Detroit gets tougher in 1997

[wingsownnhl43 14]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW3B7poRzKg...feature=related

I dont know about you guys but i see the correlation between the 1995 and 1996 Red Wings and the 2009 Red Wings. Both teams were filled with smaller not-so gritty players. In addition, now that we have lost to Pittsburgh, a rivalry has been created. Every fan if asked who they would like to see in the finals next year, would undoubtedly say Pittsburgh. Couple that with Crosby snubbing Lidstrom, players and fans alike now have a fire brewing inside them.

We should take note how our 1997 team was created. They needed some attitude. They needed some backbone. This team needs both of those things. We need some high energy, gritty players to create a persona. The days where opposing players take shots at our skill players need to be over. With players like Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Filppula on the top two lines, guys like Samuelsson and Hudler just arent necessary. We need more of a balance. Third liners need to be chekers, not 5'9 forwards that wont touch anybody. Now, I know we were two goals from winning back to back cups, but this team still could be more dominant if they had more of a mix. If they let the skill players be skill players and have the rest of the roster beat you down. This is how I would go about this offseason.

1. Marian Hossa- This is the debate of the offseason. Many Red Wings fans want to see him go. I disagree. Regardless of how he played in the playoffs, he remains one of the top 20 players in the NHL. The Hossa situation is unique. No contending team is going to offer him a fat contract. If he wants big bucks its going to be with a bottom feeder. Will Hossa sign a contract with a bottom feeder? I think not. He needs to win. After signing with the wings to win a cup and falling short to the team he left, he needs to avenge that decision, and he still can... with the Red Wings. He can still make right on the decision to come here. We are graced with the opportunity to sign him at a number that was unfathomable one year ago. We can no pass on the opportunity to get a top 20 NHL Player around 4-5 million. If he agrees to that figure, we have to take him. If not, good riddance.

2. We can not simply re-sign Hossa. Someone needs to be moved. Looking at the players making a significant salary that we can afford to lose, Brian Rafalski, Brad Stuart, and Tomas Holmstrom come to mind. Rafalski makes 6 million, I doubt anyone would take that on. I say convince Stuart to waive his no trade clause and move him, to sign Hossa and let Hudler and Samuelsson walk.

3. Where does the whole attitude, backbone part come in? Right here. Holmstrom needs to go. He has lost a step. Trade him away.

4. Sign Ian Laperriere and Chris Neil.

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Cleary

Franzen-Filppula-Hossa

Laperriere-Helm-Abdelkader

Maltby-Draper-Neil

Lidstrom-Rafalski

Kronwall-Ericcson

Lebda-Lilja

Osgood

Howard

I know we are losing Stuart on defense, but we won with a core of Lidstrom,Rafalski, Kronwall, Stuart. so we can we with Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Ericcson.

I dont know if this link works but it shows this depth chart on a salary chart. http://www.capgeek.com/cap_calculator.php

21 players, 2.1 million in cap space remains.

Hossa at 4 million

Laperriere at 1.2

Neil at 1

Edited June 15, 2009 by wingsownnhl43

[rick zombo 3,739]

They had a 42 year cup-less drought to erase back in 1997.

This Wings team is facing a one year drought. Tough times.

Laperriere-Helm-Abdelkader

Maltby-Draper-Neil

Just curious? How much scoring do you expect out of these lines?

[Hank 0]

I don't think we lacked toughness. Look how we played against Columbus and Anaheim. And even Chicago.

We were just too banged up from those teams to be as physical against the Pens.

However, I'm always looking to get a bit more sandpaper on the Wings. And to me, that starts with jetisoning Filpulla.

I like the kid but too often he could be pushed off the puck with ease. And I think he has too much talent to be wasted on the 3rd line, but not enough (at this point) to be on our 2nd line.

This team would be better off with Dats and Zetts centering their own line and then giving the keys to the checking line to Helm.

Franzen-Zetterberg-Leino

Cleary-Datsyuk-Hossa

Abdelkaeder-Helm-Homer

Kopecky-Draper-Maltby

With that lineup, all 4 lines have grit and hands. Plus, we added 3 youngsters who are full of piss and vinegar.

We could deal Filpulla and get some picks/youngsters. He could probably fetch a good NHLer right now, but we're tight against the Cap if we resign Hossa.

I know that this opinion won't be a popular one, but this would help our Cap situation and possibly give us room to gain more grit or just save that cash for a deadline deal.

[wingsownnhl43 14]

They had a 42 year cup-less drought to erase back in 1997.

This Wings team is facing a one year drought. Tough times.

