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Questions about Hossa and Pittsburg


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#81 FireCaptain

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 05:55 AM

BewareThePenguin,

Keep your chin up, there's good news.

At the end of this month, Hossa, Chelios and Conklin (and possibly a few select other Red Wings) will all be available as free agents. And at that point, they'll all have "valuable cup winning experience".

Feel free to sign away.

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#82 betterREDthandead

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 06:07 AM

QUOTE (scsplayer2 @ June 8, 2009 - 06:09PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ok, I've been reading threads for a while now on this board, but I never took the time to register. But I just had to register to post on this topic. Just so everyone knows I'm a die hard Red Wings fan and have been for a long time, and I think its time to put this to rest.

Check this link Penguins fans:
http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=3455558

That is an article on JUNE 22, 2008! Hossa told Ray Shero he was going to test free agency. So saying he cost you guys anyone is ridiculous. He told you well before free agency started that he was possibly leaving. This is Shero's fault not Hossa's. If a player says i'm not sure i'll let you know after I get other offers, you have to know his heart isn't there. You have to move on. You had plenty of time to sign the guys that you had under contract that would be free agents, and you had time to determine who you wanted to go after on July 1st. So stop saying he cost you guys anyone.

Bravo for that link. BewareThePenguin, you've said repeatedly it's about how Hossa left, but if you've gone into detail about that, I've missed it.
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#83 Greetings from Blueland

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 11:07 AM

QUOTE (StormJH1 @ June 8, 2009 - 02:38PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm going to assume that everything you're telling me is the 100% truth. So what!?!

You don't give a "two-week notice" when your EMPLOYEMENT IS ALREADY SCHEDULED TO END as of 7/1/2008!!! What would the notice be?

Hossa: "Um, Mario, I'm going to be a free agent in July, just so you know."
#66: "Oh crap, we didn't sign you back in April? I thought we did a sign and trade or something. No wonder we were able to get you for Angelo Esposito, two scrubs, and a pick. I thought it was weird that Atlanta had to give up Dany Heatley!"

You always say good things about the club you're with, until you're not with that club any more. Otherwise, you look like a jerk, and jerks don't command the type of trust you're looking for when you're shelling out millions of dollars. Hossa did nothing wrong.


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#84 zaxx

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 11:38 AM

We are going to have to hear the announcers talking about Hossa all night tonight and it always annoys me that thePens fans hate Hossa. Here is some more links to back up what we are saying:

From wikipdeia: (http://en.wikipedia....i/Marián_Hossa)
QUOTE
Despite a reported five-year contract offer worth $7 million annually from the Penguins in attempts to retain his services, on July 1, 2008, Hossa signed a one-year deal with the Detroit Red Wings worth $7.45 million. Hossa had also reportedly turned down a multi-year offer from the Edmonton Oilers worth at least $9 million per season.


Right wikipedia is user editable so is lying, so from their source. Some group named TSN: (http://tsn.ca/nhl/st...s=topStory_main)

QUOTE
Hossa had reportedly received offers from Edmonton, Montreal, Vancouver and Pittsburgh. The Oilers were rumoured to be offering a deal that would pay $9 million annually to lure Hossa to northern Alberta.


Pittsburgh was offering less then the other teams, this tells me they either could not afford to keep him or really did not want him. The fans liked the guy but the organization wanted depth over Hossa and I think they made a good decision (got them back to the big game right). Hossa choose Detroit (and lower salary) over the Oilers and a much higher payday. The Pens did not bid high enough for Hossa to be too concerned.

#85 ilmickeyli

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 11:57 AM

What are some teams that can afford Hossa next year (assuming he cant re-sign)? We want depth, as much as I love Hossa, we'd give up a lot for him.
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#86 BewareThePenguin

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 02:08 PM

QUOTE (betterREDthandead @ June 9, 2009 - 07:07AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Bravo for that link. BewareThePenguin, you've said repeatedly it's about how Hossa left, but if you've gone into detail about that, I've missed it.


Yeah, bravo for that link indeed. For here is the main point:

QUOTE
"I got an answer from Hossa. He's going to July 1," Shero said Saturday after the final day of the NHL draft. "He tells us we look to be his first choice, but I believe he's going to go to July 1 just to make sure, and we'll see where that brings both of us.


Fits in exactly with what I've been saying -- Hossa talked sunshine and roses and wanted to stay in wonderful Pittsburgh playing with wonderful Crosby the whole time, right until he suddenly always just wanted to play for the Wings.

"Just wants to be sure" -- as in, I know what I want, but let me look one more time to confirm. As in sure I'll look at free agency, but you know where my heart is -- what part of "my first choice" don't you get? Doesn't sound like a guy likely to be signing elsewhere, now, does it?

"You're my first choice, Pittsburgh" -- right from Hossa himself.

