Holland: Defense is set, waiting for cap figure

[LeftWinger 4,961]

Hossa on this team, makes it better. Injuries did us in in the playoffs. Hossa had more points than Crysby in the finals. So he didn't score. We still came an inch short of reeating. How come nobody is grilling Holmstrom for not scoring? Datsyuk stunk it up on the score sheet as well (pre-injury.) Lets just get on with it. Hossa is very valuable to this team, he is worth the money and will have less pressure on him next season. Cap room is easy, convince Maltby and Draper to retire, convince Rafi to waive his no trade clause and if Lilja cannotplay, that opens up $9.6 million MORE dollars to add to the projected $9.4million we have now. You let Hudler walk and get the draft picks in return. Sammy, Kopecky, Chelios, McCarty all leave.

Unfortunately with Holland saying defense is set, Rafi won't get traded, but if we can still canovince Maltby and Draper to retir and count Lilja out, that'll still be $3.6 million more. If Hossa signes for a cap hit of $5.9million, we'll need roughly $3 million for Howard, Helm,Leino, Abdelkader & Ericsson, if we get those three salaries off the books, we should be fine for the season with the leftover cap and the $3.6 from Draper, Matby & Lilja. Now if they on'r retire, we can still get Hossa and the Griffins here for what we have in the Cap room, but it won't give us much wiggle room throughout the season, much like last season...

[Mike 0]

Hossa on this team, makes it better. Injuries did us in in the playoffs. Hossa had more points than Crysby in the finals. So he didn't score. We still came an inch short of reeating. How come nobody is grilling Holmstrom for not scoring? Datsyuk stunk it up on the score sheet as well (pre-injury.) Lets just get on with it. Hossa is very valuable to this team, he is worth the money and will have less pressure on him next season. Cap room is easy, convince Maltby and Draper to retire, convince Rafi to waive his no trade clause and if Lilja cannotplay, that opens up $9.6 million MORE dollars to add to the projected $9.4million we have now. You let Hudler walk and get the draft picks in return. Sammy, Kopecky, Chelios, McCarty all leave.

Unfortunately with Holland saying defense is set, Rafi won't get traded, but if we can still canovince Maltby and Draper to retir and count Lilja out, that'll still be $3.6 million more. If Hossa signes for a cap hit of $5.9million, we'll need roughly $3 million for Howard, Helm,Leino, Abdelkader & Ericsson, if we get those three salaries off the books, we should be fine for the season with the leftover cap and the $3.6 from Draper, Matby & Lilja. Now if they on'r retire, we can still get Hossa and the Griffins here for what we have in the Cap room, but it won't give us much wiggle room throughout the season, much like last season...

Due to Maltby's and Draper's age, their salaries stay on the books unless they are traded.

[CenterIce 83]

Because reality doesn't matter when you want a player off the team.

They are in Fantasy Hockey World, where all you have to do is select release, and the player is gone.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

I'm in favor of a slight overhaul...

Let Hossa, Kopecky and Sammy go, trade or accept a sheet on Hudler (even though you won't get more than a second rounder for him), trade Meech, retire Holmstrom and than bring up the kids and look for a hungry veteran forward for the third line.

Even if they do all of this it would only leave 4M to sign three forwards if the cap stays the same and 2M if the cap drops to 54M. I see no possible way Hossa can remain on this team for more than 2.5M annually without trading Kronwall or Flip.

Do you even know what you are talking about? As of right now, with Hank and Mule's contract taking effect the Wings have $9.4 million available under the projected cap for next year. That is avcording to our own LGW.com salary chart, just click on it and see.

Also, if Hudler signs an offer from someone we won't get more than a second rounder? You don't think he'll make $2 Million somewhere? $2 Million gets us a first and a third. If he doesn't get qualified for $2 million or more, he may as well re-sign here since he made just over $1 million last year and anything less than $2 million would be a slight raise. I believe he'll get near $3 million from someone.

Sign Hossa for sure, that still leaves you $3.5 million for Leino, Helm, Howard, Ericsson to come up. Let sammy and kopecky go along with Chelios and McCarty.

