Holland: Defense is set, waiting for cap figure

[Doc Holiday 0]

Enlighten us, what aspects of the wings' system does Hossa not excel in?

Take a look at the guy in the ******* playoffs.

Saying Hossa doesn't "mesh" with the team is just stupid. He looked like he belongs here the first game he played with us. Good defense, hard backchecking, team play and talent.

Saying Hossa doesn't mesh is not stupid. It is quite obvious when watching him and Datsyuk try to play together, and him and Zetterberg. It just doesn't work.

[skyphoenix 153]

But he DID mesh with Franzen and Filppula. Just because he doesnt mesh with our two top forwards doesnt mean a thing. He does mesh with our second line. Which is funny because he is a top line forward on any team other than the Wings.

[Mike 0]

im just trying to figure out who "jay" is from a post on the first page???

I believe that it is Leino because of the reference to GR. Leino's nickname is Leno as in Jay Leno.

[Doc Holiday 0]

But he DID mesh with Franzen and Filppula. Just because he doesnt mesh with our two top forwards doesnt mean a thing. He does mesh with our second line. Which is funny because he is a top line forward on any team other than the Wings.

So are plenty of Wings.

But when it comes to the system, not every player shines when needed. Hossa in my opinion was one of those guys, even while playing with Franzen and Filpulla.

[Mike 0]

Sign Hossa and if things don't work out, trade him. There are plenty of s*** teams that would pick up his salary just to sell tickets. I know you won't get the same value in return, but when do you ever receive the same value in return for a star player? Never.

Edited June 15, 2009 by Mike

[Theophany 110]

But he DID mesh with Franzen and Filppula. Just because he doesnt mesh with our two top forwards doesnt mean a thing. He does mesh with our second line. Which is funny because he is a top line forward on any team other than the Wings.

It's actually better that he doesn't mesh with our top forwards; it gives our second line that much more scoring potential.

Though you need to remember that we ran Filppula at 3rd line center and Dats at second line center a lot this season; I'm thinking that with changes to the roster, we should see something like this next season:

Dats - Zata - Homer

Franzen - Filppula - Hossa

Abdelkader - Helm - Leino

Maltby - Draper - Kopecky (if we keep him)

I think that's a pretty solid set of 4 lines; I really like the GR line in that third spot. Lots of energy, forechecking, and still lots of puck control potential.

[vOrophin 5]

Pipe dream: sign a 1-2 year deal with Hossa for ~2 mil per year, promise him a longer deal and more money when we get more room to maneuver with the cap (impossible, I know).

Realistically, it all depends on what kind of deal he is willing to take. If it's Franzen-esque, it's impossible to turn down that kind of money for that kind of player. If it's closer to Zetterberg level money, it's a very tough decision.

[Mike 0]

It's actually better that he doesn't mesh with our top forwards; it gives our second line that much more scoring potential.

Though you need to remember that we ran Filppula at 3rd line center and Dats at second line center a lot this season; I'm thinking that with changes to the roster, we should see something like this next season:

Dats - Zata - Homer

Franzen - Filppula - Hossa

Abdelkader - Helm - Leino

Maltby - Draper - Kopecky (if we keep him)

I think that's a pretty solid set of 4 lines; I really like the GR line in that third spot. Lots of energy, forechecking, and still lots of puck control potential.

Where did Cleary go?

[Theophany 110]

Where did Cleary go?

Oops, you're right. I was wondering why I was having to use Kopecky and Abdelkader.

I'd probably put him where Abdelkader is on my 3rd line and let Abdelkader grow some more in the AHL.

Edited June 15, 2009 by Theophany

[vOrophin 5]

Where did Cleary go?

Most likely would be on the 1st line or 3rd line, depending on Homer's success on the former. Either drop Koko and move one of the GR boys down a line or keep one of the GR boys down in the AHL.

One of my concerns is 'Kader playing wing, which Babcock seemed reluctant to do in the playoffs. However, it is the playoffs, so it might become possible when games aren't life and death and he is given time to adjust to it.

[dat's sick 1,002]

Dats - Zata - Cleary

Franzen - Filppula - Hossa

Homer - Helm - Leino

Maltby - Draper - Kopecky (if we keep him)

fixed. but I'm not sure I like our 3rd and 4th lines in that scenario.

we could go with something like this instead:

Franzen-Zetterberg-Cleary

Homer-Datsyuk-Hossa

Helm-Filppula-Leino

Maltby-Draper-Kopecky

That would give us a potentially awesome 3rd line, as well as two really strong top lines.

[Finnish Wing 110]

Filppula is a top 6 forward. Don't put him in the 3rd line center.

[FedorovMan91 1]

fixed. but I'm not sure I like our 3rd and 4th lines in that scenario.

we could go with something like this instead:

Franzen-Zetterberg-Cleary

Homer-Datsyuk-Hossa

Helm-Filppula-Leino

Maltby-Draper-Kopecky

That would give us a potentially awesome 3rd line, as well as two really strong top lines.

