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Questions about Hossa and Pittsburg


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#41 zaxx

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 11:52 AM

I readn an article (back when Hos just signed with the Wings) that credited Kopecky with the signing. Tomas works out with Hossa in the off season (countrymen) and told Hos about how great the wings organization is. How wonderful it is to play here, the commitment to the players and to winning. Hossa cited that as one of the reasons he wanted to become a red wing. He has a friend here who he wanted to skate with.

No one faulted scott niedermayer for signing with the ducks so he could win a cup with his brother. I just don't understand why Pens fans are mad that a rental left. We lost big bert, kyle calder, an others and we have a team that contends each year (just like Berg right now) yet we could not keep some players. (We may not have wanted them but still) smile.gif

Hossa went to the wings because he wanted to skate with his friend, he wanted to learn the championship skills from an experienced team and he likely wanted to escape therrien!

#42 BewareThePenguin

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 11:54 AM

QUOTE (StormJH1 @ June 8, 2009 - 12:47PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're absolutely right that he would've been booed by Wings fans if the situations had been reversed, but that's not really helpful here. The point isn't that Penguins fans shouldn't be upset--they should be. The point that gets missed is WHY they should be upset:

People call Hossa a "mercenary", but that term couldn't be further from the truth. Apart from the fact that Hossa willingly requested to come to Detroit but never "chose" Pittsburgh to be his team, a mercenary is a person who does things for money with no concern with principle. Clearly, Hossa has principles...he wanted to win a Cup, especially after suffering in Atlanta. And by taking less money to win said Cup, he is by no means being a mercenary.

But the part that REALLY hurts Pens fans is that you're only supposed to ask off of your current team to go to a contender if you're on a team that has no chance of winning . The Pens obviously are a contender for the Cup and will continue to be for many years, but Hossa left that situation anyway because he felt like the Wings were a significantly better organization. I don't dislike the Pens, really, and I think they're good for the NHL, but it's THAT message that Hossa was sending them that is really hitting home. And it's not a message that's usually sent when you're talking about a team (the Pens) that are only two wins away from the Stanley Cup (even if Detroit only needs one).


I never called Hossa a mercenary. He could go to Ottawa for all I care, for all the money in the world. That would be fine.

Again -- it wasn't THAT Hossa left, it was HOW he left. Instead of just going, he hung around til the last minute, leaving the Pens hanging themselves -- which affected their subsequent free-agent signings. PLUS the fact that Hossa couldn't just leave, no he had to announce to the city why he was doing so, just for an extra little rub-in on the way out. Capisce?

You admit yourself Hossa wasn't leaving some sub-.500 team either.

"Don't think they don't cheat. It's just that we're better at cheating, that's all.''
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#43 BewareThePenguin

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 11:57 AM

QUOTE (zaxx @ June 8, 2009 - 12:52PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I readn an article (back when Hos just signed with the Wings) that credited Kopecky with the signing. Tomas works out with Hossa in the off season (countrymen) and told Hos about how great the wings organization is. How wonderful it is to play here, the commitment to the players and to winning. Hossa cited that as one of the reasons he wanted to become a red wing. He has a friend here who he wanted to skate with.

No one faulted scott niedermayer for signing with the ducks so he could win a cup with his brother. I just don't understand why Pens fans are mad that a rental left. We lost big bert, kyle calder, an others and we have a team that contends each year (just like Berg right now) yet we could not keep some players. (We may not have wanted them but still) smile.gif

Hossa went to the wings because he wanted to skate with his friend, he wanted to learn the championship skills from an experienced team and he likely wanted to escape therrien!


Did Niedermayer announce to his ex-team and their fans "so long suckers, I'm going to where I really have a chance to win the Cup? Nyahhh!" or take negotiations to the last possible minute, just to screw up his old team's FA signings?

Get back to me on that one.
"Don't think they don't cheat. It's just that we're better at cheating, that's all.''
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#44 zaxx

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 12:04 PM

QUOTE (BewareThePenguin @ June 8, 2009 - 10:20AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I love how you Detroit fans think you know the Pens' situation better than Pens fans do.

Oh we should be blaming our own team now? Why -- for believing Hossa's bullcrap he spouted about how he wanted to stay a Penguin, until the last possible minute?