Laperriere-Helm-Abdelkader

Maltby-Draper-Neil

Just curious? How much scoring do you expect out of these lines?

Abdelkader and Helm proved they can score in the playoffs. Also, with Hossa, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Filppula, Cleary who all are capable of scoring 20 goals, and Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall who are 40 plus point producers, how much scoring do you need on the third and fourth lines?

[uk_redwing 495]

They had a 42 year cup-less drought to erase back in 1997.

This Wings team is facing a one year drought. Tough times.

Laperriere-Helm-Abdelkader

Maltby-Draper-Neil

Just curious? How much scoring do you expect out of these lines?

Well, if we stick with our current 4th line of Maltby-Draper-Kopecky we can gurrentee there will be NO scoring from that line. So adding Neil would only be a plus.

As for the third line, all three of those players can score so theres no worries there.

[wingsownnhl43 14]

Well, if we stick with our current 4th line of Maltby-Draper-Kopecky we can gurrentee there will be NO scoring from that line. So adding Neil would only be a plus.

As for the third line, all three of those players can score so theres no worries there.

great point UK. Kopecky, Draper, Maltby dont score anyways, so why not add a guy that can bring energy and enthusiasm to the lineup.

Also, you could make a case that Helm and Abdelkader could score just as much as Sammy and Hudler on the third line. Couple that with the fact that Lappy would be a huge upgrade over Homer who does nothing now.

Edited June 15, 2009 by wingsownnhl43

[Winged_Wheeler 3]

I don't think we lacked toughness. Look how we played against Columbus and Anaheim. And even Chicago.

We were just too banged up from those teams to be as physical against the Pens.

However, I'm always looking to get a bit more sandpaper on the Wings. And to me, that starts with jetisoning Filpulla.

I like the kid but too often he could be pushed off the puck with ease. And I think he has too much talent to be wasted on the 3rd line, but not enough (at this point) to be on our 2nd line.

This team would be better off with Dats and Zetts centering their own line and then giving the keys to the checking line to Helm.

Franzen-Zetterberg-Leino

Cleary-Datsyuk-Hossa

Abdelkaeder-Helm-Homer

Kopecky-Draper-Maltby

With that lineup, all 4 lines have grit and hands. Plus, we added 3 youngsters who are full of piss and vinegar.

We could deal Filpulla and get some picks/youngsters. He could probably fetch a good NHLer right now, but we're tight against the Cap if we resign Hossa.

I know that this opinion won't be a popular one, but this would help our Cap situation and possibly give us room to gain more grit or just save that cash for a deadline deal.

Are you serious about trading Filppula!?

[wingsownnhl43 14]

Are you serious about trading Filppula!?

Agreed. If you want to clear salary how could you want to trade Flip over Holmstrom who makes. Flip only makes .8 more.

[Guest micah]

Franzen-Zetterberg-Leino

Cleary-Datsyuk-Hossa

Abdelkaeder-Helm-Homer

Kopecky-Draper-Maltby

I like those lines, but I'd like them more if one of Kopy or Maltby was pressboxed in at least 1/2 of the reg season games in favor of Downey.

I also wouldn't be opposed to bringing in a sandpapery 3rd liner like Lappy and parking Homer on the 4th line. Dude is useless when not on the powerplay, and his attitude sucks. If you're a role player (which Homer is, even if he's getting 1st line minutes) and you're offered a chance to take the opposition's best DMamn out for 5 in the playoffs and you chicken out like he did against Pronger two years in a row, I have no use for you. Take one for the team. Cleary wasn't afraid of the big bad non-fighting wolf.

[Theophany 110]

Are you serious about trading Filppula!?

Yeah, I mean other than the fact that he's 24 (and is still growing as a player), I can see a lesser Datsyuk emerging in Filppula. He was great this post season, and at times, he and Helm were really the only two guys fighting for the puck.

If he just gets a shot I can see him being almost as good as Datsyuk by the time he's 30.

[wingsownnhl43 14]

They had a 42 year cup-less drought to erase back in 1997.

This Wings team is facing a one year drought. Tough times.

Laperriere-Helm-Abdelkader

Maltby-Draper-Neil

Just curious? How much scoring do you expect out of these lines?

Additionally, we know the Red Wings can make the playoffs as a 1 or 2 seed, blindfolded. Once we get into the playoffs we will be rolling Z-D-Cleary, and Hossa-Flip,Franzen 2/3 of the game. I think we'd be better off having Lappy, Helm, and Abdelkader hitting everything that moves for the other third of the game rather than having Sammy and Huddles floating around the ice getting exposed by Talbot and Kennedy.

