Refs favor Crosby Malkin

[Guest Shoreline]

Of course it's looked at more closely when a team loses, that's because a lot of times the s***ty calls helped the loss become possible. Just because people don't ***** about it when they win doesn't mean there weren't any bad calls against them.

2nd paragraph is your opinion on how it went down, and I disagree. It's a perfect example of a player taking advantage and then getting let off the hook.

Your utter dismissal of any and all things "conspiracy" or "favoritism" is silly. Especially when that NBA ref was busted doing exactly that. You don't think this type of thing happens in the NHL when it happened in a way more lucrative league such as the NBA? His testimony was very telling in that leagues could encourage manipulation of games (is that "evidence"?). I wonder if there were people like you telling NBA fans about how conspiracies and favoritism are bulls*** before that ref was busted?

esteef

edit: spelling

An NBA ref was busted for being corrupt, not an NHL ref. It is entirely possible for refs to be corrupt, and I sure as hell don't trust them. However, there is no evidence at all to suggest any Penguin wins are due to corrupt refs or any collusion with the league to ensure a Game 7 or Penguins victory. Notably, Wings fans surely won't be complaining about corrupt refs or the league regarding Game 5. Also notably, the Penguins did not lose their composure like that in any other game to where it could affect the outcome.

Here's what I'm wondering. While you're suggesting the Penguins have got away with a lot (and I won't argue that), have you at all ever sighed a bit of relief when a Wing player should have been called and wasn't? I sure hope you have. They've got away with quite a bit too, and NO Wings loss can even remotely be attributed to the referees. In all three losses, the Wings just did not show up. In games 2 and 3 they were tired and not even close to on the same step as the Penguins. In game 6 the offense was barely existent until the 3rd, and the defense still collapsed and made crucial errors. To blame any of this on the league or refs you have to suggest the Wings are in on it too, just like that too many men on the ice call. And the probability of that? Not impossible, but EXTREMELY improbable.

Edited June 11, 2009 by Shoreline

[esteef 2,679]

An NBA ref was busted for being corrupt, not an NHL ref. It is entirely possible for refs to be corrupt, and I sure as hell don't trust them. However, there is no evidence at all to suggest any Penguin wins are due to corrupt refs or any collusion with the league to ensure a Game 7 or Penguins victory. Notably, Wings fans surely won't be complaining about corrupt refs or the league regarding Game 5. Also notably, the Penguins did not lose their composure like that in any other game to where it could affect the outcome.

Here's what I'm wondering. While you're suggesting the Penguins have got away with a lot (and I won't argue that), have you at all ever sighed a bit of relief when a Wing player should have been called and wasn't? I sure hope you have. They've got away with quite a bit too, and NO Wings loss can even remotely be attributed to the referees. In all three losses, the Wings just did not show up. In games 2 and 3 they were tired and not even close to on the same step as the Penguins. In game 6 the offense was barely existent until the 3rd, and the defense still collapsed and made crucial errors. To blame any of this on the league or refs you have to suggest the Wings are in on it too, just like that too many men on the ice call. And the probability of that? Not impossible, but EXTREMELY improbable.

C'mon dude, I know not all things will be caught by the refs. I know all teams get away with s*** at some point or another. The timeliness of the calls for the Pens in conjunction with the obvious stuff like the Malkin non-suspension are the things that really chap my hide! Again, not an elaborate scheme involving hundreds of people, just a consistent amount of timely calls to keep their heads above water. I don't think that's too ridiculous to imagine.

esteef

edit: spelling again dammit!

Edited June 11, 2009 by esteef

[Guest Shoreline]

C'mon dude, I know not all things will be caught by the refs. I know all teams get away with s*** at some point or another. The timeliness of the calls for the Pens in conjunction with the obvious stuff like the Malkin non-suspension are the things that really chap my hide! Again, not an elaborate scheme involving hundreds of people, just a consistent amount of timely calls to keep their heads above water. I don't think that's too ridiculous to imagine.

esteef

edit: spelling again dammit!

I could imagine it, and perhaps in my lifetime we'll see an NHL ref scandal. Who knows. If there were one, however, they are hiding it very well. One thing for sure is that the league needs to ******* do something about the way they officiate, as the lack of calling blatant things brings me back to pre-lockout obstruction era where interference, holding, hooking, etc., was technically a penalty but constantly overlooked. I sometimes cringe when I see the Wings do it and shout out "hands off!", or something similar. Indeed this sort of swirling ambiguity in the sole hands of officials is a breeding ground for corruption, but again my concerns for what could/can/will happen and focusing on what's actually occurred are two different matters really. There's just really nothing empirical to back up the notion that the refs or league are in collusion with one another to help the Penguins when it's so obvious it's the Wings that's shot themselves in the foot and would need to be involved.

[Habsology 0]

An NBA ref was busted for being corrupt, not an NHL ref. It is entirely possible for refs to be corrupt, and I sure as hell don't trust them. However, there is no evidence at all to suggest any Penguin wins are due to corrupt refs or any collusion with the league to ensure a Game 7 or Penguins victory. Notably, Wings fans surely won't be complaining about corrupt refs or the league regarding Game 5. Also notably, the Penguins did not lose their composure like that in any other game to where it could affect the outcome.

Here's what I'm wondering. While you're suggesting the Penguins have got away with a lot (and I won't argue that), have you at all ever sighed a bit of relief when a Wing player should have been called and wasn't? I sure hope you have. They've got away with quite a bit too, and NO Wings loss can even remotely be attributed to the referees. In all three losses, the Wings just did not show up. In games 2 and 3 they were tired and not even close to on the same step as the Penguins. In game 6 the offense was barely existent until the 3rd, and the defense still collapsed and made crucial errors. To blame any of this on the league or refs you have to suggest the Wings are in on it too, just like that too many men on the ice call. And the probability of that? Not impossible, but EXTREMELY improbable.

Do you think that maybe, just maybe, even with the remotest possibility, that the refs were given a mandate to "help" extend the series in order for the NHL to gain more viewership (or whatever money-related motive you want to insert here)? Forget that its about crosby being the golden goose for a second. Just look at the penalties in the last game. Det was not awarded a penalty, despite many infractions by the Pens, until it looked like the Pens had the game well in hand. Then did you see the whistles come out for Det by the refs. As I watched the game, I was like "why are the refs not calling anything against what Pitts is doing?", then as the game was drawing closer to an end did I see 2 penalties called against Pitts. It just looked too "convenient" that the calls were halfway through the 3rd period. I disagree with you that Det's offense wasn't there. True, they didn't have a lot of shots on net, but they had a lot of sustained pressure.

I don't think it is a conspiracy to make the Pens win, but I do think that there are some shenanigans going on to extend the series, and in doing so it tends to make Det the victims....Just my 2 cents.

Edited June 11, 2009 by Habsology

[reggiedunlop 0]

Do you think that maybe, just maybe, even with the remotest possibility, that the refs were given a mandate to "help" extend the series in order for the NHL to gain more viewership (or whatever money-related motive you want to insert here)? Forget that its about crosby being the golden goose for a second. Just look at the penalties in the last game. Det was not awarded a penalty, despite many infractions by the Pens, until it looked like the Pens had the game well in hand. Then did you see the whistles come out for Det by the refs. As I watched the game, I was like "why are the refs not calling anything against what Pitts is doing?", then as the game was drawing closer to an end did I see 2 penalties called against Pitts. It just looked too "convenient" that the calls were halfway through the 3rd period. I disagree with you that Det's offense wasn't there. True, they didn't have a lot of shots on net, but they had a lot of sustained pressure.

