How can anyone blame the Refs for any of the Wings' losses?

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I just want to say before this is all said and done, before we know the outcome of this series- that whoever wins this earned it.

Missed calls happened on both sides. Lidstrom got the old can-opener from Fedortanko (spelling?) last night. Fine- that was a blatant interference penalty that directly led to the goal. Pens fans will argue that Hudler held someone's stick on the Wings goal- it's more subtle and definitely arguable (which the interference on Lids was not), but it's still something that could have been called, minor or not. So what? Zetterberg hit a post, Datsyuk handed Zetterberg an empty net on a glorious pass only to have the puck skip a bit, which gave Fleury the chance to set up and deny Z, Cleary had a great break away chance but Fleury stoned him. At the end of the game Franzen could've tied it up when Fleury was down but wasn't able to get the puck off the ice and into the wide open net. The number of failed executions greatly outnumbers the number of missed or bad calls.

The fact remains that the Wings s*** the bed in the first and second periods- defensively they were great, and Osgood was easily the best player on the ice for either team last night, but offensively the Wings were terrible. The Penguins collapsed low and instead of firing the pucks from the point with authority the Wings tried to carry the puck through 5 black sweaters. The Wings simply were not better than the Pens last night- Ozzy deserved the win simply for his amazing play, but the rest of the team really didn't earn it.

So now we have to stress over the next two days and pray the Wings play on Friday like we know they can and win the cup we know they deserve.

But if the Wings don't show up on Friday and we're forced to watch the Pens skate with the cup (as sickening as that is to imagine), I really don't want to read thread after thread about how the league gave the Pens the cup. The Penguins were the better team 3 times so far and the Wings were the better team 3 times. That's a fact. Whoever is the better team on Friday wins the cup- it has nothing to do with reffing or Gary Bettman.

Ok, so kind of a lame thread, but I wanted to get this off my chest.

I'm positive Detroit will be celebrating their 12 Stanley Cup on Friday night, and it will be because the Wings are the better team, no more, no less.

GO WINGS!

Edit: (Torry) Spelling

Edited June 10, 2009 by Drake_Marcus

[Guest Shoreline]

I agree with you, but I don't get why this deserves it's own topic when there's others just like it right at the top here..

http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/index.ph...=59107&st=0

[CrimsonFlame 424]

I just want to say before this is all said and done, before we know the outcome of this series- that whoever wins this earned it.

Missed calls happened on both sides. Lidstrom got the old can-opener from Fedortanko (spelling?) last night. Fine- that was a blatant interference penalty that directly led to the goal. Pens fans will argue that Hudler held someone's stick on the Wings goal- it's more subtle and definitely arguable (which the interference on Lids was not), but it's still something that could have been called, minor or not. So what? Zetterberg hit a post, Datsyuk handed Zetterberg an empty net on a glorious pass only to have the puck skip a bit, which gave Fleury the chance to set up and deny Z, Cleary had a great break away chance but Fleury stoned him. At the end of the game Franzen could've tied it up when Fleury was down but wasn't able to get the puck off the ice and into the wide open net. The number of failed executions greatly outnumbers the number of missed or bad calls.

The fact remains that the Wings s*** the bed in the first and second periods- defensively they were great, and Osgood was easily the best player on the ice for either team last night, but offensively the Wings were terrible. The Penguins collapsed low and instead of firing the pucks from the point with authority the Wings tried to carry the puck through 5 black sweaters. The Wings simply were not better than the Pens last night- Ozzy deserved the win simply for his amazing play, but the rest of the team really didn't earn it.

So now we have to stress over the next two days and pray the Wings play on Friday like we know they can and win the cup we know they deserve.

But if the Wings don't show up on Friday and we're forced to watch the Pens skate with the cup (as sickening as that is to imagine), I really don't want to read thread after thread about how the league gave the Pens the cup. The Penguins were the better team 3 times so far and the Wings were the better team 3 times. That's a fact. Whoever is the better team on Friday wins the cup- it has nothing to do with reffing or Gary Bettman.

Ok, so kind of a lame thread, but I wanted to get this off my chest.

I'm positive Detroit will be celebrating their 12 Stanley Cup on Friday night, and it will be because the Wings are the better team, no more, no less.