This line failed in the whole season. The result of separating Datsyuk and Zetterberg caused that players do not feel comfortable with different line mates. We have seen why Datsyuk and Zetterberg have one of the best chemistry each other. Besides, putting Holmstrom over Filppula in the 2nd line? I don't mind to see Holmstrom gets traded in this off season

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

People, if we have the ability to sign Marian Hossa we would be crazy not to.

If there is one hockey player on the planet that is more upset and likely more determined to come out and finally win a cup, its gotta be Marian Hossa. Seriously.

He's only 30 years old, right?

He's still one of the elite two-way forwards in the game.

He's still a big time goal scorer.

He's still a beast on the puck.

He's still got that powerful stride and the ability to drive past defenders and to the net.

So we lose Jiri Hudler? So ******* what! Or maybe we lose somebody like Samuelsson. Again, so what.

If you're talking about fitting Hossa on your team versus Hudler, how is that even a tough decision?

Yes, Hossa struggled in the playoffs. It's not the first time a Wing has struggled in the playoffs. Datsyuk anyone?

This is still a team that got to game 7 of the final. It's still a team that had a 2 nothing series lead in the final. This is a team that had a 1 goal lead in games 3 and 4 and coughed them both up. Why? It comes down to bounces and health. Babs said it himself, we had too many knicks and scrapes on too many key guys. Sure, everybody is injured in the playoffs, but those are the breaks. Datsyuk going down and never regaining his dominant regular season form didn't help.

Everyone is forgetting how much they loved Hossa when he stood up and fought. Everyone is forgetting how diligent this guy is on the backcheck and how hard he works in all 3 zones. Show me how many 40 goal scorers are out there that work as hard as him defensively. If we can find a cheaper one as good as Hossa then by all means i'll shut up.

We had injuries and some of our top guys just didn't get it done. But you know what, neither did the depth guys.

How many goals did Cleary have in the finals?

What about Sammy?

How about Hudler?

How about Flip?

How about Homer?

There were far more ineffective players night in and night out than Hossa. So I say, shed some of them instead of shedding a 40 goal, responsible two-way guy.

One thing I think we can all see is that injuries and the age factor might be creeping in.

I'll gladly watch Hossa, Abdelkader and Helm play 82 games and if that means no Hudler or no Sammy, I can live with that.

[titanium2 867]

If there is one hockey player on the planet that is more upset and likely more determined to come out and finally win a cup, its gotta be Marian Hossa. Seriously.

What about after last year when he left the Pens? His determination didn't really carry over into the playoffs. I guess my main point is that if you want determination, he's not the guy for it. I think many only misperceive him as determined because of his ridiculous speed when he's on his game and doesn't have other players obstructing his space.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

Filppula is a top 6 forward. Don't put him in the 3rd line center.

I certainly agree. I just hope he can play like he did during the playoffs all season long. He was a man on a mission out there, taking hits, even dishing out hits, all to keep the puck in and keep creating scoring chances.

And it'll be good to have Lilja back, he was quietly having a very solid season before he was injured. Having him back will be like a new addition.

[titanium2 867]

I certainly agree. I just hope he can play like he did during the playoffs all season long. He was a man on a mission out there, taking hits, even dishing out hits, all to keep the puck in and keep creating scoring chances.

And it'll be good to have Lilja back, he was quietly having a very solid season before he was injured. Having him back will be like a new addition.

If we want Fil to be the best player he can be then he needs to have consistent time in the top-6. Either on Pav's wing or as center for his own line. Unlike Hudler, he has the size, speed and defensive aptitude to be a real top-6 player. He's not going to play regular season games like playoff games, but he still needs to get used to the minutes.

And I'd hold off on the Lilja hopes. Last I read they were guessing he won't be back until after right before the all-star break.

[chriskzoo 0]

What about after last year when he left the Pens? His determination didn't really carry over into the playoffs. I guess my main point is that if you want determination, he's not the guy for it. I think many only misperceive him as determined because of his ridiculous speed when he's on his game and doesn't have other players obstructing his space.

I think it's time for Holland to call for some tough love and that means that Homer, and Maltby all need to be gone for the long term betterment of the team. It's pretty clear to me what the lines should be:

Cleary - Zetterberg - Franzen

Hossa - Datsyuk - Hudler

Helm - Filppula - Leino

Abdelkader - Draper - (cheap free agent)

How does the NHL interpret the cap number - that is key for the Hossa signing. If they just average out the deal, I don't see how the Wings can sign him because they only have like $3M under the cap. If they can do it like the NFL where you can specify what gets paid in what year, they can probably do a reverse of the Zetterberg/Franzen contracts and backload it a bit more.

