wingfanatic4alltime 32 Report post Posted June 9, 2009 Now my buddy and me were having a argument about that i posed the question to him should the rules be changed in determining the conn smyth winner so it only goes to the winning team. I said yes because whoever wins the cup is the best team in the NHL correct? and the conn smyth is the Most Valuable Player in the Playoffs my point was how can u give someone the Conn Smyth when there team didnt even win the cup. My buddy disagrees 100% with me. what are ur opinions on this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain_Yzerman19 1 Report post Posted June 9, 2009 Well, ask your buddy this: "If Ovechkin scores 65 goals and 127 points, but the Caps miss the playoffs, should he win the Hart?" And if he says no, then you make your point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Redwingsfan18 1 Report post Posted June 9, 2009 JS Giguere won it in 2003 (I think that's the right year) against the Devils after it went to 7 games. So the winning team doesn't always have the Conn Smyth winner. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teebo 22 Report post Posted June 9, 2009 Now my buddy and me were having a argument about that i posed the question to him should the rules be changed in determining the conn smyth winner so it only goes to the winning team. I said yes because whoever wins the cup is the best team in the NHL correct? and the conn smyth is the Most Valuable Player in the Playoffs my point was how can u give someone the Conn Smyth when there team didnt even win the cup. My buddy disagrees 100% with me. what are ur opinions on this? so you must also think the hart trophy should go to someone on the team that won the presidents trophy? since they are the best regular season team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingfanatic4alltime 32 Report post Posted June 9, 2009 so you must also think the hart trophy should go to someone on the team that won the presidents trophy? since they are the best regular season team. Not necessarily but i do think that the Hart should not go to a player who's team isnt in the playoffs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mjolman 0 Report post Posted June 9, 2009 I think it should go to the player who is most valuable to his team during a playoff run. Wait isn't that the way it is? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2forinterferance 0 Report post Posted June 9, 2009 Not necessarily but i do think that the Hart should not go to a player who's team isnt in the playoffs What does winning the hart trophy have anything to do with making the playoffs or not? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevie for president 42 Report post Posted June 9, 2009 the problem is malkin more valuable to his team than any red wing is to his team, so theorhetically malkin should win the conn smythe, but ideally it would go to a wing if the wings can win another game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
themule0932 0 Report post Posted June 9, 2009 For the Hart, I think it should be a person who a team in the playoffs could not get to the playoffs without(Steve Mason this year for the Blue Jackets). So I am saying it should most likely go to a person on a team who is 6-8 seed. As for Conn Smyth, it should be to the person who preformed the best in the playoffs and who has carried a team. A person whose team would most likely not be in the finals if it were not for them (Malkin for the Penguins because without him they would most likely not even of made it out of the first round). That is all my personal opinion so feel free to rip on me if you want. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ComradeWasabi 109 Report post Posted June 9, 2009 The language for the Hart and Conn Smythe is vague. The Hart generally goes to the "best" player in the NHL, but its criteria is the player who is deemed most valuable to his team in the league, meaning that the award should probably go to someone whose team could not win without them. For example, Mason in Columbus, Kovy in Atlanta, Ovechkin certainly.. The Conn has the same language in its criteria so "who should win it" is rather murky. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z and D for the C 712 Report post Posted June 9, 2009 For someone fromt he losing team to get it he'd have to be head over heels better than anyone else. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HomeNugget 2 Report post Posted June 9, 2009 I like the way it is now. A player from the winning team always gets it unless the losing goalie is clearly the only reason his team is in the finals, or a losing forward establishes new playoff scoring records. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
djohns74 3 Report post Posted June 9, 2009 For the Hart, I think it should be a person who a team in the playoffs could not get to the playoffs without(Steve Mason this year for the Blue Jackets). So I am saying it should most likely go to a person on a team who is 6-8 seed. As for Conn Smyth, it should be to the person who preformed the best in the playoffs and who has carried a team. A person whose team would most likely not be in the finals if it were not for them (Malkin for the Penguins because without him they would most likely not even of made it out of the first round). That is all my personal opinion so feel free to rip on me if you want. I agree on the Smythe for sure, I was going to say pretty much the same thing. For the Hart... that's a bit of a gray area, a case could definitely be made for what you're saying, but I don't see a reason to consider 6-8 seeds any higher than others. But that's not really the issue here. For the Smythe, I'm totally with you, if a certain player stands out as having carried his team to the Finals, he should be considered, win or lose (i.e., Giguere in 2003). Malkin probably ought to be a candidate this year, by that criteria, and Crosby should not simply because of how effectively the Wings can shut him down on home ice. The question is, does Osgood qualify under that criteria? I say yes, he does. That being said, there is no "rule" about who can win it and the losing team should be considered because of the example of Giguere in '03. Take him out of the equation and the Ducks most certainly do not sweep the Wings, and almost certainly don't make it all the way to the Finals. He carried that team, period. Individual performances like that are what this trophy is all about, it's just that more often than not, the team with the individual that stands out like that is the one that goes on to win too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rivalred 630 Report post Posted June 9, 2009 Those SOB's Malkin and Crosby do not deserve it.... Plain and simple... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catbox_9 1 Report post Posted June 9, 2009 I don't care what the team is like that the Hart winner goes to, but I don't really like the Conn Smythe to go to any player who did not win the Stanley Cup. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seraph 240 Report post Posted June 9, 2009 It's not the most valuable player of the best team, just the most valuable player. And that can easily be from the opposite team. It's just a matter of how spread apart your talent is. If one guy is pulling a lot of weight, he should be given consideration. I highly doubt though, that they'd give it to the opposite team unless it was a real grueling 7 game series in the final or something. My fear is that they'll give it to Crosby or Malkin this year. I don't want their s*** anywhere near those trophies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain_Yzerman19 1 Report post Posted June 9, 2009 You could argue that if Brett Lebda scores the Cup Clinching goal, that he wins it, since he was most valuable, in scoring the winning goal, not? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PDX Wingman 0 Report post Posted June 9, 2009 Considering the fact that more than 20 guys play for each team during the playoffs and none of them ever play even half of the minutes in a game, I have no problem with the Conn Smythe going to a player from a team that didn't win the Cup if his stats are remarkable enough. If the Wings win this season, for example, Malkin would be a really good candidate for the trophy. Not just because of his outstanding production but also because no one player has really stood out for Detroit (you could make a strong argument for at least four Wings, in my opinion). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
themule0932 0 Report post Posted June 9, 2009 Or just have the Conn Smyth become a team trophy going to the winning team. Without those players, that team would not of won the cup. Maybe too simple? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheOwl 77 Report post Posted June 9, 2009 I said yes because whoever wins the cup is the best team in the NHL correct? and the conn smyth is the Most Valuable Player in the Playoffs my point was how can u give someone the Conn Smyth when there team didnt even win the cup. I agree with you to an extent, as does the NHL. But in certain cases, such as when Geguire won it, he for sure deserved it. If the Wings win tomorrow, Zetterberg or Osgood should win. But if Crosby and or Malkin single handedly push it to a Game 7, one of them should win. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
06TJSport 0 Report post Posted June 9, 2009 Or just have the Conn Smyth become a team trophy going to the winning team. Without those players, that team would not of won the cup. Maybe too simple? They have a trophy for that, it's called the Stanley Cup..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nosyt612 103 Report post Posted June 9, 2009 The Conn Smythe already almost always goes to the winning team anyway, it's been given out since 65 and only 3 times has it gone to the losing team, and in all those cases it has been their goalie. Giguere and Hextal won it, i cant remember the third one. In this case it simply will not go to the losing team, while Osgood has been great he in no way deserves it over Malking if the pens go on to win the cup, and Fleury doesn't have a chnce of winning the trophy in any realistic outcome. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
06TJSport 0 Report post Posted June 9, 2009 The Conn Smythe already almost always goes to the winning team anyway, it's been given out since 65 and only 3 times has it gone to the losing team, and in all those cases it has been their goalie. Giguere and Hextal won it, i cant remember the third one. In this case it simply will not go to the losing team, while Osgood has been great he in no way deserves it over Malking if the pens go on to win the cup, and Fleury doesn't have a chnce of winning the trophy in any realistic outcome. It's gone to the losing team 5 times, 4 times to the goaltender (Roger Crozier and Glenn Hall are the two you are missing) and once to a forward, Reggie Leach If the Wings win then the only Penguin I see with a shot to win it would be Malkin. If the Pens win then, obviously, Malkin would get it barring Crosby taking over and willing the Pens to the two straight victories they need. I don't see a Wing being able to stake claim to a legitimate reason to break from tradition. If they really want to break from tradition though, they could give it to Ovechkin. I mean he is still in the Top 5 goal scorers in the post season and the Caps have been out for two rounds and without him, I don't know if the Caps get out of the first round. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mudvayneowns91 0 Report post Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) You could argue that if Brett Lebda scores the Cup Clinching goal, that he wins it, since he was most valuable, in scoring the winning goal, not? I haven't been on in awhile, but apparently Lebda is still this sites whipping boy (I'm sure Sammy too) . However, I do get your poiy. I'm just saying Lebda has been pretty solid as a 4/5th d-man. Edited June 9, 2009 by Mudvayneowns91 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightfall 871 Report post Posted June 9, 2009 I like the way it is now. A player from the winning team always gets it unless the losing goalie is clearly the only reason his team is in the finals, or a losing forward establishes new playoff scoring records. Malkins 14 goals and 21 assists are the best in the last 10 years. In fact, no one has topped 30 points in the last 10 years. Malkin has made his case for the Conn Smyth and I certainly wouldn't complain if he won it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites