Class and Hockey.

[jollymania 162]

Which reminds me, do you think Hossa's hit on a back-up goalie up 5-0 was a classless trait he learned while in Pittsburgh (under the leadership of Crosby and Malkin) or was it grit he picked up in Detroit under what has been described as the kind, loving, fair and sportsmanlike tutelage of the Wings leadership?

Do you think Pittsburgh and Detroit fans see that incident in different light?

Did anyone in Detroit cheer when they saw the balding scared back-up get smashed by the Penguins’ interpretation of the anti-Christ? I might have.

that was definitely a penalty it wasn't cheap or classless either, nor was it gritty, nothing but garon's goalie ego being torn and hossa paying the price for an unneeded play that is always gonna land you in the box

[Flintstone Cicarelli 0]

it is neither classless nor gritty, i think its just a tradition stemming from when goalies had way less padding, if a goalie gets slashed or accidentally hit behind the play there should be no retaliation but

Interesting isn't it that a sport in which so many fans cry for classy play hold onto an outdated, outmoded, and presently unnecessary rule that permits unsportsmanlike conduct. I guess the real key is not being classy or classless; it is knowing when you can be each.

[Theophany 110]

it is neither classless nor gritty, i think its just a tradition stemming from when goalies had way less padding, if a goalie gets slashed or accidentally hit behind the play there should be no retaliation but when your goalie has skates near his throat and players diving into him intentionally then you should have some form of physicality to counter it, because there is only one goalie you cant replace him if he goes down. If he is checked like hossa did last night, if all it is is a little bump like that even though hossa had intent that deserves a penalty, no more, if you really get hurt form that you need to try a different sport, goalies are just weird fellows and maybe one goalie comes around and flips the goaltending culture, bet we can only wish

The point of retaliation against that kind of hit is to deter more physicality brought against your goalie. If the other team gets away with a light check without repercussions from your team, you're inviting heavier hits to your goalie.

It's not that a goalie is going to get hurt from a little love bump on the boards, it's that if the bumping intensifies, your goalie will get hurt from a big hit on the boards, or a stick to the gut, or a stick check to the glove hand when he's icing the puck.

If you don't like guys protecting their goalie, I don't know what to tell you. I have no problems with anyone protecting their goalie, regardless of team.

Witness the love that all the Wings have for Ozzie for how much a team loves their 'tender.

[jollymania 162]

I'm more objective than most Wings fans; I thought it was pretty classless of Hossa to do that.

Then again, goalies have been saving my ass for the last 20 years, so I'm inclined to protect them at pretty much all costs.

there was nothing classless about it at all, if a goalie is going to be dumb enough to not shrug it off and take the pp then he would be allowing hossa's dumb move to actually be worth it, and its only dumb because its clearly a penalty, and the reason why is if you check a goalie hard enough yo will injure him and now the team has to rely on a back up, since garon is the back up he should have just shrugged it off since it was a tiny hit

[Flintstone Cicarelli 0]

that was definitely a penalty it wasn't cheap or classless either, nor was it gritty, nothing but garon's goalie ego being torn and hossa paying the price for an unneeded play that is always gonna land you in the box

Anyone who can figure out what the sentence means wins a Rubik's Cube.

[55fan 5,133]

The OP makes a valid point. If I might ask you to cast your minds back to last season when Hasek flipped Gaborik, thus expanding the use of the Wild player's name to include usage as a verb (ie: "he Gaboriked him"), I would query as to how many would find that as amusing had it been JS Giguere flipping Datsyuk.

Classy fans that we are, we ascertained Marian's well-being before declaring that the move was "the s***" or other current nomenclature. I believe I said it was "groovy". Certainly Hasek meant no harm, but the potential for injury was there. That's hockey, eh.

Contrast this to the occasion when Lapierre injured our beloved captain with what was argued to be a clean hit. Downey made sure that the message was sent that liberties with our star players would be met with swift and sure justice. The Avs called it "classless". We lauded him as the second coming of Probert.

Had Boogaard come out and cast his fists of fury upon Hasek, we would have been up in arms, whereas the Wild fans would have been head-over-heels (having had a visual example) in love with their saviour. We would have decried Boogaard's actions as classless.