From the Trib article you linked above.



That was Hoser's line the whole way through, until the end, when suddenly he was all about going to Detroit, 'cause you know, time was running out and he felt he wanted to be where he could win the Cup. Til he pulled the rug from out under the Pens.

Face it Wings fans -- Hossa acted like a jerk, no matter how much you want to defend the guy 'cause he plays on your side now. Pens fans have a legit beef with him -- not team management who acted in good faith with his stated desire to stay with the team.

If this Judas had done this to your team, you'd be acting the same way. Gimmee a break with the apologist behavior for this bs'ing traitor.


I feel the need to inform you of a couple of things.

1. NHL rules restrict any teams from talking to potential free agents until their current contracts expire. A team can request permission from the current contract holder for special permission (usually give up a draft pick for this chance) but that is the rule. This means that Hossa not signing before July 1st meant nothing to the Pens. They could not talk to anyone until July 1st so the delay cost them nothing.

2. What someone says to media and the truth is always different. "He has an upper body injury", "I will not change my lines", have you never seen a press conference? Coaches, players and everyone uses the media to get a message out, hide a truth, or misguide the other team. Anything for the edge. In this case Hossa likely wanted to return to Berg but was hoping for a chance to join his friend in Detroit. It is not selfish to want to skate with a good friend. I promise you (without any proof, so grains of salt are all over) Hossa told the Pens management long before July 1st that he was thinking about leaving. Pens Management knew that Hossa wanted to play on Detroit during the trade deadline when he tried to get traded there. The Pens were aware of his desire to skate with Tomas. You have seen the good trades the Pens management has made, they are not stupid. The knew full well they were not likely to get him back. They play it up in themedia to keep people from being mad, but come one give them some credit.

Hossa is not Judas, he did not send anyone to be killed. He simply exercised his right as a veteran player to play hockey for the same team as his friend, and learn what it takes to win the Cup from an organization that has done it.

#45 zaxx

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 12:08 PM

QUOTE (BewareThePenguin @ June 8, 2009 - 10:57AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Did Niedermayer announce to his ex-team and their fans "so long suckers, I'm going to where I really have a chance to win the Cup? Nyahhh!" or take negotiations to the last possible minute, just to screw up his old team's FA signings?

Get back to me on that one.


Read my post (#44) for an explanation of free agent rules in the NHL. Hossa did nothing to prevent the Pens from signing other players.

Also when Hossa spoke of signing with Detroit because he had a better chance to win the cup he was speaking in relation to Edmonton. The Oilers offered him $70 million for 7 years ($10 million per season) to play for them. Hossa then was asked about it and that is where that much over used statement comes from. Hossa signed with Detroit over Edmonton because he felt the Wings organization had a better chance (then Edmonton) of winning a cup. Hossa was right, the Oilers organization is in a heavy rebuilding stage right now.

Edited by zaxx, 08 June 2009 - 12:22 PM.


#46 BewareThePenguin

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 12:30 PM

QUOTE (zaxx @ June 8, 2009 - 01:04PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I feel the need to inform you of a couple of things.

1. NHL rules restrict any teams from talking to potential free agents until their current contracts expire. A team can request permission from the current contract holder for special permission (usually give up a draft pick for this chance) but that is the rule. This means that Hossa not signing before July 1st meant nothing to the Pens. They could not talk to anyone until July 1st so the delay cost them nothing.

2. What someone says to media and the truth is always different. "He has an upper body injury", "I will not change my lines", have you never seen a press conference? Coaches, players and everyone uses the media to get a message out, hide a truth, or misguide the other team. Anything for the edge. In this case Hossa likely wanted to return to Berg but was hoping for a chance to join his friend in Detroit. It is not selfish to want to skate with a good friend. I promise you (without any proof, so grains of salt are all over) Hossa told the Pens management long before July 1st that he was thinking about leaving. Pens Management knew that Hossa wanted to play on Detroit during the trade deadline when he tried to get traded there. The Pens were aware of his desire to skate with Tomas. You have seen the good trades the Pens management has made, they are not stupid. The knew full well they were not likely to get him back. They play it up in themedia to keep people from being mad, but come one give them some credit.