[TheOwl 77]

Franzen took 4 million, I don't see why Hossa thinks he's worth more. Hossa didn't score that many more goals then the Mule in the regular season, and didn't play as well in any of the series. Front-load it just like they did with Z and Franzen.

Do you even know what you are talking about? As of right now, with Hank and Mule's contract taking effect the Wings have $9.4 million available under the projected cap for next year. That is avcording to our own LGW.com salary chart, just click on it and see.

I don't think that thing is right. Check the other salary cap sites. Or just add it up.

Dats, Z, Mule (16.6)

Flipulla, Cleary, Homer (8.1)

Draper, Maltby (2.5)

Lidstrom, Rafalski, Stuart, Kronwall, Lebda, Lilja (22.1)

Osgood (1.4)

= 50.7. So about 6 million under the cap, with one goalie, 4 forwards needed to be signed. If you replace Lilja with Ericcson you gain 0.4 in salary. A right off. Replacing Conklin with Howard is a right off. The Wings can't sign Hossa for even 4 million without losing salary.

Edited June 15, 2009 by TheOwl

[LeftWinger 4,961]

Franzen took 4 million, I don't see why Hossa thinks he's worth more. Hossa didn't score that many more goals then the Mule in the regular season, and didn't play as well in any of the series. Front-load it just like they did with Z and Franzen.

Exactly! Rumor has it deal is already done for an active cap hit of 5.9 million per. Just waiting to see what the actual cap number will be so if they need to tweak it at all. Hossa is here for the rest of his career, we can mark that down for sure...

...and in the end, he'll have more cups than the Pens.

[Glubki 17]

Hossa on this team, makes it better. Injuries did us in in the playoffs. Hossa had more points than Crysby in the finals. So he didn't score. We still came an inch short of reeating. How come nobody is grilling Holmstrom for not scoring? Datsyuk stunk it up on the score sheet as well (pre-injury.) Lets just get on with it. Hossa is very valuable to this team, he is worth the money and will have less pressure on him next season. Cap room is easy, convince Maltby and Draper to retire, convince Rafi to waive his no trade clause and if Lilja cannotplay, that opens up $9.6 million MORE dollars to add to the projected $9.4million we have now. You let Hudler walk and get the draft picks in return. Sammy, Kopecky, Chelios, McCarty all leave.

Unfortunately with Holland saying defense is set, Rafi won't get traded, but if we can still canovince Maltby and Draper to retir and count Lilja out, that'll still be $3.6 million more. If Hossa signes for a cap hit of $5.9million, we'll need roughly $3 million for Howard, Helm,Leino, Abdelkader & Ericsson, if we get those three salaries off the books, we should be fine for the season with the leftover cap and the $3.6 from Draper, Matby & Lilja. Now if they on'r retire, we can still get Hossa and the Griffins here for what we have in the Cap room, but it won't give us much wiggle room throughout the season, much like last season...

Where are you getting your cap numbers from? The Wings already have 51.255M committed towards the cap next year. Using the 56.7M from 08/09 this leaves 5.445M if the cap remains the same which is doubtful. I ran your projected roster on Cap Geek using 5.9M for Hossa, dropping Meech and Maltby, keeping Draper because of 35+ status, bringing up Abs and Howard and that puts Detroit over the cap by about 2.5M with only 10 forwards on the rosters...

Someone has to offer Hudler more than 2.615M to trigger a first and a third round pick - I just don't see it happening when every other team in the league knows the Wings are up against the cap.

Edited June 15, 2009 by Glubki

[FedorovMan91 1]

Again and again, I know Hossa did not perform as much as many of us expected in the playoff. Let's say he sucked throughout the playoff. This thread is almost becoming 'Hossa sucks thread'. Ok, then, when are we going to see 'Holmstrom Sucks', or 'Kronwall sucks' thread in the forum?

Seriously guys, Hossa might underperform but that is not the reason we lost. Many of the Wings had underperformed in this regular season and the playoff.

