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Questions about Hossa and Pittsburg


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#21 flip

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Posted 07 June 2009 - 11:14 PM

QUOTE (Konnan511 @ June 7, 2009 - 09:11PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A hyes, because other players who are centers don't play wing either right wink.gif


Theirs don't. This was the first season where Malkin displayed any sort of worth playing on the wing instead of center, and Staal has never been able to do so. Add to that the fact that Vancouver had a standing offer for $10m/season, and there's little doubt that Sundin wouldn't have signed with the Pens.

#22 flip

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Posted 07 June 2009 - 11:16 PM

QUOTE (eva unit zero @ June 7, 2009 - 09:14PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sundin has played all three forward positions in his career comfortably.


He's too slow to play wing now. He's almost too slow to play anything. Sundin is not what the Pens were looking for (a winger for Crosby).

#23 Konnan511

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Posted 07 June 2009 - 11:18 PM

QUOTE (titanium2 @ June 8, 2009 - 12:10AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Brian Rolston is who they claim they could've got. Maybe not necessarily for Sid's wing though. Sykora played decent on Sid's wing but he already had good chemistry with Malkin. Someone else could've played on Malkin's wing that would allow Sykora to be on Sid's wing since those two were decent enough together.

They also had a shot at :
Demitra
Bertuzzi
Nolan
Naslund
Huselius
Avery

And not too mention with the cap hit gone of Hossa they were able to sign Satan and Fedotenko
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- Squirrels, they hate to be thrown. / Why is the magical unicorn named Brian... Jedi - I just downloaded the "kids" book, "Go the F--k to Sleep" as narrated by Samuel L. Jackson on my kindle. I am now ready to be a daddy. / *Checks Router* No, I'm positive I didn't hit the "Wings Defense Sucks" button. Electrophile - I'm just glad the Wings were able to win despite the Curse of Brian. ACallToArms - I think Trey needs to put something about payroll tax and deferred income in his sig... Edicius - I'd rather [have] a soundbite of me saying "I like (man sausage)" rather than "I like Crosby".

#24 Lovin Jiri Fischer

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 12:07 AM

Pens fans = Hossa's jealous ex-girlfriends

#25 Greetings from Blueland

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 07:54 AM

QUOTE (MississippiWing @ June 7, 2009 - 11:16PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's great man. The Pitt fans are no worse than the Atlanta fans yelling at Hossa for being a sellout. At least in Atlanta I found a few fans who realized their owners are too cheap to pay for good talent. I don't think you'll find that in Pitt. You should also ask your friend if Robatille and Bourque are sellouts for trying to win a cup before they call it quits


I'm from Atlanta, have his jersey, and was a huge Hossa fan. I have absolutely no hard feelings with him leaving. I understand that it was just business - nothing personal - but the fact remained that there was no way Hossa would have won the cup for us. So, he left. And, in return, we got Christensen (a dud), Armstrong (one of my new favorite players), and a great prospect in Angelo Esposito. As of right now, I think the return for us is shaping up to be worth Hossa's leave.

Also, our owners suck.
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#26 softshoes

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 08:23 AM

QUOTE (flip @ June 8, 2009 - 12:04AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Second day, but the Pens had from the end of the season (or, ostensibly, the second they traded for him) to negotiate with him exclusively. I honestly have a hard time seeing who the Pens "missed out on" by waiting for Hossa, even though Shero was negotiating with multiple players simultaneously. There's no way they were going to offer anything close to what Tampa offered Malone, and most of the other Pens to leave were inconsequential. Ask a Pens fan to identify which players the Pens didn't/couldn't sign because Hossa "led them on." Their silence is your hint that you won the argument.

As an ancillary point, the Pens would be in absolute cap hell if they had signed Hossa, and they would've lost Staal.

What it boils down to is that Hossa played very well for the team, meshed with Crosby better than anyone else has to date (he who makes everyone around him better sure has a difficult time finding someone he's comfortable with), and Pens fans are angry that he didn't stay with their Golden Boy because, in their minds, it's every hockey player's dream to play on Crosby's line.


People have spent a year and thousands of words trying to convey what you just did in a couple paragraphs. Pitt is a very good team so I'd have to say there was more to Hossa leaving than a better chance at a cup. I think using the cup was easier for him to say than what may have been the real reasons for leaving. Of course I'm guessing but that's my take on it.