We need look no farther than the Wings/Avs battle of yore. The Avs radio stations played recordings of a baby crying claiming it was Draper, who was "whining" about his "boo-boo". When Mac stepped forth to avenge his friend, we cheered our champion. The Avs fans thought the "attack" was classless and brutal. They also thought that Draper was a ninny for not having fought his own battles.

Malkin is a goon for attacking Zetterberg. Lilja is a hero for taking exception to <insert name here and please accept my apologies for gapping> and ends up being the victim of a concussion which ends his season.

It's all perspective. What is heroic to one is goonery to another.

Is this wrong? I don't believe so. I think that this is exactly as it should be. We cheer for our team; they cheer for theirs. We are homers. It is part of sports to support your team.

There is, of course, a limit. I don't think any of us would condone a Prongeresque elbow to the head if it was attached to the arm of a Wing. We would certainly not accept that it was physics that made the player incapable of controlling his own appendage. It's not like it's new equipment. He's had those elbows for quite some time now; he ought to be used to them.

I agree with the OP. We are all homers to some extent. I don't see a problem with this. We're fans.

Go Wings! Get all gritty and kick the crap out of those classless goons who try to kick the crap out of you!

Edited June 7, 2009 by 55fan

[Flintstone Cicarelli 0]

there was nothing classless about it at all, if a goalie is going to be dumb enough to not shrug it off and take the pp then he would be allowing hossa's dumb move to actually be worth it, and its only dumb because its clearly a penalty, and the reason why is if you check a goalie hard enough yo will injure him and now the team has to rely on a back up, since garon is the back up he should have just shrugged it off since it was a tiny hit

Then by your logic, Malkin's elbow wasn't classless either; it was just a dumb move that ran the risk of costing 2 minutes? Thanks for helping prove the original premise of the thread. Sorry you had to deal with all the tricky words.

[jollymania 162]

The point of retaliation against that kind of hit is to deter more physicality brought against your goalie. If the other team gets away with a light check without repercussions from your team, you're inviting heavier hits to your goalie.

It's not that a goalie is going to get hurt from a little love bump on the boards, it's that if the bumping intensifies, your goalie will get hurt from a big hit on the boards, or a stick to the gut, or a stick check to the glove hand when he's icing the puck.

If you don't like guys protecting their goalie, I don't know what to tell you. I have no problems with anyone protecting their goalie, regardless of team.

Witness the love that all the Wings have for Ozzie for how much a team loves their 'tender.

i never protected my goalie unless there was imminent danger, all the goalies i've played with would have gladly taken a hit to get on a pp, they were pretty odd guys though so you had to let them pay once in awhile, we got to the state finals so obviously whatever our team did to ignore their social shortcomings worked, i dont think the wings overprotect osgood and thats the way it should be although they do let him out to dry and force him to dive all over the place every once in awhile, if other teams protected their goalie like the wings protected ozzy youd see an unbelievable amount of diving form goaltenders

[BlakChamber 8]

The OP makes a valid point. If I might ask you to cast your minds back to last season when Hasek flipped Gaborik, thus expanding the use of the Wild player's name to include usage as a verb (ie: "he Gaboriked him"), I would query as to how many would find that as amusing had it been JS Giguere flipping Datsyuk.

Classy fans that we are, we ascertained Marian's well-being before declaring that the move was "the s***" or other current nomenclature. I believe I said it was "groovy". Certainly Hasek meant no harm, but the potential for injury was there. That's hockey, eh.

Contrast this to the occasion when Lapierre injured our beloved captain with what was argued to be a clean hit. Downey made sure that the message was sent that liberties with our star players would be met with swift and sure justice. The Avs called it "classless". We lauded him as the second coming of Probert.

Had Boogaard come out and cast his fists of fury upon Hasek, we would have been up in arms, whereas the Wild fans would have been head-over-heels (having had a visual example) in love with their saviour. We would have decried Boogaard's actions as classless.

We need look no farther than the Wings/Avs battle of yore. The Avs radio stations played recordings of a baby crying claiming it was Draper, who was "whining" about his "boo-boo". When Mac stepped forth to avenge his friend, we cheered our champion. The Avs fans thought the "attack" was classless and brutal. They also thought that Draper was a ninny for not having fought his own battles.

Malkin is a goon for attacking Zetterberg. Lilja is a hero for taking exception to <insert name here and please accept my apologies for gapping> and ends up being the victim of a concussion which ends his season.

It's all perspective. What is heroic to one is goonery to another.

Is this wrong? I don't believe so. I think that this is exactly as it should be. We cheer for our team; they cheer for theirs. We are homers. It is part of sports to support your team.

There is, of course, a limit. I don't think any of us would condone a Prongeresque elbow to the head if it was attached to the arm of a Wing. We would certainly not accept that it was physics that made the player incapable of controlling his own appendage. It's not like it's new equipment. He's had those elbows for quite some time not; he ought to be used to them.

I agree with the OP. We are all homers to some extent. I don't see a problem with this. We're fans.

Go Wings! Get all gritty and kick the crap out of those classless goons who try to kick the crap out of you!

Enough with the logic and rational thought. It's not welcome in this thread.

[jollymania 162]

Then by your logic, Malkin's elbow wasn't classless either; it was just a dumb move that ran the risk of costing 2 minutes? Thanks for helping prove the original premise of the thread. Sorry you had to deal with all the tricky words.

lol, i only agreed to a percentage of your statement and just because i dont view it as classless doesnt mean i view it as grit, if a wings player did it i would view it as my team melting down, i figured i would ignore your trolling remarks and respond to the rational things you had to say, this is the last time i will quote your unwaivering hubris or your doggerel rants

[55fan 5,133]

Enough with the logic and rational thought. It's not welcome in this thread.

With your kind permission, may I please try again? I'll try to fit in.

Here goes:

Pens SUCK! You are all classless goons because you cheer for your classless team. We Wing fans rock because we don't take your crap and we stick up for our guys and we're gonna kick the balls off of you, roast them with yams and eat them for our victory parade breakfast cuz WE'RE CLASSY AND GRITTY!!!!!!!!!

Maybe next time I'll try not to spell correctly, if that would help.

Better?

[Stevie Y 0]

With your kind permission, may I please try again? I'll try to fit in.

Here goes:

Pens SUCK! You are all classless goons because you cheer for your classless team. We Wing fans rock because we don't take your crap and we stick up for our guys and we're gonna kick the balls off of you, roast them with yams and eat them for our victory parade breakfast cuz WE'RE CLASSY AND GRITTY!!!!!!!!!

Maybe next time I'll try not to spell correctly, if that would help.

Better?

Ahh there you go

[Ms_Hockey 0]

I think it's hilarious that 90% of this board doesn't understand that he's pointing out how hypocritical opposing fan-bases are. They see a slash on one of their own players and they call it classless. They see an identical slash on one of the opposition's players and they call it grit.

The fact that some of you couldn't understand that is funny in itself. The fact that you think using long words makes someone cocky is even funnier.

[Electrophile 3,554]

The fact that you think using long words makes someone cocky is even funnier.

No, no it's not. There's a difference between using long words to make your point and then talking down to people like you think they're idiots.

If you don't think that's what the OP was doing, I don't know what you've been reading. Off the top of my head, I can count 5 or 6 posts where he patronized other posters in this thread.

I don't give a damn what you're trying to say if that's how you're saying it.

[Ms_Hockey 0]

No, no it's not. There's a difference between using long words to make your point and then talking down to people like you think they're idiots.

If you don't think that's what the OP was doing, I don't know what you've been reading. Off the top of my head, I can count 5 or 6 posts where he patronized other posters in this thread.

I don't give a damn what you're trying to say if that's how you're saying it.

Fair enough. It just seems to me that he didn't start talking down to people until they started reacting poorly when they couldn't understand what he was saying to begin with.

[Rivalred 630]

[Flintstone Cicarelli 0]

No, no it's not. There's a difference between using long words to make your point and then talking down to people like you think they're idiots.

If you don't think that's what the OP was doing, I don't know what you've been reading. Off the top of my head, I can count 5 or 6 posts where he patronized other posters in this thread.

I don't give a damn what you're trying to say if that's how you're saying it.

You might have wanted to quit this thread while you were still so far behind.

I seem to recall you pulling out the vinegar and water early on and taking this thread for a walk around the lake for a mother/daughter discussion.

[BlakChamber 8]

With your kind permission, may I please try again? I'll try to fit in.

