247 replies to this topic

[YoungGuns1340]

Crosby made Hossa look better than he actual is. Fact.

Is that why they both had 3 points in the Finals? Crosby was as bad as Hossa offensively, worse defensively, and other worldly in terms of his immaturity.

[Casey]

We NEED Lilja. He is our #1 shot blocker. The area where we struggled in the playoffs was the PK. Having Lilja to lay down in front of some of those shots might have made the difference.

Big E was great but on the PK, I'd rather have Lilja.

Lilja-Ericsson would be a great pairing.

[rage]

Crosby made Hossa look better than he actual is. Fact.

Of course, because Crosby is awesome dude.

[tommingthepuck96]

I mean LOL. Flip is as WING as one can be. He's not going anywhere. There's no point signing Hoss if we don't have Flip. Those two need to be together.

I remember babcock saying to an interviewer one day that its not really about 3 man lines, more about 2 man combinations.

Heres my view.... Z and mule are combination 1. And Hossa and filppula are combination 2. Datsyuk, bar none the most complete player in the league rotates in where ever needed depending on line match-ups/injuries. (That said im taking nothing away from Z or Hossas two way game.)

Back to my point...In my opinion filppula is just as vital to hossa as hossa is to filppula. Filppula is a natural pass first guy, and a great passer, hossa is a natural shoot first guy, and probably the best goal scorer on the team. If hossa does Re-sign, you need to have these 2 guys together at all times during the year. I can't see filppula being traded in order to keep hossa. Its just not going to happen.

Edited by tommingthepuck96, 17 June 2009 - 12:50 PM.

[Winged_Wheeler]

I'm going to say this again...the Red Wings are not getting rid of Valterri Filppula. Do you guys even pay attention when he's on the ice? He's got great hands, can dangle dangle, excellent passer, and can hit when he wants. He reminds me of Datsyuk and Zetterberg when they first started on the Wings, does he not? Filppula's one of the best skaters on the team too, reminds me a lot of Fedorov. Once he gets his shot down he'll be unstoppable. All European players are taught to pass to the open man before shooting. What did Datsyuk do when he first came to the team? Pass, pass, pass, until Brett Hull told him to shoot more. There's no doubt in my mind that Zetterberg is telling Filppula the same thing.

[FedorovMan91]

I have read the front and the back of the thread and there are some coomments of suggesting trade Filppula. Huh? What are you guys thinking? Because he had one terrible regular season as the first contract, it does not mean he is just horrible player. I think Filppula can be a very skilled player in the future if there is one great goal scorer and one player who can play physically.

[Echolalia]

Crosby made Hossa look better than he actual is. Fact.

Instead of simply stating "fact" in hopes of proving your point, how about you back up your argument with actual substance. Pointlessly throwing "fact" around might win a debate in a Pens forum, but we're used to support and substance here, so if you plan on trolling here for a while (which I assume will be the case, based on the fact that we're already 5 days into the summer and you're still here), learn how to defend your statements. Who knows, if you properly defend yourself long enough, people might just be willing to take you a bit more seriously.
I'll give you an example of supporting an argument by retorting:
Hossa had 10 points in 12 games with the Penguins in the regular season for a ppg of .83. Because the Wings don't have Crosby, one would assume based on your "argument" that Hossa's ppg would go down. Surprisingly, this is not so . Hossa's ppg was at .96 this year, which is significantly higher than when he was playing on the Pens. In the postseason last year, Hossa's numbers were almost identical to Crosby's, which is often the case when two players play on the same line. As many people have already tried to explain to you through your "fact" throwing, this trend continued in this year's Finals. Both players only had three points. So instead of saying Hossa is nothing without Crosby, it would appear that the argument could be made that Crosby is nothing without a player who actually knows how to score goals (6 goals throughout the entire playoffs last year, with the majority of his assists on Hossa's goals. This year, 15 goals is much more impressive, but when the Pens get around to versing a team that actually knows how to play defense, only 1 goal in 7 games, and only 2 assists). Granted, Hossa did have a bad year offensively this postseason, but I still feel that enough has been said to refute your "fact". Actually, I could have just saved a bunch of time and said "Hossa makes Crosby look better than he actually is. Fact." and called the debate a draw.

[BlakKy]

Crosby made Hossa look better than he actual is. Fact.

This year he had a better plus minus and more goals than Crosby. This is of course without Crosby centering him.

I feel bad stating these facts since this year Hossa had the advantage of playing with the best Center in the league. Undoubtedly inflating his numbers beyond what he would be capable of playing for Pittsburgh.