Hossa chose another team over theirs and they got butt hurt. Now I can't say I wouldn't feel the same, I'm a fan after all and fans are the most irrational people on earth.
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#27 CopenhagenWing

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 10:11 AM

QUOTE (flip @ June 8, 2009 - 12:07AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The last thing the Pens needed was another center.


At least that particular center would know what penalty killing is.


#28 Frozen-Man

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 10:14 AM

QUOTE (titanium2 @ June 8, 2009 - 12:05AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm talking about before when he made that statement, "I'll take a little less to stay on a winning team." It was a tad misleading. Their management planned as if Hossa was going re-sign while he was on the phone with the Wings wondering if he could fit into their roster. Of course, it's not Hossa's fault if the management didn't exactly understand that Hossa didn't specify PIT as the certain team in that public statement. But because Hossa played so well alongside Crosby, he was in quite the position of power because they had tried for years to find someone who could play on Sid's wing. I'm not saying Hossa deserves this or that, but he (or probably his agent) wasn't exactly honest about his intentions.

You could just shrug it off and say, "Well, that's business," but he still didn't exactly do all the right things and if that had happened to the Wings while they were in a rebuilding phase then we would be upset too.


Yeah, I know what you mean but the thing to me is that they had the exclusive rights to negotiate with him up until July 1st. Assuming that they don't negotiate during the playoffs they had from the time that the playoffs ended until July 1st to get a commitment out of him and there should have been nothing to discuss on July 1st. For them they had almost a month to try to hammer out a deal, if they had one in place there is no reason to not sign it first thing in the morning July 1st, if they did not have an agreement in place after almost a month (and with full knowledge that he would be able to sign or explore offers elsewhere - which is really the only reason for him to have not signed as soon as July 1st rolled around unless they thought he was just doing it for leverage in which case they should have known he might leave). I just don't get how there is that much of a problem.

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#29 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 10:32 AM

QUOTE (Tatonka @ June 7, 2009 - 10:48PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just wondering if I am even right in that respect. Pitt didnt make any big moves at the trade deadline either this year did they? was that a money issue as well?

Maybe this (depends on your definition of "big"). From: Pittsburgh Live.
QUOTE
Winger Miroslav Satan has been placed on waivers today by the Penguins. He has 24 hours to clear. If he does not, the Penguins are free to send him to the AHL, where is salary would not count against the NHL's $56.7 million.

QUOTE
Satan signed a one-year, $3.5 million deal with the Penguins as a free agent this summer. He scored his 17th goal Sunday in a win Dallas - his third goal in seven games since interim coach Dan Bylsma replaced Michel Therrien on Feb. 15.

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#30 FireCaptain

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 10:33 AM

I think your thoughts on the Pens fans are wrong.

The playoffs ended on 6/4.

Hossa was quoted on 6/7 stating he would take less money to get the Cup. link

Hossa told the Pens he was checking out his free agency options on 6/21. link

Also of note in the article from 6/21. Shero is noted as saying that the offer from the Pens is subject to change if they start committing money to other contracts before Hossa signs. That doesn't sound like they thought he was going to stay. It sounds like they were going with the Holland/Franzen/Hossa process. Whoever signs first, etc etc.

Free agency didn't start until 7/1.

Hossa signed with the Wings at lunchtime of the second day of free agency. link

The signs were there for a week and a half that he was going elsewhere. If the Pens management couldn't get their brains around that, then they're idiots. If the Pens management was that concerned, they certainly could have given him a deadline to respond to their offer(s). However, they didn't. So, by this logic, shouldn't Pens fans be mad at Pens management instead of Hossa?



QUOTE (titanium2 @ June 7, 2009 - 10:24PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Pens fans aren't really mad at Hossa for leaving. They're mad at the way he left.

By the time Hossa made a decision, most of the other good free agents already had contracts, thus leaving PIT with players that weren't their first or second options.

Now, you could say that Shero should've enforced a deadline on Hossa, but come on. Hossa in their eyes was perfect on Crosby's wing. They had struggled for years to find linemates for Sid and finally they had someone who can play with him. Wouldn't you take that risk of waiting for him?

