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One thing I am just sick of from everybody


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#1 SouthernWingsFan

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 07:07 PM

Please tell me if I'm being unfair or unreasonable on this, or if I'm posting something that'll get some "Well, duh" responses, or if I'm being to simplistic or whatever. One thing I do not want this thread to turn into is a Bettman loves Crosby/Pitt thread or everybody is purposefully against the Red Wings.

I'm just so sick and tired of hearing and reading about officiating from either here from our fans or on the radio or from the drama queen rants I've read on here based off stories of respones of Pitt fans from the first two games, whatever. I'm just tired about it in general.

No, the referees shouldn't be treated like sweet innocent puppy dogs, that's not what I'm trying to imply. I'm just tired of rants that referees have it in for *insert team name here* and there are conspiracies or whatever else. Just seems extremely rampant more than usual this time around in a playoff series than other series or years, much much more. Maybe it's also that I have no desire to waste time being a conspiracy theorist as it'd make me more miserable.

I have never officiated hockey, but I have other sports before at less talented levels of play, but it is still hard to do. I made my share of bad calls as well and got dogged for it. Is the state of officating in the NHL all hunky dory? Of course not, but also see above what I've stated twice as well. Also what I learned is no matter what, there are going to be missed calls and inconsistency, I don't care what game or sport it is. 99 times out of 100 the referees do not ultimately decide a game or series, both teams in a game are going to get their share of good/bad breaks from officiating, and they tend to even out in a game or series. That's just the way it is when human error and judgment get involved.

#2 Pensfan

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 07:10 PM

People will not shut up about officiating because Versus, Eddie O, and NBC, pound missed calls by the officiating crew into your head all game long.

Edited by Pensfan, 05 June 2009 - 07:11 PM.


#3 Cern

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 07:12 PM

I don't care how hard officiating is, FOUR people letting a too-many-men call slide for a full 20 seconds is completely inexcusable, it's the easiest most cut-and-dry call in the entire rulebook when it happens for a fraction as long as it did in game 3. I'm not screaming conspiracy but I seriously haven't ever seen officiating so incompetent since the Hand of God.

Edited by Cern, 05 June 2009 - 07:13 PM.

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#4 Pensfan

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 07:15 PM

QUOTE (Cern @ June 5, 2009 - 08:12PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't care how hard officiating is, FOUR people letting a too-many-men call slide for a full 20 seconds is completely inexcusable, it's the easiest most cut-and-dry call in the entire rulebook when it happens for a fraction as long as it did in game 3. I'm not screaming conspiracy but I seriously haven't ever seen officiating so incompetent since the Hand of God.


4 + the entire Red Wings bench.

#5 SDavis35

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 07:20 PM

QUOTE (SouthernWingsFan @ June 5, 2009 - 08:07PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Please tell me if I'm being unfair or unreasonable on this, or if I'm posting something that'll get some "Well, duh" responses, or if I'm being to simplistic or whatever. One thing I do not want this thread to turn into is a Bettman loves Crosby/Pitt thread or everybody is purposefully against the Red Wings.

I'm just so sick and tired of hearing and reading about officiating from either here from our fans or on the radio or from the drama queen rants I've read on here based off stories of respones of Pitt fans from the first two games, whatever. I'm just tired about it in general.

No, the referees shouldn't be treated like sweet innocent puppy dogs, that's not what I'm trying to imply. I'm just tired of rants that referees have it in for *insert team name here* and there are conspiracies or whatever else. Just seems extremely rampant more than usual this time around in a playoff series than other series or years, much much more. Maybe it's also that I have no desire to waste time being a conspiracy theorist as it'd make me more miserable.

I have never officiated hockey, but I have other sports before at less talented levels of play, but it is still hard to do. I made my share of bad calls as well and got dogged for it. Is the state of officating in the NHL all hunky dory? Of course not, but also see above what I've stated twice as well. Also what I learned is no matter what, there are going to be missed calls and inconsistency, I don't care what game or sport it is. 99 times out of 100 the referees do not ultimately decide a game or series, both teams in a game are going to get their share of good/bad breaks from officiating, and they tend to even out in a game or series. That's just the way it is when human error and judgment get involved.


This has been where my problem is this year. I won't point to any specific team, or specific player, because the bad calls happen to everyone. My problem is that the bad calls seem to decide the game and "99% of the time" doesn't seem to be the case anymore. I'm not sure whether it's cause there's inexperienced referees or if the NHL's "parity" movement has magnified their mistakes. Either way I stick to my motto of "Good teams find a way to win"

Now, if the media would shut up about bad calls...

#6 Shoreline

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 07:26 PM

There's a bigger issue at hand here with the officiating than a simple ambiguous "did the refs see it?!" nonsense people harp on with the lack of too many men penalty call. However, as post #2 says, the media helps perpetuate people's focus on it and even worse the wild, retarded, conspiracy theories. They do a good job at making people scared s***less of worse than a lightning-strike chance of terrorists hitting you or someone else in this country, they do a good job at helping people, in this case, think there's some screw job involving the refs missing one play as if that defined the entire game or series. Utterly baffling how off-the-deep end people get over such small potatoes. The masses are asses.

