08-09 is done, and here we are, still...

[IceMunkee 15]

You guys are getting it wrong. I agree we need someone who can tough it up sometimes, but we definitly don't need a goon! Chris Neil? Look for a guy who can hit, fight, love the team, and score here and there...

1) Burrows

2) Backes

3) Carcillo

Edited June 15, 2009 by IceMunkee

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

You guys are getting it wrong. I agree we need someone who can tough it up sometimes, but we definitly don't need a goon! Chris Neil? Look for a guy who can hit, fight, love the team, and score here and there...

1) Burrows

2) Backes

3) Carcillo

I like Carcillo, but the other 2 guys are even bigger ******* than Matt Cooke.

I don't want us having guys like that on our team. Visor wearing, spot-picking cowards.

No thanks.

[skacore 2]

You guys are getting it wrong. I agree we need someone who can tough it up sometimes, but we definitly don't need a goon! Chris Neil? Look for a guy who can hit, fight, love the team, and score here and there...

1) Burrows

2) Backes

3) Carcillo

well first of all I want a player who can do it all, not a goon

but...

if we are getting it wrong I guess so did

'09 Pittsburgh - Godard

'08 Detroit - Downey

'07 Ducks - Parros

I know it's just the regular season but why do Stanley Cup champions insist on singing players like that?? It's been like this forever.....

[Doc Holiday 0]

well first of all I want a player who can do it all, not a goon

but...

if we are getting it wrong I guess so did

'09 Pittsburgh - Godard

'08 Detroit - Downey

'07 Ducks - Parros

I know it's just the regular season but why do Stanley Cup champions insist on singing players like that?? It's been like this forever.....

I dunno, because fighting is in the game?

What kind of answer do you expect?

[skacore 2]

I dunno, because fighting is in the game?

What kind of answer do you expect?

I don't know anymore, I know why they do it, it's because tough players rub off on the rest of the team. Having a guy like Godard on your team goes beyond the regular season. I don't know what kind of answer I expect though because a lot of people are still afraid to admit that championship teams welcome these types of players...

[Doc Holiday 0]

I don't know anymore, I know why they do it, it's because tough players rub off on the rest of the team. Having a guy like Godard on your team goes beyond the regular season. I don't know what kind of answer I expect though because a lot of people are still afraid to admit that championship teams welcome these types of players...

Sure they do.

But they do not sign them as the foundation for their post-season runs.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Sure they do.

But they do not sign them as the foundation for their post-season runs.

Because having enforcers in the regular season toughens up soft euros in time for the playoff run. You know, kind of like drill sergeants preparing young people for battle. Or something like that.

[Doc Holiday 0]

Because having enforcers in the regular season toughens up soft euros in time for the playoff run. You know, kind of like drill sergeants preparing young people for battle. Or something like that.

Possibly.

[wingsownnhl43 14]

We dont need anyone that is going to be the heavyweight fighter of the league. That's where alot of people are misunderstanding the point of this thread. I would agree though, that we need someone that is able to send a message. A gritty player or two could help in this regard..

1. Do you think Corey Perry, Niedermayer, Talbot, Malkin, Kunitz would be taking liberties at our players if they knew that they had someone to answer to? I cant say for sure, but i know that they didnt think twice about doing it this year.

2. I guarantee Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Hossa, Franzen would be a littlemore comfortable out there knowing that at least one player has their back if an opposing player steps out of line.

I would also agree that we NEED to inject high energy, gritty guys into our third and fourth lines. Players like Max Talbot, Chris Kunitz, Jordan Staal are the reason Pittsburgh won this series. They completely outplayed our depth guys on the Stanley Cup stage where for the most part, whistles are swallowed.

I also do not understand the grit vs skill debate. Since when do third and fourth liners dictate a teams style of play? Why cant we have both grit and skill? With players like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Hossa, Franzen, Filppula as top six forwards and Lidstrom, Rafalski and Kronwall on D, we would still be a highly skilled team. This is the reason why Hudler, and Samuelsson just arent necessary. Now that Maltby and Holmstrom are as good as pylons out pn the ice, we need to inject some grit into our third and fourth lines. Let our top six play 2/3 of the game and have the third and fourth lines pound you for the other third. That mix would be much better than having Samuelsson and Hudler float around the ice.

-Let some team sign Hudler, let Samuelsson walk, buyout Homers contract (this would save 1.5 million), Waive Maltby. If no one claims him, he can play in GR and not count towards the cap.

- Re-Sign Hossa

- Bring up Leino, Helm, Abdelkader, Ericcson

- Sign Ian Laperriere and Chris Neil

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Cleary

Franzen-Filppula-Hossa

Leino-Helm-Laperriere

Abdelkader-Draper-Neil

Lidstrom-Rafalski

Stuart-Kronwall

Ericcson-Lilja

Lebda

Osgood

Howard

[AtomicPunk 296]

You make my head hurt with this stuff.

Did we not come one goal away from winning the cup in Game 7?

And a Cup the year before?

It's a war of attrition, people get hurt.

And having a "tough guy" on the team doesn't mean Pav's ankle doesn't get slashed, it means we play 4 on 4 for 5 minutes afterward.

I will say this....I think we have a few too many "floaters" on this team, who won't give everything every night, but getting a guy just so we can have a few scraps is not the answer.

And please, if you are a fan of "Lappy", can we please use his full name? "Lappy" just sounds.....wrong.

[skacore 2]

And having a "tough guy" on the team doesn't mean Pav's ankle doesn't get slashed, it means we play 4 on 4 for 5 minutes afterward.

It may matter, it may not. There's a better chance it may.

I will say this....I think we have a few too many "floaters" on this team, who won't give everything every night, but getting a guy just so we can have a few scraps is not the answer.