GO WINGS!

Edit: (Torry) Spelling

Because the Pens seem to get away with almost anything. Slashes, cross checks, even 6 men on the ice. It would be nice to have the rules enforced once in a while.

I'm not saying the ref's are completely biased. They make terrible calls on all sides and then let the legit ones go. The ref's are just terrible. And ok maybe a little biased.

[mjlegend 155]

I'm generally with Arms-Crossed Guy on this, but the standard of officiating has changed from this round to the regular season, all in the name of "letting them play."

If the Ducks were allowed to get away with the kinds of things both teams have gotten away with all series, they'd have won over either team in five.

[10 Minute Misconduct 104]

Because the Pens seem to get away with almost anything. Slashes, cross checks, even 6 men on the ice. It would be nice to have the rules enforced once in a while.

I'm not saying the ref's are completely biased. They make terrible calls on all sides and then let the legit ones go. The ref's are just terrible. And ok maybe a little biased.

Slashes, cross checks - welcome to playoff hockey.

[danijel 0]

game 3 ericsson gets an interference call that was garbage (great timing too 2-2 game 10mins to go in 3rd), meanwhile gil and orpik get away with much worse every single shift.

game 6 we get no calls our way until about 7 mins left to go in 3rd, and both of those were so obvious that they had no choice but to call them. the second goal should never have happened because lidstrom was clearly obstructed with and it allowed the pens to keep the play in our zone and eventually score. why was it let go? because it's only 1-0 at that point. that's why.

and what about the garbage call on zetterberg in the 1st?

[talex 1]

Anyone who denies the officiating is not affecting these games is blind and the outcome does have alot to do with officiating. I am not going to go as far as to say they are trying to slant to one team or another, but I will go as far as to say they are tilting the playing field in favor of maximum drama, many fans of both teams in this series are complaining, if you have watched enough of the playoff games you can predict when whistles will be swallowed and when a penalty will be called this is B.S. and hurts the game no matter what team you root for.

In the end will the better team win? Because of the officiating it is unfortunate, but that answer will depend on what team you were rooting for.

[e_prime 1,936]

I just want to say before this is all said and done, before we know the outcome of this series- that whoever wins this earned it.

Missed calls happened on both sides. Lidstrom got the old can-opener from Fedortanko (spelling?) last night. Fine- that was a blatant interference penalty that directly led to the goal. Pens fans will argue that Hudler held someone's stick on the Wings goal- it's more subtle and definitely arguable (which the interference on Lids was not), but it's still something that could have been called, minor or not. So what? Zetterberg hit a post, Datsyuk handed Zetterberg an empty net on a glorious pass only to have the puck skip a bit, which gave Fleury the chance to set up and deny Z, Cleary had a great break away chance but Fleury stoned him. At the end of the game Franzen could've tied it up when Fleury was down but wasn't able to get the puck off the ice and into the wide open net. The number of failed executions greatly outnumbers the number of missed or bad calls.

The fact remains that the Wings s*** the bed in the first and second periods- defensively they were great, and Osgood was easily the best player on the ice for either team last night, but offensively the Wings were terrible. The Penguins collapsed low and instead of firing the pucks from the point with authority the Wings tried to carry the puck through 5 black sweaters. The Wings simply were not better than the Pens last night- Ozzy deserved the win simply for his amazing play, but the rest of the team really didn't earn it.

So now we have to stress over the next two days and pray the Wings play on Friday like we know they can and win the cup we know they deserve.

But if the Wings don't show up on Friday and we're forced to watch the Pens skate with the cup (as sickening as that is to imagine), I really don't want to read thread after thread about how the league gave the Pens the cup. The Penguins were the better team 3 times so far and the Wings were the better team 3 times. That's a fact. Whoever is the better team on Friday wins the cup- it has nothing to do with reffing or Gary Bettman.

Ok, so kind of a lame thread, but I wanted to get this off my chest.

I'm positive Detroit will be celebrating their 12 Stanley Cup on Friday night, and it will be because the Wings are the better team, no more, no less.

GO WINGS!

Edit: (Torry) Spelling

Quoted for truth.