QUOTE (Pensfan @ June 5, 2009 - 05:15PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
4 + the entire Red Wings bench.

No.f******. s***.

PLUS THE WINGS BENCH GUYS. I guess the Wings are in on it too.

Edited by Shoreline, 05 June 2009 - 07:27 PM.


#7 tweekvp

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 07:30 PM

I definitely wish Eddie O. would shut the hell up about missed calls. Most of the time they either were marginal or didn't ultimately effect the overall game anyway.

It is very difficult being a ref for anything. It takes years of practice to get to the level professional refs are at.

My biggest beef with NHL refs is it seems like the only major sport were the refs actively decide not to make some calls depending on the flow of the game. This leads to the inevitable moaning about the inconsistency of how that games are being called. I guess mentally it is much easier to take some yards away or allow some free throws than it is to take one player out of the game for two minutes.

Thats right it's Rollerderby.

#8 SouthernWingsFan

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 07:32 PM

QUOTE (Cern @ June 5, 2009 - 07:12PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't care how hard officiating is, FOUR people letting a too-many-men call slide for a full 20 seconds is completely inexcusable, it's the easiest most cut-and-dry call in the entire rulebook when it happens for a fraction as long as it did in game 3. I'm not screaming conspiracy but I seriously haven't ever seen officiating so incompetent since the Hand of God.

For that specific instance, no doubt about it.

However though, it's still a joke to me to read or hear that referees cost my team a game, b/c that is rarely (or solely) the case.

#9 wmubronco420

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 07:37 PM

of course officiating is hard and refs are bound to make mistakes, but when you're reffing in professional sports, let alone the cup finals, you should be expectied to do a good job. criticism, whether fair or not, comes with the territory.

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#10 Cern

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 07:41 PM

QUOTE (SouthernWingsFan @ June 5, 2009 - 04:32PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
For that specific instance, no doubt about it.

However though, it's still a joke to me to read or hear that referees cost my team a game, b/c that is rarely (or solely) the case.

I don't entirely remember, but I think the Wings got a penalty about a minute later that they got scored on. Even if for the sake of argument that penalty was entirely legit (and it probably was), going 4 on 4 with a shortened power play is a HUGE difference from a full penalty kill. As you say officiating is hardly the sole reason the Wings lost but that non-call went a huge way towards the final score. In fact before game 4 I'd have said officiating in general has been hugely influential by virtue of the Penguins having had serious trouble scoring without physically outnumbering the Wings.

Edited by Cern, 05 June 2009 - 07:44 PM.

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#11 Hack & Whack Rule!

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 09:18 PM

Hmmm.... yes, the officiating sucks these days. No, I don't forgive them, because they are getting paid good money to do a job that is being done poorly.

Whether or not these bad/missed calls affect the outcome of a game is impossible to tell. Since we can't go back in time to see how things would have played out had something been called or not called, whichever the case may be, we just have to live with it. We don't know how an extra pk or two would have tired out some of the Penguins, or given the Wings a morale boost... or the other way around.

Having said that, I still yell at the tv when the s*** goes down. I tell my wife that I can't be heard in Detroit if I don't yell.
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#12 teebo

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 09:32 PM

QUOTE (Pensfan @ June 5, 2009 - 08:15PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
4 + the entire Red Wings bench.


you don't have to be onsides to score a goal either. the officiating is terrible.

#13 tazzer82

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 09:38 PM

All I want to see is the refs be consistent with the calls. I mean, they don't call a penalty one time, and then it seems they change their mind and call it. Like the interference call on Ericsson...perfect example. Yes, it was a legit call. But they should have been calling the interference on the Penguins players before that too. I think that is why so many get upset with the job(or lack of) that the refs do.
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#14 #19forPresident!

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 09:41 PM

I'm with you to an extent.

This stuff happens every year, usually started by the media so they have something to talk about between games, but then it gets picked up by obsessed or bored fans that drive it down the throats of anybody unfortunate enough to share the same personal space or message board. It is what it is, I think most of us do a good job of ignoring it and trying to contribute to something at least semi productive here.

On an officiating note, other than the missed too many men call, the majority of the officiating is what you would expect from the finals, some crap calls here and there, but usually not busch league, certainly not worthy of 'conspiracy' theories w/o any concrete evidence.

That's the game, and that's the breaks, you don't always get the right call or the good bounce, but you take what you get for better or worse and deal with it because the other team has to as well.

Having said that, I think that's a damn good squad we're facing from Pittsburgh, and both teams deserve recognition for being clearly deserving of their opportunity to win it all.