Here goes:

Pens SUCK! You are all classless goons because you cheer for your classless team. We Wing fans rock because we don't take your crap and we stick up for our guys and we're gonna kick the balls off of you, roast them with yams and eat them for our victory parade breakfast cuz WE'RE CLASSY AND GRITTY!!!!!!!!!

Maybe next time I'll try not to spell correctly, if that would help.

Better?

Much better. Carry on.

[55fan 5,133]

No, no it's not. There's a difference between using long words to make your point and then talking down to people like you think they're idiots.

If you don't think that's what the OP was doing, I don't know what you've been reading. Off the top of my head, I can count 5 or 6 posts where he patronized other posters in this thread.

I don't give a damn what you're trying to say if that's how you're saying it.

I didn't find the original post condescending. After people jumped him (her?), and after people ragged about not being able to understand the post, then he (she?) got condescending. I can see why. People have trouble understanding a post that is well-written, but have no trouble deciphering some of the crap that sends my head spinning.

Perhaps the OP would have been better received had his (her?) post read:

OMG u guys r so fukin 2faced u call it classy if it iz ur tem and u say u r gritty but if ohter teems du the same fukin s*** u go apes*** and u call them goons ur so stupid

You have no idea how hard that was to type.

[Flintstone Cicarelli 0]

I didn't find the original post condescending. After people jumped him (her?), and after people ragged about not being able to understand the post, then he (she?) got condescending. I can see why. People have trouble understanding a post that is well-written, but have no trouble deciphering some of the crap that sends my head spinning.

Perhaps the OP would have been better received had his (her?) post read:

OMG u guys r so fukin 2faced u call it classy if it iz ur tem and u say u r gritty but if ohter teems du the same fukin s*** u go apes*** and u call them goons ur so stupid

You have no idea how hard that was to type.

true dat. 4 sho.

[MrB0629 0]

I did not find the original post disrespectful and even agree with it in the first line of my reply (see post #21). I then tried to show the difference in how the two teams dealt with adversity. In the last line I even agree again with the OP.

Why was the subject of the OP's reply dealing with my use of girls’ names and hating women and not the premise of the post? This was asked of me directly. (post #26)

The OP further shows a condescending attitude in post 27. And I too am thankful that you are not a female relative of mine.

Last but not least the OP does not even realize I gave him his first point to begin with in post #63.

GO WINGS! and don't feed the trolls!

[titanium2 867]

With the way that some of the fans on this board have been running away with that term "classy," I wonder if they really know what it means. In a matter of days it's become a cliche. What the Pens did last night was stupid but is it really all that classy to point and laugh at someone who doesn't act as such?

[Guest Shoreline]

I did not find the original post disrespectful and even agree with it in the first line of my reply (see post #21). I then tried to show the difference in how the two teams dealt with adversity. In the last line I even agree again with the OP.

Why was the subject of the OP's reply dealing with my use of girls’ names and hating women and not the premise of the post? This was asked of me directly. (post #26)

The OP further shows a condescending attitude in post 27. And I too am thankful that you are not a female relative of mine.

Last but not least the OP does not even realize I gave him his first point to begin with in post #63.

GO WINGS! and don't feed the trolls!

Indeed true. Hell, searching their posts my suspicions were confirmed about the excessively prudish and ******-like attitude. And really, it's strange, as one person who did get the points made in the OP (as much as I disagree with what most people call 'gritty', and I cringe), particularly the one about fan bias, I have no idea why he's not focusing this sort of clownish behavior upon the Pens boards. Hence not being forthcoming as to the point of posting this.

[Swayze 81]

Mr. Flintstone, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

LMAO, perfect Billy Madison quote XD

[Flintstone Cicarelli 0]

Indeed true. Hell, searching their posts my suspicions were confirmed about the excessively prudish and ******-like attitude. And really, it's strange, as one person who did get the points made in the OP (as much as I disagree with what most people call 'gritty', and I cringe), particularly the one about fan bias, I have no idea why he's not focusing this sort of clownish behavior upon the Pens boards. Hence not being forthcoming as to the point of posting this.

You might be a lost cause. It might be a waste of time trying to instruct you about all that went flying by you in this thread. There is no shame in being as obtuse as you. Head up, chap.