Hossa is not Judas, he did not send anyone to be killed. He simply exercised his right as a veteran player to play hockey for the same team as his friend, and learn what it takes to win the Cup from an organization that has done it.


Let me re-state my stance from another post:

QUOTE
That applies whether you're trying to take the "logical" approach with quotes and numbers all that, or this guy who's trying the ha-ha route.


I see apologist type #1 has weighed in now. Frankly I prefer the jokester approach, at least I get a chance at a little chuckle.

On second thought, I did get a little laugh out of this one:

QUOTE
I promise you (without any proof, so grains of salt are all over) Hossa told the Pens management long before July 1st that he was thinking about leaving.


Again, Wings fans who know the team better than Pens fans. Way to speculate, bud. I promise you (without any proof, grains of salt etc.) that Hossa sprouted wings, and monkeys flew out of his butt on the flight to Detroit, which he made without use of a plane.

Wow, now you know what Hoser said behind the scenes to Pens' management. Move over Syliva Browne, there's a new psychic in town now!

What's the NHL by-law on taking little verbal cheap shots at your ex-team on the way out the door btw? Does it say the player must do that, too?

Seriously, the lengths you people will go to defend this guy now that he's one of yours is amazing. Can't you just admit the possibility he acted like a jerk, and be done with it?

Edited by BewareThePenguin, 08 June 2009 - 12:36 PM.

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#47 flip

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 12:33 PM

Whoever is saying that Hossa couldn't talk to anyone before July 1 is wrong. He couldn't talk to anyone other than the team he was playing for. A team can always talk to a player they have under contract.

#48 zaxx

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 12:52 PM

QUOTE (BewareThePenguin @ June 8, 2009 - 11:30AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Let me re-state my stance from another post:



I see apologist type #1 has weighed in now. Frankly I prefer the jokester approach, at least I get a chance at a little chuckle.

On second thought, I did get a little laugh out of this one:



Again, Wings fans who know the team better than Pens fans. Way to speculate, bud. I promise you (without any proof, grains of salt etc.) that Hossa sprouted wings, and monkeys flew out of his butt on the flight to Detroit, which he made without use of a plane.

Wow, now you know what Hoser said behind the scenes to Pens' management. Move over Syliva Browne, there's a new psychic in town now!

What's the NHL by-law on taking little verbal cheap shots at your ex-team on the way out the door btw? Does it say the player must do that, too?

Seriously, the lengths you people will go to defend this guy now that he's one of yours is amazing. Can't you just admit the possibility he acted like a jerk, and be done with it?



I did not and would never apologize for anything Hossa did. You should not be debating an isue if you state that logical arguments with numbers would never sway you.

I am sorry I did not put "lol" around my grains of salt statement. I was having some fun.

The fact remains that unless Pens management is stupid, they knew Hossa wanted to play in Detroit. Heck Detroit media knew he wanted to play in Detroit, everyone knew except for Pens fans it seems. I will say that we can agree Pens management is not stupid, they must be smart to make the correct moves that got them to the finals 2 years in a row. There is no way that they did not know that Hossa wanted to leave for Detroit. Whether Hossa told them (I would put money on this), or they knew from the trade deadline negotiations when Detroit and Hossa talked at length (TSN spoke about it, if they knew then the Pens GM knew). Somewhere along the way the Pens management knew he wanted to play in Detroit, they would have been planning for the deadline with the assumption that he may leave and looking at this season, they did alright. Suck it up and get over the loss of a rental.

Hossa never said "The Penguins organization suck", or "The Penguins organization is worse then the Wings". He was speaking about an Oilers offer for $10 million that he had turned down when he said that he choose Detroit over the Oilers because they have a better chance at the cup.

I am not defending the guy, these are the facts. If you did not know he was leaving the Pens before the deadline then you must not be reading hockey journalists. Just reading the Pens forums does not count as a source of news.

Edited by zaxx, 08 June 2009 - 12:54 PM.


#49 jjd06e

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 01:15 PM

The thing I find funny is how much Pens fans rip Hossa saying he sucks because he doesnt show up in the postseason. He was in Pitt for one playoff run.