Regular season- Kronwall, Stuart, Rafalski, Zetterberg, Filppula, Maltby, Draper, Osgood

Playoff- Kronwall, Rafalski, Kopecky, Ericsson, Hudler, Samuelsson, Holmstrom

Some of you guys look to blame Hossa by the number of points. Well, the point is important but his play was at least decent. If you guys still say he sucks in the playoff, I would not mind to put Datsyuk in the least of this year playoff underperfomer.

[Doc Holiday 0]

Again and again, I know Hossa did not perform as much as many of us expected in the playoff. Let's say he sucked throughout the playoff. This thread is almost becoming 'Hossa sucks thread'. Ok, then, when are we going to see 'Holmstrom Sucks', or 'Kronwall sucks' thread in the forum?

Seriously guys, Hossa might underperform but that is not the reason we lost. Many of the Wings had underperformed in this regular season and the playoff.

Regular season- Kronwall, Stuart, Rafalski, Zetterberg, Filppula, Maltby, Draper, Osgood

Playoff- Kronwall, Rafalski, Kopecky, Ericsson, Hudler, Samuelsson, Holmstrom

Some of you guys look to blame Hossa by the number of points. Well, the point is important but his play was at least decent. If you guys still say he sucks in the playoff, I would not mind to put Datsyuk in the least of this year playoff underperfomer.

Hossa was the one player who was expected to shine. He did not.

That's what makes his play so frustrating.

[FedorovMan91 1]

Hossa was the one player who was expected to shine. He did not.

That's what makes his play so frustrating.

Well, I don't disagree with you. But he was not the ONLY player who had to be shined. Where were Kronwall, Datsyuk, and Holmstrom? Hossa was not the only player who underachieved. I know he played poorly but that does not mean he has to receive all the criticism soley himself.

[mjlegend 155]

Hossa was the one player who was expected to shine. He did not.

That's what makes his play so frustrating.

Out of all the players wearing red and white, he certainly had the most to play for. And despite the obvious motivation, he failed to be a positive difference maker.

If it's a really long contract (eight years/$50 mil) then we may be able to see the real fruits of this when the NHL and world economies aren't in the crapper. There might come a day when this apparent deal looks like the bargain of the century. Right now, it sure doesn't.

[steveyzerman 0]

You do this evey year when someone doesn't play to your expectations.

Remember when everyone wanted to get rid of Pavel?

For f***s sake, let the man be human for a couple months. Sure, bad timing, but it won't happen again.

[DangleyDangley 0]

sorry i havent filtered through these posts to see what others are saying past the fourth one but honest to god people! Hoss is one of the best players today and he didnt loose the cup final, everyone did. Now lets chant his name as well as everyone elses and get a f@cking ralley going for next year!!! Hossa CAN bring it and he WILL bring it...if he signs, just lets stick together and bring this thing back home! PS- lets let sammy, malts, hudler and drapes go, bring up abdelkler, leino and helm plus one scorer with the moneys left over.

[VM1138 1,921]

What else are they going to say? He let us down? Hockey players are classy people, and even though they don't blame Hossa, I bet they all realize he was a no-show.

The only thing going for Hossa is that he hit rock bottom after Game 7, has gotten over the pressure and will perform next play-offs. The Wings need play-off performers, and without Hossa, the Wings still would've won the central, still would of gotten to the finals. He wasn't a difference maker. He has a lot to prove.

You are a fool. There's no way we'd be in the Finals without Hossa. He CARRIED thsi team (along with Datsyuk) in the regular season. I have serious doubts we reach a seed above 7th without Hossa, the way this team played all year. He was the only player not phoning it in.

Give the guy a break. All you negative armchair GM's have been proven wrong over and over and over and yet you still volunteer these crazy theories and ideas. You're the type of people that run the Phoenix Coyotes.

Hossa better be back, we need him next season.

[Glubki 17]

You are a fool. There's no way we'd be in the Finals without Hossa. He CARRIED thsi team (along with Datsyuk) in the regular season. I have serious doubts we reach a seed above 7th without Hossa, the way this team played all year. He was the only player not phoning it in.

Give the guy a break. All you negative armchair GM's have been proven wrong over and over and over and yet you still volunteer these crazy theories and ideas. You're the type of people that run the Phoenix Coyotes.

Hossa better be back, we need him next season.

