That 2-2 tie was facade and made the game seem closer than it was. The Wings if anything deserved to be scored on more for their lack of effort later on. To this point their turnovers and lack of skating weren't costing them as big as they should, but Game 3 was exactly what should happen when they just sit back. And yeah the edit was to a previous post. laugh.gif

#30 Mcquade

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 11:31 AM

QUOTE (egroen @ June 4, 2009 - 12:22PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's been mentioned in other threads smile.gif



How many threads about this have there been? blink.gif

#31 LeftWinger

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 11:43 AM

lets just be glad they didn't.

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#32 edicius

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 11:44 AM

QUOTE (Shoreline @ June 4, 2009 - 11:01AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How would it sway anything? The Penguins didn't score. Sure, they should have been penalized, but the Wings also get away with s*** they should be penalized with too, case in point, the video. It also shows that indeed the refs can't ALWAYS spot too many men so yet another strike against the conspiracy s***wagon.


This is how I could argue that it could have swayed the series...

We were up 2-1 when the infraction occurred. Had we gone on the resulting power play and scored, it would have put us up 3-1. Not an insurmountable lead, but powerful nonetheless, especially in a game that could produce a 3-0 series lead. Instead, Detroit got the next penalty and then the Penguins went on to score 3 unanswered goals to win the game, getting solidly back into the series.

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#33 edicius

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 11:47 AM

QUOTE (VM1138 @ June 4, 2009 - 11:18AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There is no way even these refs would allow a 6 on 5 goal to stand.


Didn't something like this happen in the playoffs last year though? I want to say I remember the Penguins scoring on us with a sixth skater on the ice and the goal stood, though I may be mis-remembering (wrong team, regular season instead of playoffs, etc.).

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#34 Frozen-Man

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 12:09 PM

QUOTE (Mcquade @ June 4, 2009 - 12:17PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The goal would have been allowed. The ruling would have taken into account that none of the Pens players are actually men to begin with.

Thus the too many MEN on the ice rule does not apply to them.






(I'm a die hard Pens fan too btw! Can't believe you guys missed this shot. biggrin.gif )


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#35 StormJH1

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 12:42 PM

Guys, seriously, grow up. They got a 6th guy on the ice for 20 seconds who was a bunk defenseman way out of the play. The play did not result in us surrendering a goal or taking a penalty. It did not impact the outcome of the game. Should it have happened? Absolutely not, but where do you want to go from there.

The Wings' best attribute, more than their skating, checking, or goaltending, is their professionalism. One of the most calming things for me watching a game is to see us give up what could be a backbreaking goal, and the camera pans over to Mike Babock, who is standing there cold as ice, taking a swig of water from a plastic cup. Our fan base should aspire to that same degree of professionalism that our squad demonstrates on the ice, rather than getting into pissing matches over refs being paid off or whatever.

#36 XxGoWingsxX

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 12:51 PM

QUOTE (Manny>Ozzie(by a long shot) @ June 4, 2009 - 10:16AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The NHL rulebook states that the goal would be disallowed AND a penalty would be assesed to the offending team. (74.1)


lol yea but the rulebook also states that when the refs see you have too many guys on the ice and you play the puck you get a penalty but apparently the ref actually told the 6th man to get off the ice
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#37 Shoreline

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 01:19 PM

QUOTE (edicius @ June 4, 2009 - 09:44AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is how I could argue that it could have swayed the series...

We were up 2-1 when the infraction occurred. Had we gone on the resulting power play and scored, it would have put us up 3-1. Not an insurmountable lead, but powerful nonetheless, especially in a game that could produce a 3-0 series lead. Instead, Detroit got the next penalty and then the Penguins went on to score 3 unanswered goals to win the game, getting solidly back into the series.

One could say that about handfuls of non-calls against the Red Wings that led to Wings goals. Objectivity is key.

#38 ryan91

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 01:36 PM

QUOTE (StormJH1 @ June 4, 2009 - 01:42PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Guys, seriously, grow up. They got a 6th guy on the ice for 20 seconds who was a bunk defenseman way out of the play. The play did not result in us surrendering a goal or taking a penalty. It did not impact the outcome of the game. Should it have happened? Absolutely not, but where do you want to go from there.

The Wings' best attribute, more than their skating, checking, or goaltending, is their professionalism. One of the most calming things for me watching a game is to see us give up what could be a backbreaking goal, and the camera pans over to Mike Babock, who is standing there cold as ice, taking a swig of water from a plastic cup. Our fan base should aspire to that same degree of professionalism that our squad demonstrates on the ice, rather than getting into pissing matches over refs being paid off or whatever.

Well, from what i remember the Red Wings actually took it a step further and claimed that the Denis Larue was yelling at one of the 6 players on the ice to get off. Not to say that wasnt true, but there has not been any evidence to support it. And the outcome of the game would have been 100% different had a penalty been called on the play, even if we didnt score our powerplay is the best in the league and another 2 minutes in the offensive zone would have increased our momentum.

#39 WingsCaptain

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 01:54 PM

QUOTE (Mooker @ June 4, 2009 - 11:41AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Goal would count and Crosby would be awarded a penalty shot during which our goalie would have to watch from the penalty box. If Crosby hits the net, it's another goal. If he misses the open net, it's 2 goals.


Now this post had me rolling. Seriously, that's some funny sh*t.

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