20 games 12 goals 14 assists 26 points

They are really ripping a guy who was probably their best player last year in the postseason

#50 BewareThePenguin

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 01:22 PM

QUOTE (zaxx @ June 8, 2009 - 01:52PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I did not and would never apologize for anything Hossa did. You should not be debating an isue if you state that logical arguments with numbers would never sway you.

I am sorry I did not put "lol" around my grains of salt statement. I was having some fun.

The fact remains that unless Pens management is stupid, they knew Hossa wanted to play in Detroit. Heck Detroit media knew he wanted to play in Detroit, everyone knew except for Pens fans it seems. I will say that we can agree Pens management is not stupid, they must be smart to make the correct moves that got them to the finals 2 years in a row. There is no way that they did not know that Hossa wanted to leave for Detroit. Whether Hossa told them (I would put money on this), or they knew from the trade deadline negotiations when Detroit and Hossa talked at length (TSN spoke about it, if they knew then the Pens GM knew). Somewhere along the way the Pens management knew he wanted to play in Detroit, they would have been planning for the deadline with the assumption that he may leave and looking at this season, they did alright. Suck it up and get over the loss of a rental.

Hossa never said "The Penguins organization suck", or "The Penguins organization is worse then the Wings". He was speaking about an Oilers offer for $10 million that he had turned down when he said that he choose Detroit over the Oilers because they have a better chance at the cup.

I am not defending the guy, these are the facts. If you did not know he was leaving the Pens before the deadline then you must not be reading hockey journalists. Just reading the Pens forums does not count as a source of news.



Wow, where do I begin with this arrogance?

Well first, about that message board thing.... see here we go again, Detroit fans who know more about the Pens than we do. No, contrary to what you think, I didn't need some stinkin' message board -- I, unlike you and your fellow Wings fans, saw all the Hossa interviews on local TV, and read the papers. I put up one quote before from Hossa talking about how swell he thought playing for the Pens was, and how he'd just be tickled if he could get re-signed. (So yeah, I read the "hockey journalists" and all that.) That was pretty much the way he talked all June, spreading roses and perfume about the team. Oh he was just so tickled to be here!

Why then would you assume Pens' management knew he was going to leave?

Any way you look at it, Hossa smells bad here. If he knew he was leaving for Detroit all along, then he just used the Pens for leverage while talking out the other side of his mouth. If he was sincere about how gushy he felt, then he changed his mind at the last second, leaving the team to scramble with its free-agent plans. That's just common decency which would apply to any employee-company relationship. There's a reason companies ask for a two-week notice.

And as for your "he only was speaking about the Oilers" -- nice try. Did he or did he not ALSO have an offer from the Pens? C'mon man.

Again, why can't you just admit the possibility he acted like a ******? And be done with it.

Edited by BewareThePenguin, 08 June 2009 - 01:32 PM.

"Don't think they don't cheat. It's just that we're better at cheating, that's all.''
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#51 BewareThePenguin

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 01:25 PM

QUOTE (jjd06e @ June 8, 2009 - 02:15PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The thing I find funny is how much Pens fans rip Hossa saying he sucks because he doesnt show up in the postseason. He was in Pitt for one playoff run.

20 games 12 goals 14 assists 26 points

They are really ripping a guy who was probably their best player last year in the postseason


No, Pens fans are saying he didn't show up THIS post-season.

Your total off-target take is what I find funny. See, this is a prime example of what I'm talking about. You don't even have a grasp of what we're saying, but still you'll speak for us. Hilarious.

Edited by BewareThePenguin, 08 June 2009 - 01:30 PM.

"Don't think they don't cheat. It's just that we're better at cheating, that's all.''
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#52 StormJH1

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 01:32 PM

QUOTE (BewareThePenguin @ June 8, 2009 - 12:30PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Let me re-state my stance from another post:



I see apologist type #1 has weighed in now. Frankly I prefer the jokester approach, at least I get a chance at a little chuckle.

On second thought, I did get a little laugh out of this one:



Again, Wings fans who know the team better than Pens fans. Way to speculate, bud. I promise you (without any proof, grains of salt etc.) that Hossa sprouted wings, and monkeys flew out of his butt on the flight to Detroit, which he made without use of a plane.