He is a world class player and every team would love to have him but reality doesn't take a back seat to fantasy and in this case the hard salary cap is the reality. I like Hossa and would jump up and down if they could keep him but not if it means losing 2-3 proven young players and replacing them with unknown players at the league minimum; which is what would have to happen unless he signs for about 2.5M a year or so or takes a low one year deal until Lids salary gets reduced.

[Nero 20]

Then the team must really hate Hudler, Sammy and Homer. There were plenty of guys that were no shows, not just Hossa.

The Wings would have still made the playoffs and won the central, but would they have been the number 2 seed in the West? The biggest problem for this team in the regular season was finding that drive. At times, it seemed Hossa was the only one with that drive and he is a big reason why the Wings were that number 2 seed.

Except that the combined cap hit of Hudler, Samuelsson, and Holmstrom makes up only half of Hossa's cap hit. I'm going to remain neutral on the whole Hossa situation though.

Edited June 15, 2009 by Nero

[VM1138 1,921]

He is a world class player and every team would love to have him but reality doesn't take a back seat to fantasy and in this case the hard salary cap is the reality. I like Hossa and would jump up and down if they could keep him but not if it means losing 2-3 proven young players and replacing them with unknown players at the league minimum; which is what would have to happen unless he signs for about 2.5M a year or so or takes a low one year deal until Lids salary gets reduced.

Some fans have this delusion that there are great players to be had out there. Hossa LOOKs like a bad move, but who else are we going to get? No one (or even no multiple players) of Hossa's caliber. Might as well use the cap for him.

[Xduff83X 0]

im just trying to figure out who "jay" is from a post on the first page???

[Nero 20]

im just trying to figure out who "jay" is from a post on the first page???

Jay Bouwmeester

[Casey 145]

im just trying to figure out who "jay" is from a post on the first page???

Jay Bouwmeester, I believe. Solid 40-point Dman from the Panthers. Makes 4.875M at the moment, UFA this summer. I'd still rather Beauchemin- 1.650M, 20-30 points most years, much better +/-.

[ben_usmc 253]

You're not the only one that sees a good streak of Datsyuk in Flip.

As for Hossa, you're right. If he's going to remain on this team, it has to be with a dedicated setup guy. Neither Z or Dats can fit that bill, unless they are playing together.

I have said for a while Flip will probably be almost on Datsyuks level by the time he is 30 (in the playoffs anyway) . The guy is extremely young, and in regular season he isn't amazing, but when the playoffs come around the guy is a machine.

Edited June 15, 2009 by ben_usmc

[Doc Holiday 0]

Some fans have this delusion that there are great players to be had out there. Hossa LOOKs like a bad move, but who else are we going to get? No one (or even no multiple players) of Hossa's caliber. Might as well use the cap for him.

Who else?

Depth. We have the star power already. Trying to stock up on the best free agents is idiotic when you look at the big picture.

Hossa needs to take a massive paycut or be gone. I'm hoping the latter.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Hossa's teammates seem to disagree with you, everyone from Zetterberg to Lidstrom to Maltby to Osgood to Babcock has said how great he has been to play with and how hard he works out on the ice, Ken Holland even said that he thought the only game Hossa looked really tight in was game 6.

What do the people who have actually been around Hossa for the past 300 days have anything to do with this? Throw his 40 goals to the wayside, he DOES NOT mesh with this team. Those 40 goals were flukes.

Hossa > Sammy + Hudler. Always. Easily. No doubt.

[Z and D for the C 712]

I'm sure he was fine in the locker room. But he only consistently performed with two or three players. Couldn't play with Datsyuk or Zetterberg, and was only able to do very well with Filpulla and perhaps a couple other low tier Wings. He did do well in the goals department, but that isn't how the Wings system works.

Enlighten us, what aspects of the wings' system does Hossa not excel in?

Saying Hossa doesn't "mesh" with the team is just stupid. He looked like he belongs here the first game he played with us. Good defense, hard backchecking, team play and talent.

[kylee 727]

if keeping hossa means losing sammy and hudler, so be it.

he didnt have the best playoffs but hes a superstar that does have big time effectiveness in him.