[xtrememachine1]

Instead of simply stating "fact" in hopes of proving your point, how about you back up your argument with actual substance. Pointlessly throwing "fact" around might win a debate in a Pens forum, but we're used to support and substance here, so if you plan on trolling here for a while (which I assume will be the case, based on the fact that we're already 5 days into the summer and you're still here), learn how to defend your statements. Who knows, if you properly defend yourself long enough, people might just be willing to take you a bit more seriously.
I'll give you an example of supporting an argument by retorting:
Hossa had 10 points in 12 games with the Penguins in the regular season for a ppg of .83. Because the Wings don't have Crosby, one would assume based on your "argument" that Hossa's ppg would go down. Surprisingly, this is not so . Hossa's ppg was at .96 this year, which is significantly higher than when he was playing on the Pens. In the postseason last year, Hossa's numbers were almost identical to Crosby's, which is often the case when two players play on the same line. As many people have already tried to explain to you through your "fact" throwing, this trend continued in this year's Finals. Both players only had three points. So instead of saying Hossa is nothing without Crosby, it would appear that the argument could be made that Crosby is nothing without a player who actually knows how to score goals (6 goals throughout the entire playoffs last year, with the majority of his assists on Hossa's goals. This year, 15 goals is much more impressive, but when the Pens get around to versing a team that actually knows how to play defense, only 1 goal in 7 games, and only 2 assists). Granted, Hossa did have a bad year offensively this postseason, but I still feel that enough has been said to refute your "fact". Actually, I could have just saved a bunch of time and said "Hossa makes Crosby look better than he actually is. Fact." and called the debate a draw.

Pens fans no like lots of words. Hurts head to read

[rage]

I'm going to say this again...the Red Wings are not getting rid of Valterri Filppula. Do you guys even pay attention when he's on the ice? He's got great hands, can dangle dangle, excellent passer, and can hit when he wants. He reminds me of Datsyuk and Zetterberg when they first started on the Wings, does he not? Filppula's one of the best skaters on the team too, reminds me a lot of Fedorov. Once he gets his shot down he'll be unstoppable. All European players are taught to pass to the open man before shooting. What did Datsyuk do when he first came to the team? Pass, pass, pass, until Brett Hull told him to shoot more. There's no doubt in my mind that Zetterberg is telling Filppula the same thing.

I have read the front and the back of the thread and there are some coomments of suggesting trade Filppula. Huh? What are you guys thinking? Because he had one terrible regular season as the first contract, it does not mean he is just horrible player. I think Filppula can be a very skilled player in the future if there is one great goal scorer and one player who can play physically.

These are probably directed at me, but let me clarify.

The one reason I say they would have to trade Flip is it's the one way I see Hossa staying, because I really doubt his cap hit will only be $4 million. Remember they might sign Conks again, and he might get a raise.

So even after letting Hudler/Sammy go, it's near impossible keeping Flip and adding Hossa's new contract. Right? Unless they trade Kronwall, which they would not do either.

Basically I just don't see Hossa being able to stay w/o a trade of a $3 million salary.

[Finnish Wing]

These are probably directed at me, but let me clarify.

The one reason I say they would have to trade Flip is it's the one way I see Hossa staying, because I really doubt his cap hit will only be $4 million. Remember they might sign Conks again, and he might get a raise.

So even after letting Hudler/Sammy go, it's near impossible keeping Flip and adding Hossa's new contract. Right? Unless they trade Kronwall, which they would not do either.

Basically I just don't see Hossa being able to stay w/o a trade of a $3 million salary.

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Cleary
Franzen-Filppula-Hossa
Leino-Helm-Draper
Maltby-Abdelkader-Kopecky

Lidström-Rafalski
Kronwall-Stuart
Lebda/Lilja-Ericsson

Osgood
Conklin

I can see this working.

[rage]

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Cleary
Franzen-Filppula-Hossa
Leino-Helm-Draper
Maltby-Abdelkader-Kopecky

Lidström-Rafalski
Kronwall-Stuart
Lebda/Lilja-Ericsson

Osgood
Conklin

I can see this working.

Show me on this Cap Calculator. I can't seem to get it under the Cap.

http://tinyurl.com/m2g5m7

[Nev]

I have read the front and the back of the thread and there are some coomments of suggesting trade Filppula. Huh? What are you guys thinking? Because he had one terrible regular season as the first contract, it does not mean he is just horrible player. I think Filppula can be a very skilled player in the future if there is one great goal scorer and one player who can play physically.

That terrible regular season being the one where he set career highs in assists and points? Despite spending most of the season on the 3rd line and getting little PP time?