Thing is, no one wants to ask this question and I don't know why, but why is it so difficult for their management to find players who can play alongside Crosby? They're having cattle call auditions for him while Malkin seems to fit with mostly everybody they've put next to him.

Edited by FireCaptain, 08 June 2009 - 10:38 AM.

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#31 Flintstone Cicarelli

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 10:56 AM

From where I sit, it was Hossa's attitude that got people riled up. He just completed a Cup run with a young and talented team that by all indication would be making many more Cup runs. Instead of seeing the potential in the team, he opted to go with a Detroit team that many feel was aging beyond the ability to make the same runs. It looked as if he traded long term success and hard work for a short-term shot at glory.

Things might have been different if the Pens were a sub .500 team and he was trying to get a Cup before he retired and didn't see it happening in Pittsburgh (ala Tony Gonzales of the KC Chiefs)

Now before I get shelled, this is what the perception was.


#32 Ms_Hockey

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 11:02 AM

QUOTE (Flintstone Cicarelli @ June 8, 2009 - 11:56AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
From where I sit, it was Hossa's attitude that got people riled up. He just completed a Cup run with a young and talented team that by all indication would be making many more Cup runs. Instead of seeing the potential in the team, he opted to go with a Detroit team that many feel was aging beyond the ability to make the same runs. It looked as if he traded long term success and hard work for a short-term shot at glory.

Things might have been different if the Pens were a sub .500 team and he was trying to get a Cup before he retired and didn't see it happening in Pittsburgh (ala Tony Gonzales of the KC Chiefs)

Now before I get shelled, this is what the perception was.

Didn't Pittsburgh only retain one of their UFAs when all was said and done?

It seemed to me he realized that a certain number of people in the locker room would be leaving and as a result, the direction of where the team was headed wasn't clear.
QUOTE (Datsyerberger @ January 19, 2009 - 01:32PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A new Lemieux-McCarty fight, as seen by internet forum posters.

Lemieux cheapshots a player with his walker, drawing the ire of D-Mac, who hobbles over. They draw their canes, salute, and cross them, then proceed to repeatedly whack eachother over the heads while hanging onto the bench with their other hands for balance. D-Mac then hits Lemieux's hip, which gives out, Lemieux feebly falls to the ground, crumpling as D-Mac continues to land barely noticeable Yoda-esque cane strikes. Lemieux's age begins catching up to him, crying "what a world, what a world..!" as he melts into a puddle of goo.

#33 Flintstone Cicarelli

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 11:08 AM

QUOTE (Ms_Hockey @ June 8, 2009 - 12:02PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Didn't Pittsburgh only retain one of their UFAs when all was said and done?

It seemed to me he realized that a certain number of people in the locker room would be leaving and as a result, the direction of where the team was headed wasn't clear.



I guess you could make a case that Malone's certain departure made the team less effective looking in front of the net. I would figure it was more than that for Hossa. The cocah might have been a factor too. The casual fan wouldn't see deeper than Hossa dumping the Pens for another team and feeling betrayed. As you know, the casual fan gets quoted and repeated more than the ones who know better.

#34 BewareThePenguin

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 11:20 AM

QUOTE (FireCaptain @ June 8, 2009 - 11:33AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The signs were there for a week and a half that he was going elsewhere. If the Pens management couldn't get their brains around that, then they're idiots. If the Pens management was that concerned, they certainly could have given him a deadline to respond to their offer(s). However, they didn't. So, by this logic, shouldn't Pens fans be mad at Pens management instead of Hossa?


I love how you Detroit fans think you know the Pens' situation better than Pens fans do.

Oh we should be blaming our own team now? Why -- for believing Hossa's bullcrap he spouted about how he wanted to stay a Penguin, until the last possible minute?

From the Trib article you linked above.

QUOTE
But I'm glad Pittsburgh got me here. This was a fun journey for myself, and a great experience. I hope I can stick with a great team like this. ...


That was Hoser's line the whole way through, until the end, when suddenly he was all about going to Detroit, 'cause you know, time was running out and he felt he wanted to be where he could win the Cup. Til he pulled the rug from out under the Pens.

Face it Wings fans -- Hossa acted like a jerk, no matter how much you want to defend the guy 'cause he plays on your side now. Pens fans have a legit beef with him -- not team management who acted in good faith with his stated desire to stay with the team.