Now lets go get game 5 and then we can worry about 6!
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#15 Snazzy

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 10:09 PM

QUOTE (SouthernWingsFan @ June 5, 2009 - 07:07PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Please tell me if I'm being unfair or unreasonable on this, or if I'm posting something that'll get some "Well, duh" responses, or if I'm being to simplistic or whatever. One thing I do not want this thread to turn into is a Bettman loves Crosby/Pitt thread or everybody is purposefully against the Red Wings.

I'm just so sick and tired of hearing and reading about officiating from either here from our fans or on the radio or from the drama queen rants I've read on here based off stories of respones of Pitt fans from the first two games, whatever. I'm just tired about it in general.

No, the referees shouldn't be treated like sweet innocent puppy dogs, that's not what I'm trying to imply. I'm just tired of rants that referees have it in for *insert team name here* and there are conspiracies or whatever else. Just seems extremely rampant more than usual this time around in a playoff series than other series or years, much much more. Maybe it's also that I have no desire to waste time being a conspiracy theorist as it'd make me more miserable.

I have never officiated hockey, but I have other sports before at less talented levels of play, but it is still hard to do. I made my share of bad calls as well and got dogged for it. Is the state of officating in the NHL all hunky dory? Of course not, but also see above what I've stated twice as well. Also what I learned is no matter what, there are going to be missed calls and inconsistency, I don't care what game or sport it is. 99 times out of 100 the referees do not ultimately decide a game or series, both teams in a game are going to get their share of good/bad breaks from officiating, and they tend to even out in a game or series. That's just the way it is when human error and judgment get involved.


That's what they want you to think.
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#16 sdogg1m

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 10:40 PM

I don't think I would be so upset if it weren't for a couple problems.

1) Those who state the fix is in when the Red Wings PK has been horrible.
2) Those same people who cry bloody murder when things go wrong are all cheery and happy go lucky when things go right.

I think its rediculous for an individual to call "fix, fix, fix" and then cheer when the Red Wings score.

#17 #30Ozziefansince94

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 12:28 AM

I don't think that the refs can actually decide the outcome of the game or officially cause a team to lose the game. However, I do believe that the calls they make can swing the control of the game towards one team over the other. Bad calls are always bound to happen, but when calls aren't made(6 men on the ice) or one call is made on one team but not the other, it makes people doubt and criticize the refs' decisions and perception.

Bad calls lead to a PP advantage for one team and if calls are constantly being made against the other team, PKs become harder and harder. By no means does it control the PK but it gives that team the opportunity to even the score or take the lead in a game. Penalty after penalty on the same team can cause damage i.e the wings in Game 4 against Chicago when the Wings had 11 mins and 40 some seconds spent in the box.

Again, refs are not game deciders but they do play a role in it atleast. Ex: the call against Ericsson. Yes, the PK was bad, but the refs gave Pitt to the upper hand and they scored; or the two calls made seconds within eachother against the Ducks and the wings just couldn't kill two penalties back to back and the Ducks scored.

Anyways, just my two cents smile.gif I love this board and have always kept up on it but never posted. Hello fellow Wings fans!!

GO WINGS!!!

#18 winginKentucky

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 03:09 AM

Penalty's swing momentum. Ericssons penaltys were warranted. He needs to learn to throw his big body out there and smash someone. Leave the puck control to the experts.

Edited by winginKentucky, 06 June 2009 - 03:26 AM.


#19 truebladearmy

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 04:06 AM

I agree the officiating has been bad. However, do keep in mind they can't call EVERYTHING that should be called, or else the entire game would be spent on the PP for one team or another.

What they "Do" need to start doing is calling for consistent things. For the most part the PP ratio doesn't seem too lopsided to me (Though I haven't checked the stats), but the types of calls they're making are very lopsided. And it's not just in Pittsburghs favor either. I've seen some bad non-calls against Detroit too.

I guess what I hate is when you let people get away with blatantly obvious calls, then call piddly crap at another time. The too many men on the ice missed call was one of the worst, because it wasn't just a simple uncalled slash, or uncalled interference.....it was nearly half a minute where one team had a blatant advantage over the other by playing 6 on 5. Then after having just played 5 versus 6 for 20 something seconds, a minute later Detroit goes on the PK. Technically it was like they gave them a 2 minute 20 second powerplay opportunity smile.gif

Those kind of calls you HAVE To make. Fortunately if they had scored on the 6-5, I can almost garauntee it would have been reviewed and disallowed. But the bottom line is Detroit ended up on the PK, during a time when they blatantly (At least if you ask any of the millions of viewers) should have been on the PP already themselves. Miss that call, Detroit doesn't get a PP, instead they get a PK a minute later. Bam. You're losing the game.




#20 pjgj13

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 07:08 AM

Going back to the too many men NON-call....

If they actually called that, Cleary's (?) penalty PROBABLY would not have happened, which would not have led to a Pens PP goal. Then the interference on Ericcson was horses*** because they did not call an interference similar to what he did in the 1st 2 3/4 games.

We will take game 5 tonight!!

GO WINGS!!





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