While yet another officiating thread is complete unnecessary... this OP rings true. Despite any officiating gaffs in any of these previous six games, the winner was determined by excellent play and sheer determination. Either side can cry about how this penalty cost momentum or how that penalty was missed and this one was called... but I think we're pretty much evened up at this point.

It's a winner take all situation. Done. Finished.

Fret all you like about the officiating and Crosby/Malkin, etc.

It won't matter after Friday night.

[danijel 0]

Anyone who denies the officiating is not affecting these games is blind and the outcome does have alot to do with officiating. I am not going to go as far as to say they are trying to slant to one team or another, but I will go as far as to say they are tilting the playing field in favor of maximum drama, many fans of both teams in this series are complaining, if you have watched enough of the playoff games you can predict when whistles will be swallowed and when a penalty will be called this is B.S. and hurts the game no matter what team you root for.

In the end will the better team win? Because of the officiating it is unfortunate, but that answer will depend on what team you were rooting for.

agreed. unfortunately for us this means getting screwed. how the hell else can you explain gill, orpik, scuderi, and gonchar being in the same league as zetterberg, datsyuk, hossa, and franzen? what happened, they all suddenly turned into lidstroms out there? or did our guys turn into kunitz and guerin? ... magically this series is tied at 3

[greenrebellion 415]

I approve of the OP's message.

[Lovin Jiri Fischer 147]

Last time I checked 99% of us are not blaming the refs, even though many of us agree that they are inconsistent and do suck. But those are two different things.

[dobbles 252]

i agree that reffing gets blamed way too much.

the main reason i think its funny about the reaction of this board about how the nhl wants the wings to win is because most non wings fans think that the nhl favors the wings. so i find it hard to believe that either group knows what they are talking about.

i myself am of the opinion that officiating is random. all teams get screwed at times and get lucky at times.

with that all said, i think its a shame that the refs have taken a 'let them play' attitude. if the nhl wants its officiating to not look bush league, it has to once and for all decide that a penalty in early october is the same thing as a penalty in june. until that happens, officiating will continue to be a joke.

[Red4wings4life 0]

I will not say the Refs made the Wings lose, What I am saying is that the Refs are not calling the games fair.

How many missed calls last night would have changed the game? I have no idea and nobody else does but those calls should have been made. Period.

Either call the games the same from game 1 to the SCFs or explain each night what is going to be called and what is not going to be called.

I mean come on guys, its stupid how the games are being called. In football a penalty is a a penalty no matter how much time is on the clock. That is how the NHL should be. Call the games the same no matter how much time or what game it is. That is all I am asking.

That is all a true hockey fan wants. They want a penalty to be a penalty. PERIOD.

The Wings lost last night due to lack of effort not because of the Refs but the Refs were horrible and it is embarrassing to true hockey fans.

The NHL is a joke because of the Refs. The NHL is a joke to everyone including true hockey fans because of the way the league is calling games.

A penalty in one game is not a penalty in another, that is just plain stupid no matter how you spin it.

AGAIN - A penalty is a penalty. PERIOD. I do not care if it is Game 1 of the preseason or Game 7 of the SCF.

[The Winged Wheel 0]

well last night was all about McCreary, that son of a ***** has had something against us since forever. Looking on the positive side, I'd rather get it over with and have him ref game 6 rather than game 7.

[zaxx 0]

Drake_Marcus - I always enjoy your postings on these forums. You always seem to say exactly what I am thinking or what I should be thinking, although in a more organized and educated manor. Thank-you for again stating what we should be thinking.

It sure is hard to think that positive, and that calm with all the fear of a loss looming.

[10 Minute Misconduct 104]

agreed. unfortunately for us this means getting screwed. how the hell else can you explain gill, orpik, scuderi, and gonchar being in the same league as zetterberg, datsyuk, hossa, and franzen? what happened, they all suddenly turned into lidstroms out there? or did our guys turn into kunitz and guerin? ... magically this series is tied at 3

defense is alot easier to play then offense. the calls have been even through out. that call on ericsson in game 3 was brilliant. it was as blatant as you can get. ericsson took the player out that didnt even dump the puck in.

[pirateasaurus 0]

Everyone has been bitching for the last 3 years about the awful little hooks and phantom calls and now that the refs are not calling much everyone still complains. "oh, but they get away with MURDER OUT THERE!" Well look at last night, they didn't have a penalty until about halfway through the third period. Sounds rediculous, right? Well we didn't have a single one after about halfway through the first.