I guess the point remains that he and Kronwall are the only significant salaries we have that don't have a NTC which means they can be bandied about as cap relief. Madness, but there you go.

[FedorovMan91]

These are probably directed at me, but let me clarify.

The one reason I say they would have to trade Flip is it's the one way I see Hossa staying, because I really doubt his cap hit will only be $4 million. Remember they might sign Conks again, and he might get a raise.

So even after letting Hudler/Sammy go, it's near impossible keeping Flip and adding Hossa's new contract. Right? Unless they trade Kronwall, which they would not do either.

Basically I just don't see Hossa being able to stay w/o a trade of a $3 million salary.

I had nothing comment being directed at you, it is just my opinion.

I think Filppula is overpaid but he is still 25 years old. There is still bunch of chance he can develop himself to be an important player.

And here is the link for next year's cap chart: http://www.nhlnumber...amp;season=0910

To start, let me state that I am not a crazy fan of re-signing Hossa this summer. We have precisely 5 million cap left. We have Hudler, Samuelsson, Hossa, Kopecky, McCarty, Downey, Leino, and Conklin. There is no chance we can sign all players here.

McCary, Downey, and Kopecky should be gone this summer even though they don't eat up much cap space. However, we should not let Leino to walk out because he is our biggest prospect from the AHL.

If then, players left are Hudler, Samuelsson, Hossa, and Conklin. Be honest, I don't think Holland even wants to re-sign Samuelsson. I have called him not fit to this team at all because he cannot control the puck. The only question is Hossa, Conklin, and Hudler. However, if we re-sign Leino, we don't need to re-sign Hudler because Leino can replace Hudler's spot. Besides, the reason I don't want Hudler is because of his toughness and his size; I mentioned this in another thread but again. We all noticed how easily he got knocked out in front of physical teams like the Ducks.

For Conklin, I feel sorry for him. He was our number one goaltender in the regular season. If he is willing to take the same amount of cap, I would welcome him. I honestly don't trust Howard that much either. But, somehow I don't see Holland will re-sign him. He stated Howard will be in the Wings team next season for sure.

The only way we can re-sign Hossa is trading Holmstrom, who performed like a crap during the whole season. Holmstrom eats up 2.25 million cap number. If we get rid of him, we have 7 million cap number left. Then, we may have a chance to re-sign Hossa.

Besides, I agree with you perfectly about Hossa's cap number. I don't see how he will take 4 million cap number while other teams may offer to him by at least 7 million.

[ElCapitan]

Crosby made Hossa look better than he actual is. Fact.

Uh...OK. Silly Troll!

[Probie]

Show me on this Cap Calculator. I can't seem to get it under the Cap.

http://tinyurl.com/m2g5m7

Yours doesnt work because Gator makes 660,000 a year, you have him earning 850. Make that change and we are just under....

[rwcleary11]

i would love if hossa re signed with detroit even tho his playoff performance was a little mediocre. i just think he put way to much pressure on himself. I hope hes not thinking about returning to Pittsburgh either.

[rage]

I had nothing comment being directed at you, it is just my opinion.

I think Filppula is overpaid but he is still 25 years old. There is still bunch of chance he can develop himself to be an important player.

And here is the link for next year's cap chart: http://www.nhlnumber...amp;season=0910

To start, let me state that I am not a crazy fan of re-signing Hossa this summer. We have precisely 5 million cap left. We have Hudler, Samuelsson, Hossa, Kopecky, McCarty, Downey, Leino, and Conklin. There is no chance we can sign all players here.

McCary, Downey, and Kopecky should be gone this summer even though they don't eat up much cap space. However, we should not let Leino to walk out because he is our biggest prospect from the AHL.

If then, players left are Hudler, Samuelsson, Hossa, and Conklin. Be honest, I don't think Holland even wants to re-sign Samuelsson. I have called him not fit to this team at all because he cannot control the puck. The only question is Hossa, Conklin, and Hudler. However, if we re-sign Leino, we don't need to re-sign Hudler because Leino can replace Hudler's spot. Besides, the reason I don't want Hudler is because of his toughness and his size; I mentioned this in another thread but again. We all noticed how easily he got knocked out in front of physical teams like the Ducks.

For Conklin, I feel sorry for him. He was our number one goaltender in the regular season. If he is willing to take the same amount of cap, I would welcome him. I honestly don't trust Howard that much either. But, somehow I don't see Holland will re-sign him. He stated Howard will be in the Wings team next season for sure.

The only way we can re-sign Hossa is trading Holmstrom, who performed like a crap during the whole season. Holmstrom eats up 2.25 million cap number. If we get rid of him, we have 7 million cap number left. Then, we may have a chance to re-sign Hossa.

Besides, I agree with you perfectly about Hossa's cap number. I don't see how he will take 4 million cap number while other teams may offer to him by at least 7 million.

I think that's a pretty good break down. I agree with you on just about everything there. It's sad really, but I too don't see how we can keep Hossa. Maybe if we were in this situation next off season (when Lidstrom's contract expires) there is a way we can keep Hossa. However, this year? You are right, I just don't see it.

I agree we should let Hudler and Sammy walk. I know everybody loves Hudler and all but I think we'll be okay w/o him. I am not sure if Lenio can put up the numbers that Hudler did, but we'll see. Especially if we don't keep Hossa, get somebody else (UFA) to take Hudler's roster spot. People are really high on Lappy. Hell, why not try something like that?

I just don't see them trading Homer. I'd personally hate to see him go.

I'm on the fence about Kopecky. He'd probably be real cheap again. Love to see some new blood on the third and forth line.

So yeah, the only way I see us keeping Hossa is if we trade one of three, Homer/Flip/Kronwall. I just don't think Holland will do either.

[rage]

Yours doesnt work because Gator makes 660,000 a year, you have him earning 850. Make that change and we are just under....

Actually that was not my lineup. They have him at 850 automatically.

And if you look here, his cap hit is 850.

I think this is more realistic (includes Hossa at $5.5 and $59 mill Cap).

[FedorovMan91]

I think that's a pretty good break down. I agree with you on just about everything there. It's sad really, but I too don't see how we can keep Hossa. Maybe if we were in this situation next off season (when Lidstrom's contract expires) there is a way we can keep Hossa. However, this year? You are right, I just don't see it.

I agree we should let Hudler and Sammy walk. I know everybody loves Hudler and all but I think we'll be okay w/o him. I am not sure if Lenio can put up the numbers that Hudler did, but we'll see. Especially if we don't keep Hossa, get somebody else (UFA) to take Hudler's roster spot. People are really high on Lappy. Hell, why not try something like that?

I just don't see them trading Homer. I'd personally hate to see him go.

I'm on the fence about Kopecky. He'd probably be real cheap again. Love to see some new blood on the third and forth line.

So yeah, the only way I see us keeping Hossa is if we trade one of three, Homer/Flip/Kronwall. I just don't think Holland will do either.

Yeah, I am totally with you. We have been hearing for a decade that the Wings keep the loyalty toward the players they drafted. The list you mentioned Homer/Filp/Kronwall, they are from the Wings' draft picks. Holland will never trade him with the recognitionthat Kronwall and Filppula still have much period to develop their own plays.

I think Holmstrom should be traded but I don't feel that. He had an injury for the half of the season and I think it hurt him but I still believe 2.25 million for him is a waste if we conside he cannot put up more than 50 points anymore by the factor of his age or other circumstances.

I am with you, I don't see how Hossa can resign by 4 million. Besides, there is no official report of this. It is just our prediction. If we can keep Hossa by 4 million, people who don't want him are totally out of the world. The Maginot line of making a contract with Hossa is 4.5 million for me. But is it going to happen? I say 0.000000000001% it can happen.

Without Hossa, our offensive depth will be still top 5 in the league. This is the assumption we don't resign Hossa

Z-D-H
Franzen-Filppula-Leino(or Cleary)
Helm-Hudler-Cleary(or Leino)
Draper-Maltby-Abdelkader

I think the lack of production from Holmstrom is an injury issue but I think separating him from Zetterberg and Datsyuk really hurt him. I think we may have to see how he does with the top two defensive forwards in the league. Besides, I will still get rid of Samuelsson from my best line for the next season. By paying him, get a like Chris Neil.

Personally, I think this regular season was the worst regular season for the Wings you ever watched. I never saw the Wings defenses got destoryed like this or winnning the game by the score by like 6-5, 5-4, which is like the Flyers who fail again and again in the playoff. I think Stuart and Kronwall will step up next season and same with Lidstrom and Rafalski. Hopefully Lilja gets healthy and be paired with Ericsson.

I don't know how people will think of me if I say this, but I don't see the Wings get to the final next season. I think the Hawks will be a huge challenge next season and same with the Jackets. Wings, however, surely makes the playoff but I just cannot imagine the Wings can do that well next season. We may need 2 or 3 seasons so the kids like Leino, Abdelkader, Helm, and Ericsson find their games.