[Doc Holiday 0]

I like those lines, but I'd like them more if one of Kopy or Maltby was pressboxed in at least 1/2 of the reg season games in favor of Downey.

I also wouldn't be opposed to bringing in a sandpapery 3rd liner like Lappy and parking Homer on the 4th line. Dude is useless when not on the powerplay, and his attitude sucks. If you're a role player (which Homer is, even if he's getting 1st line minutes) and you're offered a chance to take the opposition's best DMamn out for 5 in the playoffs and you chicken out like he did against Pronger two years in a row, I have no use for you. Take one for the team. Cleary wasn't afraid of the big bad non-fighting wolf.

This is why you aren't an NHL coach.

[C-TownWing 0]

I dont know about you guys but i see the correlation between the 1995 and 1996 Red Wings and the 2009 Red Wings.

We won the Cup in 1994? Sweet. I'll have to print out a red "1994" and tape it to my SC banner like I did 2008.

First of all, let's face it, if that crossbar shot's a couple inches south (or pick your favorite other close call) and we win in OT, this thread doesn't exist.

There's never just one reason for things, but I'd like to humbly submit that we win the Cup in 2009 and not 2008 if the teams switched playoff schedules. This year, we basically played two seven-games sandwiched around a five-gamer (that was way tougher than it sounds with 3 OT games and lots of physicality) with practically no breaks in between.

Last year, instead of a tough, seasoned Anaheim team in the 2nd round, we had a brutalized Colorado team and got a nice break in the middle of the playoffs. Which helps A LOT more than the break we got after the first round this year. Then we had a Dallas team that was largely spent from beating Anaheim and SJ instead of a Chicago team that sees us as the axis of evil and plays accordingly.

Not to mention the fact that Gonchar (and Crosby in game 7) notwithstanding, the Pens were MUCH luckier (and that's what it is, Chris Neil wouldn't have prevented it) with injuries than we were.

People always want to oversimplify these things and say "we're not playing hard enough" (I HATE that one) or "we don't have enough grit," when a lot more than that comes into play to determine why you win or lose.

I'm not saying I'm unconditionally opposed to adding someone (for the right price), but I am saying that our team isn't fundamentally broken like a lot of you guys seem to think.

[Guest micah]

This is why you aren't an NHL coach.

No it isn't.

There are lots of reasons that I'm not qualified to sniff the panties of an NHL coach, but this isn't one of them. Had Homer taken Pronger off the ice for 5 minutes in that game it would have been the most noteworth thing he did this playoff run. He failed at playing the role he was supposed to play, he could have at least done something - he opted not to.

[Guest micah]

Not to mention the fact that Gonchar (and Crosby in game 7) notwithstanding, the Pens were MUCH luckier (and that's what it is, Chris Neil wouldn't have prevented it) with injuries than we were.

Maybe it was luck. Maybe it was toughness. Maybe a grittier man would have played at a higher level through the pain that Dats, Lids et al suffered. I can't say for certain either way, but niether can you.

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

I think if they were sure they would have been able to get away with a lot of crap out there (interference, hooking, clutching, etc.) like the Pens did then it would have been a lot different game. The regular season was called different than the playoffs and the Wings didn't take advantage.

[TLinsday09 0]

Maybe it was luck. Maybe it was toughness. Maybe a grittier man would have played at a higher level through the pain that Dats, Lids et al suffered. I can't say for certain either way, but niether can you.

I personally don't think our guys would have been as banged up as they were if we had a deterrent factor like Lappy to sort things out. I know I wouldn't spear Lids in the nuts if I knew Laperriere was going to bash my skull in for doing it.

[Doc Holiday 0]

I personally don't think our guys would have been as banged up as they were if we had a deterrent factor like Lappy to sort things out. I know I wouldn't spear Lids in the nuts if I knew Laperriere was going to bash my skull in for doing it.

I don't believe Lidstrom was speared in the nuts.

And Lidstrom was injured in the 07-08 season while Downey was in the lineup. What deterrent was that?

Edited June 15, 2009 by Doc Holiday

[TLinsday09 0]

I don't believe Lidstrom was speared in the nuts.

DETROIT (AP) — The general manager of the Detroit Red Wings says captain Nicklas Lidstrom missed the last two games of the conference finals because of surgery.

Ken Holland told The Associated Press on Sunday the operation was May 24, although he would not say what kind of surgery. Lidstrom told the Detroit Free Press he had testicular surgery after he was speared by Chicago's Patrick Sharp in Game 3 on May 22.

