thedisappearer 291 Report post Posted June 17, 2009 Hank(6.1) - Datsyuk(6.7) - Homer(2.25) Mule(4) - Filppula (3) - Hossa (4) Cleary (2.85) - Helm(.6) - Leino(.5) Draper(1.583) - Maltby(.88) - Minimum Wager(.5) Minimum Wager(.5) Lidstrom (7.5) - Raffi (6) Kronwall(3) - Stuart(3.75) Ericsson (.9) - Lilja(1.2) Lebda(.65) - Meech(.5) Osgood (1.4) Howard(.71) Total: 59.073 I gotta admit, knowing this would be a one year thing, as Lids would take less (though Ihave no idea how much less), I could be sold on this line-up. Howard would bother most likely. But look at that third line. THIRD LINE. I can't say no. Hell, I'm not convinced Homer should be there, but I get he was injured. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casey 145 Report post Posted June 17, 2009 If Hossa was to sign for anything around 4 how could you argue with that? Look at the depth you'd lose. You tell me how that's a good move. To make it work, Samuelsson, Hudler, Holmstrom, Maltby, and Jimmy Howard are gone. This is not even including Chelios and McCarty, who would likely be retiring anyway. Your lines? Z-D-Cleary Franzen-Filppula-Hossa Draper-Helm-Leino Abdelkader-Kopecky-Meech. Defense is unchanged. Conks and Ozzie for goal, since Conks only makes ~50K more than Howard. Your D is decent. Your top 2 lines rock. Your bottom 2 lines are nonexistent, and you're rolling with only 21 players. No depth and no cap space. Take a look and prove me wrong. http://tinyurl.com/m2g5m7 I'm not even giving raises to those who richly deserve it (Conklin). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thedisappearer 291 Report post Posted June 17, 2009 To make it work, Samuelsson, Hudler, Holmstrom, Maltby, and Jimmy Howard are gone. Those players are a $4mil cap hit next year? COMBINED? Really? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casey 145 Report post Posted June 17, 2009 Those players are a $4mil cap hit next year? COMBINED? Really? You're ignoring the cost of Abdelkader, Helm and Leino. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rage 24 Report post Posted June 17, 2009 (edited) Hank(6.1) - Datsyuk(6.7) - Homer(2.25) Mule(4) - Filppula (3) - Hossa (4) Cleary (2.85) - Helm(.6) - Leino(.5) Draper(1.583) - Maltby(.88) - Minimum Wager(.5) Minimum Wager(.5) Lidstrom (7.5) - Raffi (6) Kronwall(3) - Stuart(3.75) Ericsson (.9) - Lilja(1.2) Lebda(.65) - Meech(.5) Osgood (1.4) Howard(.71) Total: 59.073 Never gonna happen, but I'd love a tweak to your lines like this.... Hank(6.1) - Datsyuk(6.7) - Homer(2.25) Mule(4) - Cammalleri(3) - Hossa (4) Cleary (2.85) - Helm(.6) - Leino(.5) Draper(1.583) - Maltby(.88) - Minimum Wager(.5) Minimum Wager(.5) Lidstrom (7.5) - Raffi (6) Kronwall(3) - Stuart(3.75) Ericsson (.9) - Lilja(1.2) Lebda(.65) - Meech(.5) Osgood (1.4) Howard(.71) Trade Flip/Meech/Maltby. Don't sign Kopy or do, just get a big banger for the 4th line. Cammalleri is just one of my favs. Edited June 17, 2009 by rage Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rage 24 Report post Posted June 17, 2009 Take a look and prove me wrong. http://tinyurl.com/m2g5m7 I'm not even giving raises to those who richly deserve it (Conklin). Damn, I forgot about that Cap Calculator! Thanks! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rage 24 Report post Posted June 17, 2009 Well, after using that Cap Calculator I now know there is no way my lines would ever work. At least not until Lids contract is up next season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Turretin 0 Report post Posted June 17, 2009 I'd rather have someone who can play both Forward and Defenseman for 1.9 and keep Hudler and Sammy, than Hossa for 4. *cough*Fedorov*cough* All I'm saying is think about it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,961 Report post Posted June 17, 2009 The one thing about siging Hossa to a contract that would put us over that scares me is, now 29 other teams know we have to get rid of someone (trade or waive) and there will be no fair trade scenario's out there. We'd be getting offers like, a 4th round pick for Stuart or a 5th for Rafi, all knowing we have to get rid of someone... That being said, whatever Hossa signs for, we sill still need nearly $3 million left over to bring up Helm, Howard, Ericsson and re-sign Leino. If we re-sign Hossa for $4, then we would need $7 million in cap space. Plus, we'd lose Hudler, Kopecky, Sammy, Chelios & McCarty and Downey, without even a chance of re-signing any of them. If the Cap goes down, then are we gonna have $7 million left? Someone is going to be traded if Hossa signs, and that brigs me back to my original fear, 29 teams will lowball us knowing we have to getr rid of someone and even the best offer would be the worst offer if ourhands weren't forced... I am all for signing Hossa, since I really won't miss any of the mentioned players above, but I just wish we'd be able to get market value for the someone who will have to be moved. Is there some sort of NHL trade arbitrator out there to prevent this type of thing? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,961 Report post Posted June 17, 2009 I'd rather have someone who can play both Forward and Defenseman for 1.9 and keep Hudler and Sammy, than Hossa for 4. *cough*Fedorov*cough* All I'm saying is think about it. Ya, but Fedorov will make more than $1.9 million. And that is just too much for our wallet. Now, if Fedorov would come here for $1million or less, bring it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Turretin 0 Report post Posted June 17, 2009 Ya, but Fedorov will make more than $1.9 million. And that is just too much for our wallet. Now, if Fedorov would come here for $1million or less, bring it! Fedorov is not going to make much more than 2 mil if that. I don't know all the dynamics, but I think signing him for 1.5 (if possible) and letting him play forward is great. Then, if a D goes down, you shift him back to D and let a GR kid come up. Either way, even WITHOUT thinking about signing Hossa, this team is strapped. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thedisappearer 291 Report post Posted June 17, 2009 We'd be getting offers like, a 4th round pick for Stuart or a 5th for Rafi Players with NTCs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,961 Report post Posted June 17, 2009 Players with NTCs. I know, I only used them as an example of getting low balled for someone who is obviously worth more... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FedorovMan91 1 Report post Posted June 17, 2009 Thats for putting out the fire, Doc. And yes, you have it right. When I said "flying off the handle", I was insinuating that the majority of folks on this board are ready to welcome Hossa back with open arms so quickly, that they haven't stopped to realize that its going to take more than Sammy, Hudler, and Kopecky to keep Hossa at 4M. That says nothing about Kenny Holland, but everything about the folks on here who are acting as if this is merely an exchange of Hudler and Sammy for Hossa. Hank(6.1) - Datsyuk(6.7) - Homer(2.25) Mule(4) - Filppula (3) - Hossa (4) Cleary (2.85) - Helm(.6) - Leino(.5) Draper(1.583) - Maltby(.88) - Minimum Wager(.5) Minimum Wager(.5) Lidstrom (7.5) - Raffi (6) Kronwall(3) - Stuart(3.75) Ericsson (.9) - Lilja(1.2) Lebda(.65) - Meech(.5) Osgood (1.4) Howard(.71) Total: 59.073 1. In this scenario, Leino takes a 375k paycut, which is unlikely to happen, but for the purpose of showing an instance where the Wings could cut corners... 2. At best in terms of salary, Lilja goes on LTIR next year, and Detroit gains 1.2M in cap space. If Lilja is healthy, then again, in terms of salary, Lebda would have to be traded, which I doubt would happen considering he only makes 150k more and is a significant upgrade over Meech. In short, AT BEST, if Lilja goes on LTIR and Leino takes a paycut, with Detroit cutting Sammy, Downey, Mac, Chelios, and Kopecky, and trading Hudler, then you're looking at 57.873 in salary. And thats assuming if Lilja starts the season on LTIR, that he stays on LTIR. And last but not least, this is with Hossa taking 4M, not 5M. I think you got it in a correct way but I don't think Holmstrom is deserved to be the 1st liner. Unless he steps up next season to his own performance, Cleary have to be with Zetterberg and Datsyuk. To add, Hossa's 4 million cap estimation must be wrong. I don't see how he will get a discount of 4 million to stay here. He is an elite offensive player and he can easily get more than 6.5 million offer from other teams. He is not in the case of Mats Sundin who is almost 37 or 38 and never won the cup because he was in an unsucessful team. He is still 30 years old and while we think offensive players' prime is till 35 years old, he can move the team. The thing I like about your idea is removing Hudler. I think he played tremendously in the first half of the season but since the All-Star game, he did not produce that much. Mostly, his size will catch him in one day. During the Jackets series, he performed well but we watched the difference between the Jackets and the Ducks. He almost got knocked off on every ice. He has a good skill but hockey is not just about skill, sometimes toughness is more important. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rage 24 Report post Posted June 17, 2009 The one thing about siging Hossa to a contract that would put us over that scares me is, now 29 other teams know we have to get rid of someone (trade or waive) and there will be no fair trade scenario's out there. We'd be getting offers like, a 4th round pick for Stuart or a 5th for Rafi, all knowing we have to get rid of someone... That being said, whatever Hossa signs for, we sill still need nearly $3 million left over to bring up Helm, Howard, Ericsson and re-sign Leino. If we re-sign Hossa for $4, then we would need $7 million in cap space. Plus, we'd lose Hudler, Kopecky, Sammy, Chelios & McCarty and Downey, without even a chance of re-signing any of them. If the Cap goes down, then are we gonna have $7 million left? Someone is going to be traded if Hossa signs, and that brigs me back to my original fear, 29 teams will lowball us knowing we have to getr rid of someone and even the best offer would be the worst offer if ourhands weren't forced... I am all for signing Hossa, since I really won't miss any of the mentioned players above, but I just wish we'd be able to get market value for the someone who will have to be moved. Is there some sort of NHL trade arbitrator out there to prevent this type of thing? Exactly. Say goodbye to Flip. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grim 5 Report post Posted June 17, 2009 Fedorov is not going to make much more than 2 mil if that. I don't know all the dynamics, but I think signing him for 1.5 (if possible) and letting him play forward is great. KHL has a deal in-place for him at $3.8M (tax-free) per for two years. this nearly scuttled his talks with the Caps if it hasn't already. Kenny can't offer this guy numbers anywhere near that ballpark. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted June 17, 2009 I'd rather have someone who can play both Forward and Defenseman for 1.9 and keep Hudler and Sammy, than Hossa for 4. *cough*Fedorov*cough* All I'm saying is think about it. Hossa is one of the elite two-way players in the game. Fedorov was that over ten years ago and those three combined scored about ten more goals this past season than Hossa himself. If there is any way to sign Hossa for four million, it would be nuts to suggest your alternative makes the Red Wings a better team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casey 145 Report post Posted June 17, 2009 You forget the depth question. Detroit likes 4 lines, without a massive dropoff. You're risking building a line or more of scrubs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted June 17, 2009 (edited) You forget the depth question. Detroit likes 4 lines, without a massive dropoff. You're risking building a line or more of scrubs. Maltby-Draper-Kopecky Mission accomplished. Edited June 17, 2009 by GoWings1905 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyphoenix 153 Report post Posted June 17, 2009 You forget the depth question. Detroit likes 4 lines, without a massive dropoff. You're risking building a line or more of scrubs. I wouldnt call Leino, Helm, Abdelkader or whoever else they have to bring up scrubs necessarily. They would have been full time this season on any other team, probably. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingslionstigers 12 Report post Posted June 17, 2009 Look at the depth you'd lose. You tell me how that's a good move. To make it work, Samuelsson, Hudler, Holmstrom, Maltby, and Jimmy Howard are gone. This is not even including Chelios and McCarty, who would likely be retiring anyway. Your lines? Z-D-Cleary Franzen-Filppula-Hossa Draper-Helm-Leino Abdelkader-Kopecky-Meech. Defense is unchanged. Conks and Ozzie for goal, since Conks only makes ~50K more than Howard. Your D is decent. Your top 2 lines rock. Your bottom 2 lines are nonexistent, and you're rolling with only 21 players. No depth and no cap space. Take a look and prove me wrong. http://tinyurl.com/m2g5m7 I'm not even giving raises to those who richly deserve it (Conklin). You can't sign Samuelsson, Hudler, Holmstrom, Maltby, and Jimmy Howard with 4 mill to begin with. So thats a very bad comparison. Id rather have Hossa than Sammy and Hudler now that would be a fair comparison. Id take depth over Hossa at 6 mill but for 4 mill lets set the pipe down and think about this. If he was willing to sign for that which i really don't see it happening. He would be an absolute steal, you couldn't spend 4 mill any better than that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rage 24 Report post Posted June 17, 2009 You can't sign Samuelsson, Hudler, Holmstrom, Maltby, and Jimmy Howard with 4 mill to begin with. So thats a very bad comparison. Id rather have Hossa than Sammy and Hudler now that would be a fair comparison. Id take depth over Hossa at 6 mill but for 4 mill lets set the pipe down and think about this. If he was willing to sign for that which i really don't see it happening. He would be an absolute steal, you couldn't spend 4 mill any better than that. You still have to trade Flip I believe though, even at $4 mill. Only for next year. After next year, Lidstrom's contract expires and that give you more options there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casey 145 Report post Posted June 17, 2009 You can't sign Samuelsson, Hudler, Holmstrom, Maltby, and Jimmy Howard with 4 mill to begin with. So thats a very bad comparison. Id rather have Hossa than Sammy and Hudler now that would be a fair comparison. Id take depth over Hossa at 6 mill but for 4 mill lets set the pipe down and think about this. If he was willing to sign for that which i really don't see it happening. He would be an absolute steal, you couldn't spend 4 mill any better than that. Never said you could. You want Abs/Helm/Leino/E/Hossa? The list I gave is pretty much the only way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingslionstigers 12 Report post Posted June 17, 2009 Show me what you can do without Hossa on the roster and get back to me. Sammy is garbage and so is Huds come playoff time. Z - Dats - Cleary Hossa - Flip - Franz Abs - Helm - Leino FA - Drapes - FA FA Lids - Rafs Stuart - Kron Lils - Big Rig Lebda Osgood Larsson I'm bout a million over the cap, im sure Holland can find a way to make that work out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nev 1,085 Report post Posted June 17, 2009 Whilst Hossa at $4M sounds fantastic, lets just think about this. In order to achieve this, we are going to have to sign him to a long term deal, a la Zetterberg and Franzen, with a tiny salary the last couple of years to bring the average down. That would mean in 10 years time we're going to have 3 players in their late 30s/early 40s eating up $20M in salary. Players who are all going to be well into the suckage years of their careers. Pre-cap we could afford to carry $4M 39 year olds, but not with the cap. All 3 players are going to be slowed down by age and injuries, and will be hated by 50-75% of LGW for it (cf Maltby, Draper, Holmstrom, Chelios). For that reason alone, they should let him walk and use what little cap space we have to sign some 3rd-4th line players who can help our team come playoff time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