Unless the money is a HUGE issue, I just can't see Hossa going anywhere else and putting even more pressure on himself. The Wings are the perfect organization for him - he doesn't need to be "The Man" every night and appreciates everyone buying into a D oriented gameplan.

[titanium2 867]

The Wings are the perfect organization for him - he doesn't need to be "The Man" every night and appreciates everyone buying into a D oriented gameplan.

Maybe that's Hossa's problem. He pretends as if he doesn't like having to be "the man" but deep down he knows that he should be. How could he possibly push himself to be better that way if he's on a team in which he knows it isn't needed?

[chriskzoo 0]

Maybe that's Hossa's problem. He pretends as if he doesn't like having to be "the man" but deep down he knows that he should be. How could he possibly push himself to be better that way if he's on a team in which he knows it isn't needed?

See, I don't buy that. Yeah, his production wasn't huge in the Finals, but when Datsyuk and Lidtstrom were out, he stepped his game up to push the Wings past the Blackhawks in 5 games (then again, maybe 6 would have been better!)

[LucRobitaille20 0]

Does anyone think that some of the Wings older players like Lids or Rafalski will take a pay cut to help sign players this offseason? The Wings are especially close to the cap and they will need as much space as possible to retain Hossa (and maybe Hudler and/or Sammy). Remember, some of the players did this back before the 01-02 season started so that Holland could sign Hasek, Robitaille and Hull.

Lids is making 7.4 million and he will turn 40 in April.

Rafalski is making 6 million and will turn 36 in September.

I think Lids, as the captain, would be more willing to take a cut. If he does, though, Rafalski should too, because Lids is a superior player. Rafalski has won the cup three times and played in the All-star game twice. Lidstrom has won the cup four times, won the Norris trophy six times, won a conn smythe in 2002, has gone to the All-star game nine times...

Come to think of it, we are getting a bargain in paying him as much as we paid Hossa! Aside from that, is there a possibility here of Wings players taking pay cuts?

[FireCaptain 563]

They CAN'T take "pay cuts" under the current bargaining agreement.

Their cap number is their cap number, no 2 ways about it.

Does anyone think that some of the Wings older players like Lids or Rafalski will take a pay cut to help sign players this offseason? The Wings are especially close to the cap and they will need as much space as possible to retain Hossa (and maybe Hudler and/or Sammy). Remember, some of the players did this back before the 01-02 season started so that Holland could sign Hasek, Robitaille and Hull.

Lids is making 7.4 million and he will turn 40 in April.

Rafalski is making 6 million and will turn 36 in September.

I think Lids, as the captain, would be more willing to take a cut. If he does, though, Rafalski should too, because Lids is a superior player. Rafalski has won the cup three times and played in the All-star game twice. Lidstrom has won the cup four times, won the Norris trophy six times, won a conn smythe in 2002, has gone to the All-star game nine times...

Come to think of it, we are getting a bargain in paying him as much as we paid Hossa! Aside from that, is there a possibility here of Wings players taking pay cuts?

[Johnny Law 15]

I'd like to see

Z - Pavel - Cleary

Franzen - Flip - Hossa

Leino - Helm - Hudler

Maltby - Draper - Homer

But that would mean Hossa is signing for league minimum. I thought from the beginning of the season it would be better to let Hossa walk unless someone major (Lids (please god no) or Rafi was coming off the cap. He's a great player and I generally like him but I don't see how the numbers work out and someone is going to get injured during the year and it would suck to be in a situation in which guys that aren't ready have to play with the big boys.

Therefore I think this is a better option

Z- D- H

Cleary - Flip - Franzen

Leino - Helm - Hudler

Matlby - Draper - Neil

Move Lilja and get a guy like Neil who can play but adds some grit to the roster.

[FireCaptain 563]

Really? Move a guy who is out with concussion symptoms?

2 problems with that little gem of an idea:

1) Red Wings don't show that kind of disloyalty (gee, sorry you're hurt, but we traded you)

2) even if they did, WHO is going to trade for a guy that may never play again???

Move Lilja and get a guy like Neil who can play but adds some grit to the roster.

[LeftWinger 4,949]

in regards to Hossa. Lets compare another superstar from another "elite" team. You don't see san Jose lining up to get rid of Joe Thornton do you? And you won't. Only one team can win the Cup, and rarely is it the same team every year. I say if we exchange Hudler/Sammy/Chelios/McCarty for Hossa/Helm/Ericsson/Leino we're better off for the season. If it were possble to pick up someone like Lappy sure, but we already have Downey that needs a home, so if we were going to go that route he would fill that role just as good as Lappy. Plus he would cost TONS less.

So here are the "trade offs"

Hudler for a 1st and 3rd round pick

Sammy/Chelios/McCarty/Kopecky for Helm/Ericsson/Lenio & Downey

Hossa Long Term

Conklin for Howard

Poissibly Ledba or Meech for a draft pick (all depends on Lilja's status)