Lidstrom's operation came on the same day the Red Wings beat the Blackhawks 6-1 in Game 4. Detroit won the Western Conference finals in Game 5.

Lidstrom returned to the ice for the Stanley Cup finals, which the Pittsburgh Penguins won in seven games.

I only know what I read.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/articl...q9u1EAD98QITHO2

[TLinsday09 0]

And Lidstrom was injured in the 07-08 season while Downey was in the lineup. What deterrent was that?

He got slammed into the boards by...wait for it, Lappy.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008...ined-wednesday/

Edited June 15, 2009 by TLinsday09

[Hank 0]

Yeah, I mean other than the fact that he's 24 (and is still growing as a player), I can see a lesser Datsyuk emerging in Filppula. He was great this post season, and at times, he and Helm were really the only two guys fighting for the puck.

If he just gets a shot I can see him being almost as good as Datsyuk by the time he's 30.

I didn't think Filpulla played all the well. He lost a number of puck battles and at times it seemed that he could be knocked down with a hard sneeze.

I like the kid, but I wouldn't be disappointed if he were shipped out of town.

He could develop into a better player down the road, but right now he's too weak and doesn't shoot enough.

I think Helm could rack up more points in the same situation as Filpulla and he's a fraction of the price.

[C-TownWing 0]

Maybe it was luck. Maybe it was toughness. Maybe a grittier man would have played at a higher level through the pain that Dats, Lids et al suffered. I can't say for certain either way, but niether can you.

Fair statement I guess, but I really can't picture myself caring that much whether the 3rd/4th line names being thrown around play through it or not, at least not to the extent I do with our stars. I don't think Kopecky getting hurt cost us the Cup.

Besides, we're not talking about replacing Dats and Lids, we're talking about whether their injuries could've been prevented. There's possibly an argument for Lids, since maybe the threat of a beatdown deters the stick to the nuts. Maybe not though. Definitely not Dats though, since that happened in due course.

More than anything, it cracks me up how you can set your watch by the "get Lappy and/or Neil" threads that pop up at every sign of trouble, whether it's losing game 7 of the SCF or losing consecutive games in December.

[Gutierrez 7]

I didn't think Filpulla played all the well. He lost a number of puck battles and at times it seemed that he could be knocked down with a hard sneeze.

I like the kid, but I wouldn't be disappointed if he were shipped out of town.

He could develop into a better player down the road, but right now he's too weak and doesn't shoot enough.

I think Helm could rack up more points in the same situation as Filpulla and he's a fraction of the price.

Filpulla was one of our best players this entire playoff run and especially in the SCF when guys like Hossa, Sammy, Huds, and Franzen didn't show up. I don't know what you were watching. You have to remember Val is more of a set up/assist guy, not a scorer and he did a really nice job of making great passes and setting guys up. Not to mention he scored a couple goals in big games. Filpulla has been clutch the last two seasons in the playoffs, more so than a LOT of our other players.

[WingsFanInPensCountry 0]

If the Wings don't snag some nastier/energizing fellas for the 3rd and 4th lines you'll be watching Talbot,Staal, and Kennedy skate the cup while guys like Zetts, Hossa, and Dats, watch...again.

[Hank 0]

Filpulla was one of our best players this entire playoff run and especially in the SCF when guys like Hossa, Sammy, Huds, and Franzen didn't show up. I don't know what you were watching. You have to remember Val is more of a set up/assist guy, not a scorer and he did a really nice job of making great passes and setting guys up. Not to mention he scored a couple goals in big games. Filpulla has been clutch the last two seasons in the playoffs, more so than a LOT of our other players.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

I thought he played well at times, but at other times he really struggled to win puck battles - especially in the finals (as did a lot of players). There were a lot of moments where he'd be in the corner protecting the puck only to fall over as soon as anyone applied pressure to him.

The thing about Filpulla is that he might be one of the only tradeable commodities.

First, at this point, he's being overpaid.

Second, he's still young so his trade value will be high.

Third, he's not a vet that took a paycut to stay here. If you trade a guy like Homer, for example, what happens is maybe some of the other guys won't take hometown discounts because they're worried their trust will be betrayed and shipped out of town.

That's how Holland's been able to keep this team together through a salary cap world. It's a fine line he's treading and he knows if he signs a guy to a discounted deal and then ships him out, others might not be so willing to take less.

We could be facing a Cap that's $9M less than what it is now in the 2010-2011 season.

If we resign guys like Hossa and still have Lids, Rafalski, Zetts and Dats on the books, we might have to shed $3M somewhere and that would start with Filpulla. And since he's young he'll be able to give us a sweet return.

That's the point I was trying to make.