Detroit to offer Hossa long term deal

[Finnish Wing 110]

Hoss maybe didn't shine on poffs. But Huds were totally invicible too...

[Theophany 110]

Yeah, if you can get Hossa for $4 mil/year, you don't bother waffling, you get out your pen and get that s*** signed.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

If Holland can get Hossa drunk out of his mind and trick him into taking $4million a season we're one lucky group of fans. I don't want Hossa here (and haven't since we signed Franzen), but for a $4million cap hit he's more than welcome aboard. If you get a chance to take a regular 40 goal scorer for $4million you frickin' do it.

[Hockeytown12 0]

I think anything more than a $4 million per cap hit and you have to let Hossa walk.

[Dominator2005 558]

I think anything more than a $4 million per cap hit and you have to let Hossa walk.

[Carman 387]

4-5 million for Hossa? Sign me up. Length scares me, but I'm pretty sure at 4 million he can be decent trade bait to a s***ty team later if doesn't work out.

[Packer487 3]

Even if you hate Hossa for having the audacity to outscore Pavel Datsyuk in the postseason (goals, points, goals per game, points per game), getting a 40-goal scorer for a tick more than we're paying Brad Stuart is a complete a no-brainer.

[Vladifan 680]

http://www.freep.com/article/20090615/COL2...k4AADurxb5T8%3D

I want you to choose between two players.

Player 1 will turn 31 this summer. He has played 98 playoff games.

Player 2 will turn 31 next winter. He has also played 98 playoff games, and let me take a moment to thank him for that, because it makes this comparison almost perfect.

Player 1's career postseason numbers: 22 goals, 41 assists, plus-19.

Player 2's career postseason numbers: 31 goals, 45 assists, plus-4.

Which player would you rather have?

I'll give you a moment to think about it. (I'm whistling ... whistling ... OK, time's up.)

Have you made your choice? Good.

Player 1 is Pavel Datsyuk.

Player 2 is Hossa.

Surprised?

Yes, Datsyuk has a better plus-minus. And yes, Datsyuk's numbers are slightly skewed by poor playoff performances early in his career and by injuries. But remember: Datsyuk was not always the focus of opposing teams in those early years, and some players are more injury-prone than others. That is part of the package.

Anyway, the point here is not that I'd take Hossa over Datsyuk. I wouldn't, and that is irrelevant anyway. The Wings don't have to choose.

(2 of 2)

The question is not: Hossa or Datsyuk? It is: Hossa or no Hossa? Or, to be more accurate: Hossa, or the players you could keep instead of Hossa?

Hossa is a big, aggressive, skilled forward -- precisely the kind of player who should perform well in the postseason. Players of his size and talent are rare.

Did Hossa crack under the stress of trying to win the Cup on a one-year deal, especially against the team he snubbed? Yes, I think so.

But Hossa played under pressure in last year's playoffs, too. He had only 29 goals in the regular season, his lowest total in eight years, and was playing for a new contract. Yet Hossa piled up 12 goals and 26 points in 20 playoff games. So we may have just witnessed a one-year aberration.

I understand why fans are frustrated with Hossa. He was a frustrating player the past two months.

But the last time I saw general manager Ken Holland, he was wearing a suit and tie, not a jersey and face paint; he is an executive, not a fan. Executives understand that a talent like Hossa is hard to replace.

Holland has been told many times over the years that certain players had to go or that it was time to break up the Wings. He doesn't make these decisions on the emotion of the moment.

Hossa's teammates like him. He fits the team's culture, and he's a 40-goal scorer in a league with precious few of those.

Keeping Hossa probably would cost the Wings Mikael Samuelsson and Jiri Hudler. That is the unfortunate reality of a salary-cap league. But the Wings have a strong system and should be able to survive.

Marian Hossa was hard to find during these Stanley Cup finals. But a replacement would be harder to find.

I just finished reading this article and I think it's right on and should give some "fans" here some perspective. Then again, mebee not. Thanks for re-printing it here.

[Packer487 3]

I just finished reading this article and I think it's right on and should give some "fans" here some perspective. Then again, mebee not. Thanks for re-printing it here.