Wow, now you know what Hoser said behind the scenes to Pens' management. Move over Syliva Browne, there's a new psychic in town now!

What's the NHL by-law on taking little verbal cheap shots at your ex-team on the way out the door btw? Does it say the player must do that, too?

Seriously, the lengths you people will go to defend this guy now that he's one of yours is amazing. Can't you just admit the possibility he acted like a jerk, and be done with it?

Okay, so you're not calling him a "mercenary", but you are accusing him of effectively "tampering" with the Pens' ability to sign free agents. Maybe you should have stuck with the mercenary bit.

First of all, "Hossa" is not "one of ours" at this point any more than he was "one of yours" last June! Wings fans understand this because our fanbase has been making relevant deadline deals since the days when it looked like the Kansas City Penguins were a very real possibility. Your deal for Hossa wasn't fundamentally any different than our 2007 deal for Todd Bertuzzi. At the time, people around the league though that you had OVERPAID for Hossa (even though it was only three scrub prospects and a pick) because you weren't trading for Marian Hossa, you were trading for 2+ months of Marian Hossa's services. That's it.

If Hossa was so dedicated to becoming a Penguin, why didn't you sign in April? You are aware that the Red Wings re-signed Zetterberg and Johan Franzen through basically 2020, right? Were you also aware that it's possible to sign players AFTER the trade deadline? Hossa was going to test the market no matter what, but he was being a good "solider" up until July 1st. That's how the game is played!

And like I've said a million times, if Hossa is wearing a different color shirt after July 1 this year, not a single Wing fan should call him a traitor because this was and always has been a deal about THIS YEAR.


#53 StormJH1

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 01:38 PM

QUOTE (BewareThePenguin @ June 8, 2009 - 01:22PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wow, where do I begin with this arrogance?

Well first, about that message board thing.... see here we go again, Detroit fans who know more about the Pens than we do. No, contrary to what you think, I didn't need some stinkin' message board -- I, unlike you and your fellow Wings fans, saw all the Hossa interviews on local TV, and read the papers. I put up one quote before from Hossa talking about how swell he thought playing for the Pens was, and how he'd just be tickled if he could get re-signed. (So yeah, I read the "hockey journalists" and all that.) That was pretty much the way he talked all June, spreading roses and perfume about the team. Oh he was just so tickled to be here!

Why then would you assume Pens' management knew he was going to leave?

Any way you look at it, Hossa smells bad here. If he knew he was leaving for Detroit all along, then he just used the Pens for leverage while talking out the other side of his mouth. If he was sincere about how gushy he felt, then he changed his mind at the last second, leaving the team to scramble with its free-agent plans. That's just common decency which would apply to any employee-company relationship. There's a reason companies ask for a two-week notice.

And as for your "he only was speaking about the Oilers" -- nice try. Did he or did he not ALSO have an offer from the Pens? C'mon man.

Again, why can't you just admit the possibility he acted like a ******? And be done with it.

I'm going to assume that everything you're telling me is the 100% truth. So what!?!

You don't give a "two-week notice" when your EMPLOYEMENT IS ALREADY SCHEDULED TO END as of 7/1/2008!!! What would the notice be?

Hossa: "Um, Mario, I'm going to be a free agent in July, just so you know."
#66: "Oh crap, we didn't sign you back in April? I thought we did a sign and trade or something. No wonder we were able to get you for Angelo Esposito, two scrubs, and a pick. I thought it was weird that Atlanta had to give up Dany Heatley!"

You always say good things about the club you're with, until you're not with that club any more. Otherwise, you look like a jerk, and jerks don't command the type of trust you're looking for when you're shelling out millions of dollars. Hossa did nothing wrong.


#54 StormJH1

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 01:45 PM

QUOTE (BewareThePenguin @ June 8, 2009 - 01:25PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No, Pens fans are saying he didn't show up THIS post-season.

Your total off-target take is what I find funny. See, this is a prime example of what I'm talking about. You don't even have a grasp of what we're saying, but still you'll speak for us. Hilarious.