And as I've said before, it's not just that he left, it's how -- he could've just thanked the city for his time here, or even just left quietly. Instead, he had to deliver that little jab about how he wanted to go where he could win the Cup, and all. If he'd said that about your team, you'd have an issue with it. So please, enough of the whole "what's your prob, dude?" mentality here.

Edited by BewareThePenguin, 09 June 2009 - 02:13 PM.

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#87 Opie

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 02:12 PM

When a player says I am going to July 1 as a fan that says to me he is going UFA, anyone else get that?

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#88 Dabura

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 02:13 PM

QUOTE (BewareThePenguin @ June 9, 2009 - 02:08PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hossa talked sunshine and roses and wanted to stay in wonderful Pittsburgh playing with wonderful Crosby the whole time


How do you get that from Shero saying, "He says we look to be his first choice"? For all we know, Hossa didn't even say that and Shero was just playing the good ole public relations game.

You really need to get over it.

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#89 Echolalia

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 02:39 PM

QUOTE (BewareThePenguin @ June 9, 2009 - 03:08PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"Just wants to be sure" -- as in, I know what I want, but let me look one more time to confirm. As in sure I'll look at free agency, but you know where my heart is -- what part of "my first choice" don't you get? Doesn't sound like a guy likely to be signing elsewhere, now, does it?


"Just wants to be sure" sounds exactly like a guy who is thinking of signing elsewhere. That's a fair warning as any to Shero that he plans on talking to some other teams. In fact, if I was GM, I would think it would be my responsibility to have a back up plan or two on the case that Hossa does leave, beacuse, you know, he did just state he wants to see what's on the table.

#90 BowHuntingFool

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 02:48 PM

QUOTE (Opie @ June 9, 2009 - 02:12PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
When a player says I am going to July 1 as a fan that says to me he is going UFA, anyone else get that?



I think EVERYONE gets that except for the delusional Pens fan who can't get past the fact.


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#91 softshoes

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 02:54 PM

There is more traffic on this board about Hossa/traitor than on the couple Pitt boards I've lurked the last few days. I guess I know why this troll hasn't let this one go. We've humored this one way to long.

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#92 LeftWinger

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 03:01 PM

QUOTE (FireCaptain @ June 9, 2009 - 06:55AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
BewareThePenguin,

Keep your chin up, there's good news.

At the end of this month, Hossa, Chelios and Conklin (and possibly a few select other Red Wings) will all be available as free agents. And at that point, they'll all have "valuable cup winning experience".

Feel free to sign away.

Why don't you guys have any faith that Hossa is staying? You don't believe that the contract is done just not signed yet because of league rules? This guy has ALWAYS wanted to be a Wing, every tradeline has him coming to Detroit, but the price is too high. Now he is here, he says he'll take less to be here, his agent says the Cap issue won't be an issue at all. Do you really think he'll take his Cup and run? I want to watch all the crow being eaten come draft day, whereafter Hossa gets inked to his 7 year deal. Better start looking up recipes!

Edited by LeftWinger, 09 June 2009 - 03:01 PM.

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#93 LeftWinger

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 03:04 PM

QUOTE (ilmickeyli @ June 9, 2009 - 12:57PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What are some teams that can afford Hossa next year (assuming he cant re-sign)? We want depth, as much as I love Hossa, we'd give up a lot for him.

So, everything we've explained to you in the other thread just went in one eye and out the other then?

The ONLY young guy you sacrifice is Hudler. PERIOD.

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#94 BewareThePenguin

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 03:37 PM

QUOTE (Dabura @ June 9, 2009 - 03:13PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How do you get that from Shero saying, "He says we look to be his first choice"? For all we know, Hossa didn't even say that and Shero was just playing the good ole public relations game.

You really need to get over it.


So the article is golden when some Wings fan here posts it -- "bravo!" and all that.

Until I pick out the money quote which perfectly makes my case, and now you can want to doubt the sincerity of the source?

Don't think I need to "get over" anything except how amazing you Hossa apologists are. And what lengths you'll go to to defend him, now that he's in a Wings uni.

Edited by BewareThePenguin, 09 June 2009 - 03:40 PM.

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#95 BewareThePenguin

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 03:40 PM

QUOTE (BowHuntingFool @ June 9, 2009 - 03:48PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think EVERYONE gets that except for the delusional Pens fan who can't get past the fact.


When a player tells a team they're his "first choice," you generally expect there's a probability he'll sign with you.

"Delusional"?

Oh man.
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#96 Opie

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 03:44 PM

QUOTE (BewareThePenguin @ June 9, 2009 - 08:40PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
When a player tells a team they're his "first choice," you generally expect there's a probability he'll sign with you.

"Delusional"?

Oh man.


We LOOK to be his first choice.

That doesn't exactly exude confidence, if Ken H said that I would assume Hossa is gone!

Looks like You are my #1, I am waiting for a better offer than I currently have.