Especially considering if the numbers listed are true, player "B" would be making $2.75 million less than Player A. But Player B is a playoff choker, and only wants to ride the coattails of Player A, dont'chaknow.

[Glubki 17]

Hmmm...

This is difficult.

NO matter what I try, even if Hudler, Holmstrom, Maltby and Samuelsson go, I can't make the cap work with Hossa at 4M. I'm coming up with some nice lines, but only 11 forwards. Moving a Dman is the only sensible choice, but who? Stuart/Kronwall were both good in the regular season, Lilja/E could be an awesome power line, Lids/Rafi is a superb pairing when Rafi hasn't herniated his back.

Lines I can pull together:

Z-D-Cleary

Franzen-Filppula-Hossa

Both solid, but then I just have Kopecky, Abdelkader, Leino, Helm and Draper. I can make a decent third line out of Abdelkader, Helm and Draper, but I'm stuck for a fourth unless Meech plays as the 12th forward.

That's a crazy drop from lines 1-2 to 3-4.

I can't make it work either - every player that leaves has to have a replacement and the guys that are probably leaving don't wash much in salary off the board. Even if you trade Howard and/or sign a backup at the league minimum, Leino at .9M, Kopecky at .5M, dump Lebda and keep Meech as the 13th forward or 7th Dman it is still 1.4M over the cap at a $4M cap hit for Hossa. People have been saying it for 6 months - either Kronwall or Flip would have to go.

[Casey 145]

I can't make it work either - every player that leaves has to have a replacement and the guys that are probably leaving don't wash much in salary off the board. Even if you trade Howard and/or sign a backup at the league minimum, Leino at .9M, Kopecky at .5M, dump Lebda and keep Meech as the 13th forward or 7th Dman it is still 1.4M over the cap at a $4M cap hit for Hossa. People have been saying it for 6 months - either Kronwall or Flip would have to go.

Drop Kronners and splice in Beauchemin from Anaheim. Saves a million.

[hoogs 8]

This guy had 40 goals and you guys don't want him back for 4 mil? Are you nuts??

[SDavis35 140]

Osgood sure sucks too. Should've started Conklin.

If we keep Hossa, he'll be huge for us next year.

If you believe in guys with that kind of talent and give them a chance with good people around them, they'll find their game and live up to their superstar status.

I don't doubt Hossa at all. The guy is going to be that much more hungry next year; he'll be that much more experienced.

I know you'll ride the hype train, but I'll stick to what I know is right. It hasn't failed me yet.

I'll take Hossa IF (and only IF) we don't lose anybody important to our team. In the Red Wings organization, I have no doubt he will become a better player in those pressure situations, but if we have to sacrifice any of our younger players, any of our role playing forwards in order to make cap space for the guy, I'm against it.

[stevie12 5]

I wouldn't sign him. Not just because he wasn't prepared for the playoffs, but because of his character. If we sign him long term he will want out if the team starts going South. He tries when things are going well and folds when their not. Lets save the money and get rid of Hudler and Samuellson and we can go after a solid scoring threat (im thinking someone like Helm but who can bury the rubber)

Still can't believe we lost 4 of 5 though.

Edited June 16, 2009 by stevie12

[rtkoss 0]

some of the people on this forum really annoy me in how stupid they are.... why the hell wouldn't you want hossa on your team... so he had an average playoff? did datsyuk have a better one... he only missed a few games... lets not forget the leading scorer in the regular season.

we sign hossa for 6 mill.. i would be happy as hell. We need some motivation on winning another cup anyhow.

stop knocking hossa...

[Carman 387]

Lets save the money and get rid of Hudler and Samuellson and we can go after a solid scoring threat (im thinking someone like Helm but who can bury the rubber)

So you mean go after Hossa?

[stevie12 5]

So you mean go after Hossa?

Helm had heart though. It was obvious when you watched him winning battles. Hossa had more jump in the regular season. I'm not saying he's not a scoring threat but he is the wrong guy to lock up.

[Mtl-PenFan 0]

Actually, it's Hossa who doesn't want Pittsburgh. Remember?

And look how well that turned out.