(By the way, I respect you for coming here and talking to us, and wish you the best of luck in good sportsmanship for the rest of this series and next year, but this topic does get me fired up)

There are many ways a forward can "show up" that don't appear on a scoresheet. This partially explains how Crosby and Malkin can score eleventy billion points during the Eastern Conference Finals, and then run into difficulties playing against Datsyuk and Zetterberg, who elite-level defensive players. Hossa has been a presence in this playoff both defensively and with his puck control while Datsyuk was out, even if his offensive numbers are lower than expected.

The salary cap is the same for every team. While you compare Hossa's $7.4 million contract to his meager goal production and conclude that it's a dissapointment for the Wings, I doubt they'll lose much sleep over that if his presence contributed to our overall depth and a 2nd consecutive Cup.

#55 zaxx

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 01:57 PM

QUOTE (BewareThePenguin @ June 8, 2009 - 12:22PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wow, where do I begin with this arrogance?

Well first, about that message board thing.... see here we go again, Detroit fans who know more about the Pens than we do. No, contrary to what you think, I didn't need some stinkin' message board -- I, unlike you and your fellow Wings fans, saw all the Hossa interviews on local TV, and read the papers. I put up one quote before from Hossa talking about how swell he thought playing for the Pens was, and how he'd just be tickled if he could get re-signed. (So yeah, I read the "hockey journalists" and all that.) That was pretty much the way he talked all June, spreading roses and perfume about the team. Oh he was just so tickled to be here!

Why then would you assume Pens' management knew he was going to leave?

Any way you look at it, Hossa smells bad here. If he knew he was leaving for Detroit all along, then he just used the Pens for leverage while talking out the other side of his mouth. If he was sincere about how gushy he felt, then he changed his mind at the last second, leaving the team to scramble with its free-agent plans. That's just common decency which would apply to any employee-company relationship. There's a reason companies ask for a two-week notice.

And as for your "he only was speaking about the Oilers" -- nice try. Did he or did he not ALSO have an offer from the Pens? C'mon man.

Again, why can't you just admit the possibility he acted like a ******? And be done with it.


Since it was you who made the claim that no amount of logic could sway your thoughts I guess this is a futile attempt to speak to an empty space and expect a response. I must be insane because despite this knowledge I am still talking.

My crack about your message board thing is a shot at all Pens fans who claim to have never had knowledge about Hossa wanting to play for Detroit. If you watched TSNs' trade deadline coverage they spoke about Hossa possibly moving to Detroit. In the off season there were many articles written about the connection between Hossa and the Wings (Tomas). Why can you not admit that everyone involved knew that Hossa wanted to play in Detroit?

You did not know, but you mean nothing in the decision process. The GM's, agents, and everyone knew. This invalidates your argument that Hossa cost them a chance to make other trades. They did not make other trades because they had no one to trade. The Pens lost several UFA's last July 1st and were left with only the ability to sign new players. But they have cap issues caused by having 2 superstar young players tied up long term. It is hard to do and yet they are in the finals again, you should be happy.

Hossa was forced to go to the Pens, while there he discovered that it is a good organization with good respectable fans and he had a great time. Once he was permitted to negotiate with the Wings (July 1st) there was very little in the media about him talking with the Pens. I do not know what happens behind closed doors (as you like to point out), but if the media does not talk about it then there was likely not much. I am sure he enjoyed the respect and experience of playing for the Pens and getting so close to the cup. Why would you feel he was lying when he spoke highly of your organization? There is nothing that has happened to make me think he would hate the Pens... explain why you think he lied. By assuming he lied when he said the Pens are a good organization you are then suggesting that you think the Pens are not a good organization. See how ignoring logic can backfire.

He loved playing for the Pens, but he wanted to play with Tomas his friend. If you had a choice to return to a team full of guys you knew for 4 months or to a team where your closest friend plays which would you choose. Tomas had been bragging about the wings to Hossa for years, he did not hate on the Pens he showed some love to the Wings.

The Pens offered less money then the Oilers. I do not recall exactly what it was, but it was lower. The Pens had salary cap issues and could not offer what the Oilers were putting on the table. He left the big money in Edmonton. That is when he made that statement and that has nothing to do with the Pens. If he did not sign in Detroit he would have signed in Edmonton for big money. He would be making lots of cash right now and still not playing for the Pens. He was going to leave, sure no one know for certain where but the money was on the table and he turned it down to choose Detroit. Even a die hard Pens fan must admit that the Wings were a better choice then the Oilers this year.