I want to play here, I sign here.

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"When I was looking for a captain, I wanted a guy with the Red Wings crest tattooed on his chest," said former Detroit coach Jacques Demers, who named Yzerman captain in 1986. "Steve Yzerman was that guy."

“Told him if he wasn't ultra-competitive he couldn't come here. If he didn't bring it every day he couldn't come here, because he was going to hate it if he didn't, dislike the coach and dislike playing here.
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#97 Echolalia

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 03:45 PM

QUOTE (BewareThePenguin @ June 9, 2009 - 04:40PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
When a player tells a team they're his "first choice," you generally expect there's a probability he'll sign with you.

"Delusional"?

Oh man.


You also need to expect that there's a probability that he'll not sign with you when he says he wants to see what's on the market July 1st. You seem to be mistaking "first choice" with "only choice, I promise."


#98 LeftWinger

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 05:02 PM

and we as Wings fans aren't as upset when our (undrafted) ufa's leave us after they say they want to stay. ie. Schneider, Bertuzzi, shoot not even Shanahan. We felt more double-crossed when the likes of Fedorov, LaPointe and Dandenault (no so much) left. Dude, get over Hossa, HE WAS A RENTAL!!! You will sting more when Scuderi leaves, trust me! Didn't it hurt more when Malone left? We will intially be upset if Hossa leaves, but you know what, in the end, we won playing against him, we're gonna win playing with him, if he leaves, we'll still win. I don't even think he'd warrant boos when he came back to the Joe. It's different when someone helps you win, ie. Hull, Robitaille, Chelios, they all got cheered (Chelios if he plays somewhere should too.) He wouldn't be leaving as a rental. None of the players I mentioned were rentals. Robitaille would be the closest since he was only here for two season. But Hossa was there for 4 months? That'd be like us getting mad when Dmitri Mironov didn't resign, or Slegr... Get over it... You get nothing, you lose, good day sir!

Edited by LeftWinger, 09 June 2009 - 05:03 PM.

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#99 UKWING

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 05:33 PM

QUOTE (BewareThePenguin @ June 9, 2009 - 09:40PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
When a player tells a team they're his "first choice," you generally expect there's a probability he'll sign with you.

"Delusional"?

Oh man.

of course there was a probability he would sign with the pens but it was not a certainty and shero knew that:

"I got an answer from Hossa. He's going to July 1......But as I told him, once you go down this route for both sides there's risk involved. I think it's important for him to know that he's our first priority as a UFA but if it doesn't work out for both of us, it's not meant to be and we'll be ready to move on."

so to say that hossa strung you along and left you scrambling to sign free agents is inaccurate - shero knew he was going to test free agency and might sign elsewhere and said that he would "be ready to move on" if that happened.

however, i do understand why pens fans are mad - he turned down their offer and joined the team that had just beaten them, stating that he felt he had a better chance of winning in detroit. i would have been pissed off if the roles were reversed too. i seem to remember a lot of wings fans being angry when bertuzzi and shneider joined anaheim after they beat us in 2007 - and neither of them was anywhere near as good as hossa.

#100 Frozen-Man

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 05:40 PM

QUOTE (BewareThePenguin @ June 9, 2009 - 03:08PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah, bravo for that link indeed. For here is the main point:

Fits in exactly with what I've been saying -- Hossa talked sunshine and roses and wanted to stay in wonderful Pittsburgh playing with wonderful Crosby the whole time, right until he suddenly always just wanted to play for the Wings.

"Just wants to be sure" -- as in, I know what I want, but let me look one more time to confirm. As in sure I'll look at free agency, but you know where my heart is -- what part of "my first choice" don't you get? Doesn't sound like a guy likely to be signing elsewhere, now, does it?


That is just a silly argument and your two statements contradict each other. If Hossa was so sure that he wanted to stay in Pitt why did he want to "look one more time to confirm?" Not to mention that your made up statement "look one more time to confirm" makes no sense either. It couldn't have been one MORE time because he said it before free agency started and no other team was allowed to negotiate with him yet. If anything it meant I like your offer but I am going to get a look FOR THE FIRST TIME and see if I have any better options.

QUOTE (BewareThePenguin @ June 9, 2009 - 03:08PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"You're my first choice, Pittsburgh" -- right from Hossa himself.


Even the Pens GM is not stupid enough to have believed that. If Pitt was his first choice no matter what there would be no reason to see what his options were in free agency. I believe that had the Wings not been able to work Hossa in he would have signed with Pitt but he didn't want to commit to them until he had looked at his other options and the Pens GM KNEW THAT back on the 22nd of June when Hossa wouldn't commit but rather informed them he wanted to look at his options - basically telling them that he was going to shop around and consider his options and if there was a better one he would take it. Why would he say I want to see what my options are if he had no intention to consider other options - that is just stupid and totally unbelievable.

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