I don't think it is a conspiracy to make the Pens win, but I do think that there are some shenanigans going on to extend the series, and in doing so it tends to make Det the victims....Just my 2 cents.

interesting

Edited June 11, 2009 by reggiedunlop

[Guest Shoreline]

Do you think that maybe, just maybe, even with the remotest possibility, that the refs were given a mandate to "help" extend the series in order for the NHL to gain more viewership (or whatever money-related motive you want to insert here)? Forget that its about crosby being the golden goose for second. Just look at the penalties in the last game. Det was not awarded a penalty, despite many infractions by the Pens, until it looked like the Pens had the game well in hand. Then did you see the whistles come out for Det by the refs. As I watched the game, I was like "why are the refs not calling anything against what Pitts is doing?", then as the game was drawing closer to an end did I see 2 penalties called against Pitts. It just looked too "convenient" that the calls were halfway through the 3rd period. I disagree with you that Det's offense wasn't there. True, they didn't have a lot of shots on net, but they had a lot of sustained pressure.

I don't think it is a conspiracy to make the Pens win, but I do think that there are some shenanigans going on to extend the series, and in doing so it tends to make Det the victims....Just my 2 cents.

Let's be honest. "Shenanigans" is another way of saying there's some fixing of the games going on. I don't care for subtlety, as you can tell.

If you followed the GDTs I posted in (when I had internet that is, since two or so games I missed because of not having it) I was very well vocal and aware of the refs missing calls, and I gladly point them out. At the same time I conveniently rarely post about Wings getting away with stuff, not because the Wings are saints, but because I am biased toward the Red Wings because they are my team.

When Flip committed that interference penalty at center ice I was like one of like two people to call out Flip for it, while everyone else bitched at the refs. This instance is just similar where people are just being fans of the Wings but being highly illogical and continuing to pepper the forums with suggestions of corruptions ONLY noting circumstances where the Wings got shafted on the calls and were not beneficiaries. This is why the ref/league collusion to help the Penguins win or extend the series cannot achieve validity, because not only is there absent any evidence for it, but because it's well established there's bias in the suggestion right off the bat.

[esteef 2,679]

This is why the ref/league collusion to help the Penguins win or extend the series cannot achieve validity, because not only is there absent any evidence for it, but because it's well established there's bias in the suggestion right off the bat.

That's the thing, any "evidence" outside of a handwritten note from Bettman to an official to help the Pens (which will never exist) will simply be scoffed at as sour grapes by the team that lost. That's why this never REALLY gets looked at. Who would be the ones to look at it anyway, Bettman and the league? Yeah, they're really gonna bust themselves. Why do you think the "discretionary" bs is part of the suspension rule? So the league can swoop in and manipulate it should they so choose of course.

esteef

[Guest Shoreline]

That's the thing, any "evidence" outside of a handwritten note from Bettman to an official to help the Pens (which will never exist) will simply be scoffed at as sour grapes by the team that lost. That's why this never REALLY gets looked at. Who would be the ones to look at it anyway, Bettman and the league? Yeah, they're really gonna bust themselves. Why do you think the "discretionary" bs is part of the suspension rule? So the league can swoop in and manipulate it should they so choose of course.

esteef

I don't trust the league would police itself. However, this is one scandal hockey outlets would be all over. Given the days off between games and all this time dedicated to hockey coverage every little minuscule bit of evidence that would actually point accurately to said conspiracy being true would undoubtedly be reported. These people aren't exactly terribly nice to Bettman as it is.

[Electrophile 3,554]

Dear God, not another conspiracy thread.

Just cover your head in tin foil to keep the FBI from reading your brainwaves and get it over with. You know that sound you hear when you're on the phone? CIA.

[pockets 9]

i think the refs might be trying to extend the series look at the no call last year in game 6 extending this series is beneficial to the league more games= more money

[Vladifan 680]

actually, what i cant believe is that it took you guys this long to figure it out.

bettman got the officials union bosses together and the decision was made..

"The pens shall get ALL calls" he pontificated, "now gather your minions."

so all the referees, linesmen, goal judges, replay officials and toronto replay officials gathered in a secret chamber beneath the vatican.

"The pens shall get ALL calls" he repeated in a thunderous godly voice

............but dont tell anyone

I believe you. I believe you.

I only wish you were tied up on the roof when the smoke came out the chimney, declaring the edict.