Decency is how I would describe Hossa. He spoke about how great the Pens are/were to play for and then looked around for offers when his time there was finished. His contract expired July 1st with nothing tying him to Pittsburgh. He then looked at offers from many teams and accepted one with the Wings, the team he had longed to play for. In the end the Pens could not pay what the Oilers offered, and the Wings had Hossa's friend and a tradition of the most successful franchise of the last 15 years to pull him over.

He did not knock the Pens, get over it!

#56 BewareThePenguin

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 01:59 PM

QUOTE (StormJH1 @ June 8, 2009 - 02:38PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm going to assume that everything you're telling me is the 100% truth. So what!?!

You don't give a "two-week notice" when your EMPLOYEMENT IS ALREADY SCHEDULED TO END as of 7/1/2008!!! What would the notice be?

Hossa: "Um, Mario, I'm going to be a free agent in July, just so you know."
#66: "Oh crap, we didn't sign you back in April? I thought we did a sign and trade or something. No wonder we were able to get you for Angelo Esposito, two scrubs, and a pick. I thought it was weird that Atlanta had to give up Dany Heatley!"

You always say good things about the club you're with, until you're not with that club any more. Otherwise, you look like a jerk, and jerks don't command the type of trust you're looking for when you're shelling out millions of dollars. Hossa did nothing wrong.


One prob, bud -- his current contract with the Pens was schedule to end on that date. That doesn't necessarily mean his term with the Pens is up. If he'd agree beforehand to resign, he's still a Pen regardless. See the diff?

The point of the 2-week notice is just a courtesy -- the spirit of giving your employer a chance to hire somebody new during your transition period while you stay on. Hossa denied that to the Pens by stalling and waiting til the last moment up til 7/1. That's like walking into your boss's office on Thursday at 4:59 p.m. and saying "see ya later bud, I won't be tomorrow 'cuz I quit."

Like I said, Hossa smells bad no matter how you slice this.
"Don't think they don't cheat. It's just that we're better at cheating, that's all.''
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#57 BewareThePenguin

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 02:00 PM

QUOTE (zaxx @ June 8, 2009 - 02:57PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Since it was you who made the claim that no amount of logic could sway your thoughts I guess this is a futile attempt to speak to an empty space and expect a response. I must be insane because despite this knowledge I am still talking.

My crack about your message board thing is a shot at all Pens fans who claim to have never had knowledge about Hossa wanting to play for Detroit. If you watched TSNs' trade deadline coverage they spoke about Hossa possibly moving to Detroit. In the off season there were many articles written about the connection between Hossa and the Wings (Tomas). Why can you not admit that everyone involved knew that Hossa wanted to play in Detroit?

You did not know, but you mean nothing in the decision process. The GM's, agents, and everyone knew. This invalidates your argument that Hossa cost them a chance to make other trades. They did not make other trades because they had no one to trade. The Pens lost several UFA's last July 1st and were left with only the ability to sign new players. But they have cap issues caused by having 2 superstar young players tied up long term. It is hard to do and yet they are in the finals again, you should be happy.

Hossa was forced to go to the Pens, while there he discovered that it is a good organization with good respectable fans and he had a great time. Once he was permitted to negotiate with the Wings (July 1st) there was very little in the media about him talking with the Pens. I do not know what happens behind closed doors (as you like to point out), but if the media does not talk about it then there was likely not much. I am sure he enjoyed the respect and experience of playing for the Pens and getting so close to the cup. Why would you feel he was lying when he spoke highly of your organization? There is nothing that has happened to make me think he would hate the Pens... explain why you think he lied. By assuming he lied when he said the Pens are a good organization you are then suggesting that you think the Pens are not a good organization. See how ignoring logic can backfire.

He loved playing for the Pens, but he wanted to play with Tomas his friend. If you had a choice to return to a team full of guys you knew for 4 months or to a team where your closest friend plays which would you choose. Tomas had been bragging about the wings to Hossa for years, he did not hate on the Pens he showed some love to the Wings.