Who's looking for a guy just to have a few scraps? Re-read previous posts and you'll realize the general consensus is that we could use a tough, gritty, hungry, depth player who can bring another element to our line up BESIDES being able to take a regular shift every night.

[Guest micah]

Because having enforcers in the regular season toughens up soft euros in time for the playoff run. You know, kind of like drill sergeants preparing young people for battle. Or something like that.

This is where I've been since day 1. Playing with tough guys who don't take any s*** and play their ass off every single shift inspires the team just as much as the 90 point/yr superstar's pretty dekes and passes do.

Babcock made it very clear that this team didn't even bother to play hard for the first 3/4 of the season, why should we be surprised that they looked gassed when it mattered most? There is no team in the league with skill or depth comparable to Detroit's. There are plenty of teams with more drive and heart though, and that sucks and needs to be remedied.

The Wings need someone with an attitude. Someone who will be thankful for every single shift. Someone who will happily do whatever it is that will benefit the team at that time, be it sitting in the pressbox, risking a broken face to spark his team or avenge an cheapshot, throwing his body through an opponent or skating hard to the net and planting himself there in the manner that Holmstrom used to be willing and able to do. Any points he puts up are a bonus. He isn't on the roster to score, we have plent of guys who excell at that. We need a guy who will remind those skilled guys just how thankful they should be for what they have, just how special they are, and just how much some players are willing to pour into this game.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

not to mention "tough guy" Maxime Talbot who did whatever he wanted to this series (slash Dat's ankle, spear Osgood, mock entire Red Wings' bench... score Stanley Cup GWG goal...) scores the only 2 goals in the final game... it's funny how these kind of guys shine when they feel like they are the biggest, baddest guy out on the ice? sadly..... he probably was

You know I am a big time proponent of toughness and of fighting. It embarrasses me that we don't fight.

However, I don't feel it was a lack of toughness that we didn't win this cup.

Injuries are going to happen. Look at what happened to Crosby when Franzen squeezed him into the boards. That's not a toughness thing. It's a freak injury thing.

Aside from Kopecky's face, pretty much none of the stuff you mentioned had to do with a lack of toughness. Rafalski was fine after the Perry fight. Helm was fine after the Kunitz thing.

It was simply injury, coupled with age.

You are right about Max Talbot. I think he's a ****** and I want to punch his ******* lights out whenever he speaks, but he's the kind of player I would love to have. Give me Talbot over Maltby any day.

In looking over the roster I saw alot of age showing up.

Not to take away from what they have accomplished during their careers but

Tomas Holmstrom wasn't very good at all, at any point in the season. Injury bugs, age, etcc...Homer was pretty invisible and frankly, I am ready for him to move on.

Kirk Matlby can move on as well. Look at the way Darren Helm skates and hits people. Maltby used to hit people like that but no more. Maltby can go as well.

Draper I don't mind seeing him around because he's a vet, he's still got the wheels and the intangibles are still there. Leadership, face off wins, defensive play. Injuries slowed him down but his numbers look worse than the player he can still be.

Kopecky, i'll be glad when he's gone.

Sammy, probably the player I would least like to see leave. He has alot of tools and can be a great depth weapon.

Hudler, never liked him. Too small, too much of a perimeter player. And frankly, the last thing we need is a small, European. We're ******* chock full of those guys.

Unfortunately we can't get rid of all these guys but i'll take youthful exhuberence and youthful legs at this point.

Oh, and I'll take Marian Hossa as well. And maybe Chris Neil.

[Frozen-Man 144]

...cupless without an enforcer in the line up! OK that was partially a joke but not entirely. In the offseason we added a world class player in Marian Hossa and lost Dallas Drake.

Our biggest hurdle this year in the finals was fatigue and just being beaten up and not having the energy to go 7 games against a young Pittsburgh squad, can we agree on that?

Last year we had guys like Dallas Drake, Darren McCarty, and Andreas Lilja on our squad, physical guys who can take the body and stick up for their teammates. This year we didn't have any of those 3, we had Ericsson who was a nice addition I can admit that much.

Could the fact that our players were beaten up and exhausted have anything to do with the fact that our star players were all literally beaten up? I'd imagine playing every other night for a month+ is hard enough on the body, I don't think another man pounding away at your body would help the cause.

I agree with you on our biggest hurdle being fatigue, beat up, and energy but I don't think comparing it to last year with Drake last year verses Hossa this year really covers it. I think that the main difference is that last year it was

Nashville

Colorado

Dallas

and this year it was

Colombus

Anaheim

Chicago

I really think that while the Ducks didn't win the Cup this year they played a huge part in the Pens winning the Cup. Had we had a second round series like we had last year in the Avs I don't think we would even be having this discussion we would be getting ready for another parade. We beat probably the "toughest" team in the playoffs in Anaheim but there is no way that doesn't take its toll on a team. We had very key guys hurt for extended stretches. Lils was out well before the playoffs. Lids got hurt so bad he couldn't play which is so rare it has never happened in the playoffs before. Our Hart candidate was out the first 3 games of the finals (due to getting hit in the foot with a shot which has nothing to do with getting beaten up it could have happened to anyone). Raffy gets hurt. Drapes gets hurt. Kopy gets hurt in a fight which is the only one that really was the result of enforcer type play. It was just an injury riddled post season, backed up by the fact that we had a hard road through Anaheim (and Chicago was no picnic even though we beat them in 5) and got hosed by not getting the break that a team earns after dispatching their opponent in 5 games. Add to that the fact that the Wings won the Cup last year and the Pens lost which like it or not is going to naturally make the Pens hungrier (and with an easier road to the finals and an extra day of rest) and that is the difference this year.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/20..._downey_co.html

Just seemed relevant..