I live near Ottawa and know a ton of Senator fans who can't stand the guy. With all the talent in the world, he preferred to sort of blend in instead of stand out, especially in the playoffs where others like Alfredsson and Yashin and Havlat would do the heavy lifting. It's one of the main reasons he signed with Detroit, because he didn't have to be the centerpiece just like in Ottawa. He's been an underachiever his entire career and Holland should just stick to signing his home grown talent rather than someone who prefers to be a passenger.

[Packer487 3]

I wouldn't sign him. Not just because he wasn't prepared for the playoffs, but because of his character. If we sign him long term he will want out if the team starts going South. He tries when things are going well and folds when their not. Lets save the money and get rid of Hudler and Samuellson and we can go after a solid scoring threat (im thinking someone like Helm but who can bury the rubber)

Still can't believe we lost 4 of 5 though.

It absolutely blows my mind how many people are questioning the character of one of the few athletes on the planet who said "It's not about the money" and actually meant it, and turning it into "He's just a front-runner who wants to ride other people's coattails".

You take your $4 million and find a "solid scoring threat" on the open market. I'll take my $4 million and sign Hossa. We'll see who ends up with the better player.

Some more numbers for the people being hypocrites by calling Hossa a playoff choker and giving Datsyuk the benefit of the doubt:

With 49 points in his last 56 playoff games, Datsyuk has completely shed the label of being a playoff underachiever. And notice that he's getting the benefit of the doubt for his postseason performance, where he only scored one goal even before he missed games with a broken foot. That wouldn't have happened several years ago.

Now look at Hossa. Datsyuk's 49 points in 56 games has been enough to shed his label as a perennial underachiever (more due to 39 points in 40 games over the 07 and 08 playoffs than what he did this year). Well, Hossa has had 41 points in 43 games over the past two playoff years and has 46 points in his last 54 playoff games. Pretty darn comparable to the best of Datsyuk's career, no?

Then when you factor in that Hossa, in addition to the numbers above, has an additional season where he scored 16 points in 18 games and another where he scored 10 points in 12 games, it becomes exceedingly difficult to see why he's been labeled as someone who can't perform in the postseason and who only had "one good year" referring to last season with the Penguins.

Let me be perfectly clear: The 16 points in 18 games and 10 points in 12 games were not factored into his numbers that are almost identical to the best playoff stretch of Pavel Datsyuk's career.

Outside of the past 3 playoffs for Datsyuk, he has 42 games played and a line of 3-12--15. Outside of the past 4 playoffs for Hossa (to get the breakdown to be equivalent), he has 44 games played and a line of 10-20--30.

Then when you factor in that--assuming the Freep's numbers are correct--Hossa would be getting $2.75 million per season LESS than Datsyuk, it's really hard to see how anyone could be against this.

And once again, I'm not saying this playoff run was Datsyuk's fault, that I think he's overpaid, that I want him gone, that I think he's a playoff choker, or anything of the sort. I like Datsyuk an awful lot (something I most definitely wouldn't have said a few years ago--beyond the fact that he was entertaining to watch). I just think it's hilarious to watch people fall all over themselves to run him out of town for only being our fourth-leading scorer in the playoffs when he had more pressure on himself than anyone in the league outside of Crosby.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

This thread is a riot. Four pages of babble about Hossa taking $4M per, and yet the article cited is pure speculation, and the reality of the fact is that Hossa would actually have to accept a contract thats easily 2/3 of his worth, even in a penny-pinching future.

[Packer487 3]

And look how well that turned out.

I live near Ottawa and know a ton of Senator fans who can't stand the guy. With all the talent in the world, he preferred to sort of blend in instead of stand out, especially in the playoffs where others like Alfredsson and Yashin and Havlat would do the heavy lifting. It's one of the main reasons he signed with Detroit, because he didn't have to be the centerpiece just like in Ottawa. He's been an underachiever his entire career and Holland should just stick to signing his home grown talent rather than someone who prefers to be a passenger.

Yeah, he's just a steaming pile of poo, scoring 92 and 100 points back to back years with Atlanta.

For the record, here are the numbers from Ottawa's 02-03 team, when Hossa didn't have "a good playoff year" according to most people's standards who will only acknowledge that he's had success in the playoffs once: (All in 18 games played)

Hossa: 5-11--16

Bonk: 6-5--11

Havlat: 5-6--11

Alfredsson: 4-4--8 (that is some heavy lifting)

So he only led the team in scoring by 5 points.

Not good enough? How bout 01-02? (12 games played)

Alfredsson: 7-6--13

Hossa: 4-6--10

Bonk: 3-7--10

Havlat: 2-5--7

Hell, how bout 03-04 when they lost in seven:

Hossa: 3-1--4

Havlat: 0-3--3

Alfredsson: 1-2--3

Hossa was the only player on the team with more than one goal in that series. In a 7 game series. He was the only player on the team to score more than once. What a ******* choker.

2000-01 when they got swept out in round one:

Hossa: 1-1--2

McEachern: 0-2--2

Alfredsson: 1-0--1

Yashin: 0-1--1

They scored three goals in the series. He was in one two of them.

1998-99:

Alfredsson: 1-2--3

Hossa: 0-2--2

Yashin: 0-0--0

99-2000 was the only year where he wasn't right at the top of the Sens scoring leaders when he had 0-0--0 in six games. But even then Alfredsson had 1 whole goal.

So in all the years Hossa played for the Sens, Alfredsson outscored Hossa three times, Hossa outscored Alfredsson three times. Yashin NEVER outscored him. Neither did Havlat.

Hossa had 34 points in 51 games over those six seasons, Alfredsson had 32 points in 51 games.

And actually, IN HIS CAREER Yashin never topped 5 goals or 8 points in one playoff season, so pretty much you were just talking out of your ass on that one when you said he was along for the ride while those other guys did the heavy lifting, weren't you?

Edited June 16, 2009 by Packer487

[uk_redwing 495]

Where in that article does it say Detroit are going to offer a 4mil cap hit contract? It only says what they COULD do. They could also offer him $500,000 and a bag of cheese.

[Dominator2005 558]

Where in that article does it say Detroit are going to offer a 4mil cap hit contract? It only says what they COULD do. They could also offer him $500,000 and a bag of cheese.

Right!!!

[Dominator2005 558]

Yeah, he's just a steaming pile of poo, scoring 92 and 100 points back to back years with Atlanta.

For the record, here are the numbers from Ottawa's 02-03 team, when Hossa didn't have "a good playoff year" according to most people's standards who will only acknowledge that he's had success in the playoffs once: (All in 18 games played)

Hossa: 5-11--16

Bonk: 6-5--11

Havlat: 5-6--11

Alfredsson: 4-4--8 (that is some heavy lifting)

So he only led the team in scoring by 5 points.

Not good enough? How bout 01-02? (12 games played)

Alfredsson: 7-6--13

Hossa: 4-6--10

Bonk: 3-7--10

Havlat: 2-5--7

Hell, how bout 03-04 when they lost in seven:

Hossa: 3-1--4

Havlat: 0-3--3

Alfredsson: 1-2--3

Hossa was the only player on the team with more than one goal in that series. In a 7 game series. He was the only player on the team to score more than once. What a ******* choker.

2000-01 when they got swept out in round one:

Hossa: 1-1--2

McEachern: 0-2--2

Alfredsson: 1-0--1

Yashin: 0-1--1

They scored three goals in the series. He was in one two of them.

1998-99:

Alfredsson: 1-2--3

Hossa: 0-2--2

Yashin: 0-0--0

99-2000 was the only year where he wasn't right at the top of the Sens scoring leaders when he had 0-0--0 in six games. But even then Alfredsson had 1 whole goal.

So in all the years Hossa played for the Sens, Alfredsson outscored Hossa three times, Hossa outscored Alfredsson three times. Yashin NEVER outscored him. Neither did Havlat.

And actually, Yashin never topped 5 goals or 8 points in one playoff season, so pretty much you were just talking out of your ass on that one when you said he did the heavy lifting, weren't you?

Nice search!!!

[detwings91 0]

Why sign a playoff choker, I don't get it...

gotta agree with ya man, plus last year hossa was on fire in the playoffs so the entire statement makes no sense.