The Pens offered less money then the Oilers. I do not recall exactly what it was, but it was lower. The Pens had salary cap issues and could not offer what the Oilers were putting on the table. He left the big money in Edmonton. That is when he made that statement and that has nothing to do with the Pens. If he did not sign in Detroit he would have signed in Edmonton for big money. He would be making lots of cash right now and still not playing for the Pens. He was going to leave, sure no one know for certain where but the money was on the table and he turned it down to choose Detroit. Even a die hard Pens fan must admit that the Wings were a better choice then the Oilers this year.

Decency is how I would describe Hossa. He spoke about how great the Pens are/were to play for and then looked around for offers when his time there was finished. His contract expired July 1st with nothing tying him to Pittsburgh. He then looked at offers from many teams and accepted one with the Wings, the team he had longed to play for. In the end the Pens could not pay what the Oilers offered, and the Wings had Hossa's friend and a tradition of the most successful franchise of the last 15 years to pull him over.

He did not knock the Pens, get over it!


Translation: he plays for my team now, he can do no wrong.
"Don't think they don't cheat. It's just that we're better at cheating, that's all.''
--Dan Cleary

#58 go19wings

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 02:03 PM

Pens fans are just mad that they got Hoss in a trade for a guy who turned out to be great when he was with another team, and then Hossa left them with nothing to show for their trade. Sucks for them but those are the kind of risks you take when trading players halfway through the season.
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"I don't have any percentage. How much I have, I try to play with it."

#59 BewareThePenguin

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 02:07 PM

QUOTE (StormJH1 @ June 8, 2009 - 02:32PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Okay, so you're not calling him a "mercenary", but you are accusing him of effectively "tampering" with the Pens' ability to sign free agents. Maybe you should have stuck with the mercenary bit.

First of all, "Hossa" is not "one of ours" at this point any more than he was "one of yours" last June! Wings fans understand this because our fanbase has been making relevant deadline deals since the days when it looked like the Kansas City Penguins were a very real possibility. Your deal for Hossa wasn't fundamentally any different than our 2007 deal for Todd Bertuzzi. At the time, people around the league though that you had OVERPAID for Hossa (even though it was only three scrub prospects and a pick) because you weren't trading for Marian Hossa, you were trading for 2+ months of Marian Hossa's services. That's it.

If Hossa was so dedicated to becoming a Penguin, why didn't you sign in April? You are aware that the Red Wings re-signed Zetterberg and Johan Franzen through basically 2020, right? Were you also aware that it's possible to sign players AFTER the trade deadline? Hossa was going to test the market no matter what, but he was being a good "solider" up until July 1st. That's how the game is played!

And like I've said a million times, if Hossa is wearing a different color shirt after July 1 this year, not a single Wing fan should call him a traitor because this was and always has been a deal about THIS YEAR.


Again, and for the millionth time -- it's not about him leaving for another team. It's HOW he went about it that's stuck in some people's craws.

You guys are trying to have it both ways. On the one hand, so many fans here are delighting in the thought of Hossa winning the Cup and rubbing it in to Pens fans. On the other hand, you all want to claim Pens fans have no right to gripe about Hossa in the first place. Well how can that be? By acknowledging Pens fans would be ticked off, you admit there was something there to make them ticked off in the first place. See what I mean?

It's like it's not enough that your guys win, they also have to be the "good guys," the angels who never do any wrong.
Pardon me while I sit back and chuckle at that thought.

Kind of like saying there really IS a tooth fairy, and Franzen never dives. I mean, c'mon...
"Don't think they don't cheat. It's just that we're better at cheating, that's all.''
--Dan Cleary

#60 BewareThePenguin

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 02:08 PM

QUOTE (go19wings @ June 8, 2009 - 03:03PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Pens fans are just mad that they got Hoss in a trade for a guy who turned out to be great when he was with another team, and then Hossa left them with nothing to show for their trade. Sucks for them but those are the kind of risks you take when trading players halfway through the season.


Another rationalizer who knows more about Pens fans than Pens fans themselves. Glad to have you aboard!
"Don't think they don't cheat. It's just that we're better at cheating, that's all.''
--Dan Cleary





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