[Vladifan 680]

Im not talking about Game 4 that was almost a week ago and Maltby didnt even get a penalty for that and neither did Crosby. Im talking about last night. Let's talk about how Franzen acted like he got shot as well in Game 5 when Malkin elbowed him.

Which reminds me. Just once (maybe it's happened but I've never seen it), I'd like to see ONE call made on the player who dives and not on the other one who happened to be in the vicinity. Why the other guy gets called has been forever beyond my understanding.

If it has happened, I sure as hell missed it.

OK, back to your regularly-scheduled topic.

[Habsology 0]

I don't trust the league would police itself. However, this is one scandal hockey outlets would be all over. Given the days off between games and all this time dedicated to hockey coverage every little minuscule bit of evidence that would actually point accurately to said conspiracy being true would undoubtedly be reported. These people aren't exactly terribly nice to Bettman as it is.

How do you report a "nudge, nudge, wink, wink"? When there's no real paper trail? How often do you really see the refs being interviewed after the game by reporters? Never! That's why we'll never know with a certainty if my claim is right or yours. Until we are actually privy to certain information you can't really rule out the possibility either....And it is this gray area that makes these boards fun places for debate

[Nev 1,085]

Anyone who doesn't think the NHL influences the referees in one way or another is living in cloud cuckoo land. Remember the first few months of the season when any team trailing in the 3rd was miraculously given a 5 on 3 to tie it up? Then Babcock and other coaches started bitching about it, and as if by magic it suddenly disappeared?

Don't get me wrong the officiating in this series has been truly, awfully inconsistent. But by the same token, there is no question whatsoever that the Pittsburgh Penguins are the golden child of Gary Bettman and the NHL - a belief proffessed by fans (and journalists) of every other team in the league.

And if you don't believe that refs can be influence to decide a championship, maybe you should learn about the 2006 Italian Serie A match fixing scandal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Serie_A_...-fixing_scandal

This is in the 21st Century, in one of the biggest sporting leagues in the world. Influential figures at some of the biggest teams in the league making sure they got certain referees, and that those referees gave them the decisions they needed to win tight games.

I just hope that win or lose, there isn't a game-breaking Reffing controversy tonight a la Hossa no-goal or 6-men-on-the-ice.

[Guest Shoreline]

How do you report a "nudge, nudge, wink, wink"? When there's no real paper trail? How often do you really see the refs being interviewed after the game by reporters? Never! That's why we'll never know with a certainty if my claim is right or yours. Until we are actually privy to certain information you can't really rule out the possibility either....And it is this gray area that makes these boards fun places for debate

No ref in any sport is interviewed that I've ever seen. Not hockey, football, basketball, soccer.. none. And if you note I never "ruled out the possibility". As mentioned it isn't impossible but EXTREMELY improbable regarding the assertions in this topic.

Again, if we want to address actual logical conclusions based on this series' events, the Red Wings would have to be in on this conspiracy. The too many men on the ice thing wasn't even noticed by the team until too late. People who have made the suggestion that the refs are biased for the Penguins completely blow off Game 5 as if it doesn't exist. Games 2, 4, and 5 saw the Penguins have more penalties called on them. Game 6 was even. That leaves games 1 and 3 that the Wings had more penalties called against them, and the first of those they won.

While people love to assert that it's possible, which is common sense, they sure as hell aren't showing HOW something occurred. And just because something is possible doesn't mean it happened. IF someone wants to make the assertion that the refs or league are throwing the game, they need to provide evidence without overlooking evidence to the contrary, like said games where the Penguins had more penalties, or not overlooking that the Red Wings along with the Penguins get away with penalties constantly.

I am highly critical of the refereeing but the suggestion of this ref/league conspiracy to help the Penguins needs to have some sort of substantial evidence that isn't full of highly flawed logic like the bigfoot/aliens-have-visited-us arguments made.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Shoreline

[Mister Puck 0]

You guys realize that the players aren't even real right? They are robots that are remotely controlled from the office in Toronto. They are even programmed to give generic hockey responses for post-game interviews, like "We just need to play our game." or "We just need to get the puck on net.".