[pavyaz19 1]

Pens have gotten away with so much... you'd be insane to think the series wouldn't have been any different if either team would have had more power plays. s***, maybe the Wings would have lost the series already if the Pens would have been penalized when they should have been. Maybe they would have killed most of the penalties and destroyed our momentum and we would have lost in four. That's all I'm saying, the refs have changed their habits for these playoffs and it would undoubtedly have affected the outcome of games. Simple as that.

[pavyaz19 1]

Everyone has been bitching for the last 3 years about the awful little hooks and phantom calls and now that the refs are not calling much everyone still complains. "oh, but they get away with MURDER OUT THERE!" Well look at last night, they didn't have a penalty until about halfway through the third period. Sounds rediculous, right? Well we didn't have a single one after about halfway through the first.

When you don't interfere, you don't get called for interference. That's why the Wings didn't have any penalties. However, the same can't be said for the Pens... They interfered, but it didn't matter.

[Frozen-Man 144]

defense is alot easier to play then offense. the calls have been even through out. that call on ericsson in game 3 was brilliant. it was as blatant as you can get. ericsson took the player out that didnt even dump the puck in.

The refs will not be what cost the Wings the series if they lose, it will be lack of effort/energy/whatever you want to call it for long stretches of certain games. I do however have a problems with the Ericsson call, not that it was called but that the dozens on Gill have not been, I don't think you applaud the reffs for getting a call right whenever they decide that the exact same play is not going to be called as a penalty at another time, it is not the call or non-call but the lack of consistancy that irks me.

[Guest Shoreline]

Drake_Marcus - I always enjoy your postings on these forums. You always seem to say exactly what I am thinking or what I should be thinking, although in a more organized and educated manor. Thank-you for again stating what we should be thinking.

It sure is hard to think that positive, and that calm with all the fear of a loss looming.

Not just fear of a loss, but a total bandwagon jailbreak. No doubt we have plenty of spoiled-ass-rotten fans.

[egroen 384]

I ***** about poorly officiated games, it's only natural -- heck, even Mike Ilitch bitched about the call on Datsyuk in the 2007 Western Conference Finals, in an interview THIS YEAR!

I hate those games because it often makes me wonder "what if", especially when the Wings lose.

Game 3 is the one that really bothers me this year:

What if Malkin's suspension was not rescinded?

What if the refs caught the 21 seconds of 6 men on the ice?

What if the refs called interference consistently in that game (ignoring Ericsson's call in the third as well as Orpik's and Gill's numerous infractions - or calling it from the beginning of the game)?

It drives me crazy when the refs appear to be a difference maker throughout the course of a game. Now I do not think they were in games 4 and 6, but Game 3 really bothers me.

That said, I 100% agree with the OP -- it should never be an excuse for not winning, especially in a 7 game series. Sometimes you have to overcome the refs, just as you might have to overcome a soft goal or two.

... but I just think it is fine and natural to "*****"

Edited June 10, 2009 by egroen

[Guest E_S_A_D]

I knew it! Drake Markus is who I suspected all along... it's not that silly guy looking tough in his avatar, it's in deed...

Oh, and.... When Penguins play, did refs put whistles away?

By STEVE SCHRADER • FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER • June 10, 2009

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Buzz up!

Well, it was a week late, but Gary Bettman got just what he wanted for his birthday: The Penguins forced a Game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals.

Now, if you're one of those anti-commish conspiracy theorists, you might suspect the NHL used, say, the officiating to make it so.

Hey, not me. I seldom blame the officials, and Pittsburgh looked like the better team anyway in Tuesday night's 2-1 win.

So it's probably just a coincidence that former Spartan Craig Simpson noted on CBC more than once that seemingly obvious penalties weren't called on the Penguins.

Like when he showed a clip of how the Penguins gained possession of the puck before their second goal -- the winner -- in the third period.

"Look at Ruslan Fedotenko's stick between the legs of Nicklas Lidstrom," Simpson said. "Lidstrom would have that puck 90% of the time ... and that's a penalty 90% of the time."