If this Judas had done this to your team, you'd be acting the same way. Gimmee a break with the apologist behavior for this bs'ing traitor.

Edited by BewareThePenguin, 08 June 2009 - 11:22 AM.

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#35 Flintstone Cicarelli

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 11:22 AM

QUOTE
I hope I can stick with a great team like this. ...


that could be read as any great team.



#36 BewareThePenguin

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 11:24 AM

QUOTE (Flintstone Cicarelli @ June 8, 2009 - 11:56AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
From where I sit, it was Hossa's attitude that got people riled up. He just completed a Cup run with a young and talented team that by all indication would be making many more Cup runs. Instead of seeing the potential in the team, he opted to go with a Detroit team that many feel was aging beyond the ability to make the same runs. It looked as if he traded long term success and hard work for a short-term shot at glory.

Things might have been different if the Pens were a sub .500 team and he was trying to get a Cup before he retired and didn't see it happening in Pittsburgh (ala Tony Gonzales of the KC Chiefs)

Now before I get shelled, this is what the perception was.


No, you've summed it up about perfectly.
"Don't think they don't cheat. It's just that we're better at cheating, that's all.''
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#37 BewareThePenguin

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 11:26 AM

QUOTE (Flintstone Cicarelli @ June 8, 2009 - 12:22PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
that could be read as any great team.


You were doing so well...

Ugh.
"Don't think they don't cheat. It's just that we're better at cheating, that's all.''
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#38 BewareThePenguin

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 11:43 AM

QUOTE (Lovin Jiri Fischer @ June 8, 2009 - 01:07AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Pens fans = Hossa's jealous ex-girlfriends


Nothing like someone with the arrogance to tell Pens fans they have no business feeling a certain way.

That applies whether you're trying to take the "logical" approach with quotes and numbers all that, or this guy who's trying the ha-ha route.

Hosser = Jerk. That applies whether he gets to lift the Cup or not.

"Jealous exes"? Nah. Plenty of players have left the Pens. None have ever left with as little class, like Hoser did.

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#39 StormJH1

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 11:47 AM

QUOTE (BewareThePenguin @ June 8, 2009 - 11:20AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I love how you Detroit fans think you know the Pens' situation better than Pens fans do.

Oh we should be blaming our own team now? Why -- for believing Hossa's bullcrap he spouted about how he wanted to stay a Penguin, until the last possible minute?

From the Trib article you linked above.

That was Hoser's line the whole way through, until the end, when suddenly he was all about going to Detroit, 'cause you know, time was running out and he felt he wanted to be where he could win the Cup. Til he pulled the rug from out under the Pens.

Face it Wings fans -- Hossa acted like a jerk, no matter how much you want to defend the guy 'cause he plays on your side now. Pens fans have a legit beef with him -- not team management who acted in good faith with his stated desire to stay with the team.

If this Judas had done this to your team, you'd be acting the same way. Gimmee a break with the apologist behavior for this bs'ing traitor.

You're absolutely right that he would've been booed by Wings fans if the situations had been reversed, but that's not really helpful here. The point isn't that Penguins fans shouldn't be upset--they should be. The point that gets missed is WHY they should be upset:

People call Hossa a "mercenary", but that term couldn't be further from the truth. Apart from the fact that Hossa willingly requested to come to Detroit but never "chose" Pittsburgh to be his team, a mercenary is a person who does things for money with no concern with principle. Clearly, Hossa has principles...he wanted to win a Cup, especially after suffering in Atlanta. And by taking less money to win said Cup, he is by no means being a mercenary.

But the part that REALLY hurts Pens fans is that you're only supposed to ask off of your current team to go to a contender if you're on a team that has no chance of winning . The Pens obviously are a contender for the Cup and will continue to be for many years, but Hossa left that situation anyway because he felt like the Wings were a significantly better organization. I don't dislike the Pens, really, and I think they're good for the NHL, but it's THAT message that Hossa was sending them that is really hitting home. And it's not a message that's usually sent when you're talking about a team (the Pens) that are only two wins away from the Stanley Cup (even if Detroit only needs one).

#40 #18 the _Hoss_

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 11:47 AM







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