And the other 10% of the time, it's probably just a coincidence, right?A few outtakes from Game 6:

• Tuned in to "Hockey Night in Canada" at 8 sharp and what's the first image they showed? Sidney Crosby entering the arena. And during Coach's Corner, Don Cherry showed a compelling clip of Sid the Kid taping his stick. For you other kids out there.

• On the bright side, Cherry predicted the Penguins' victory on the grounds they didn't want to be embarrassed with a Wings Cup ceremony two years in a row at home. But he said the Wings would still win the series and Chris Osgood will be the MVP.

And earlier, on Channel 4, Grapes promised he'd wear a red jacket for Friday's game, and it has been a surefire good-luck charm for the Wings.

• NBC's Mike Milbury, on Marian Hossa in the second intermission: "Change his name to Nossa. Because he's not been around. We haven't seen him. This is a guy that came to Detroit to win a Stanley Cup, and he's goalless through this series and really chanceless through this game."

Wanna go -- again?

Some rematch, eh? Michael Farber writes in Sports Illustrated that the Red Wings and Penguins might not be through -- they very well could hook up in the finals again.

(2 of 2)

"While the Red Wings and the Penguins will hardly have an easy time continually reprising their appearances in the finals ... these finalists will not simply wax and wane," Farber writes.

For the record, if you're thinking of next year, the same teams have met in three consecutive finals once: The Wings beat Montreal in 1954 and '55, and the Canadiens returned the favor in '56.

Ken who?

You never know what imposters might be lurking around Internet chat rooms, do you?

Like some joker who called themselves "Ken Holland (Detroit, MI)" and asked ESPN.com's Scott Burnside: "Has the NHL discussed a plan to prevent me from continuing to blatantly cheat the salary cap with these inflated long-term contracts for Zetterberg, Franzen and soon-to-be Hossa? ..."

Answered Burnside: "Ken, as you well know, there is nothing in the CBA to prevent you from signing guys to 32-year deals to keep the cap hit down. Look for that loophole to be closed when the next agreement is being considered. By then, you'll have a whole mantel full of Stanley Cup hardware."

Quick hits

• Chris Zelkovich, Toronto Star, on NBC's ratings on the rise while CBC's are trending down: "Even though hockey still beats out everything on the sports dial here, the fact is twice as many Americans are watching the final than Canadians. It could be a fascination with Darren Pang, or maybe it's the lack of gripping poker tournaments."

• Penguins defenseman Rob Scuderi, quoted by SI: "The Red Wings are the ultimate professionals. ... They don't get too mixed up in some of the crap after the whistle. Even if you try to engage them in that kind of stuff, they usually skate away. They know they're good, and they back it up most nights."

Compiled from staff reports and news services by STEVE SCHRADER, who can be reached at 313-222-6710 or sschrader@freepress.com.

[DRW Dominance 255]

The funniest was the penalty on Zetter in the first for goalie interference. The ref right in front of the play staring right at it did not make the call, but the ref from centre ice did. And everyone noted that was a terrible call. If the ref from centre ice is staring at that play he should easily be able to see the other ref right in front of the play not making a penalty call, therefore not calling one himself.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

game 3 ericsson gets an interference call that was garbage (great timing too 2-2 game 10mins to go in 3rd), meanwhile gil and orpik get away with much worse every single shift.

game 6 we get no calls our way until about 7 mins left to go in 3rd, and both of those were so obvious that they had no choice but to call them. the second goal should never have happened because lidstrom was clearly obstructed with and it allowed the pens to keep the play in our zone and eventually score. why was it let go? because it's only 1-0 at that point. that's why.

and what about the garbage call on zetterberg in the 1st?

But none of that caused the Wings to come out so slow and phone it in for 2 periods- they did that on their own. Nothing the refs did forced Z, Franzen or Cleary not to bury the puck on their best opportunities.

I find Gill's constant interference as annoying as anybody. Same goes for the non-call on that blatant interference on Lids that directly led to a goal. But again, those things don't change the fact that the Wings had plenty of really great opportunities to put the game away last night only to flub them.

If anything I'd say the number one outside factor that hurt the Wings last night was the terrible ice conditions. The bouncing pucks caused by the ice screwed Zetterberg over on not one but two great passes from Dats.