Rafalski, Stuart, Draper, Maltby, Holmstrom and Filppula

[UKWING 8]

I feel like Kenny is more likely to let players like Hudler, Sammy, Meech and Cheli go to drop salary than trade away any of our top line guys. He's a creative guy. He'll keep the core players together and build from the bottom up. Personally, I think Stuart is overpaid and would like to see him traded to drop salary, but I just don't see it happening.

that will not free up enough space to sign hossa - even at $4m per year. if hossa re-signs then the wings have to let all the guys you mention walk and trade someone

[Probie 7]

If Holland does trade Flipulla, who the hell is Hossa going to play with? Him and Datysuk played terribly together in the play-offs, and the only guys Hossa could even get it going with was Franzen and Flipulla. Flipulla fits into the system to well as a 3rd line center, and his potential to become a star is much higher then anyone currently in the roster, including Helm.

exactly what ive been saying...hossa doesnt work with dats or z.....only with flip

[eva unit zero 271]

Flips replaceable. I don't care if he reminds you of Pavel, it's still an absurd comparison. Pavel looked like a potential superstar right out of the gate. Flip absolutely does not. He's terrible at finishing plays. And again, it's not a total knock on the guy, but he's the highest paid player that's replaceable and that'll be easier to do in 2010/11. Keeping Hossa would mean far more to this team long-term than keeping Flip. If you have to sacrifice him and what he brings to his role for a year, it's worth it. We can refill it in 2010/11.

And you said it best, 29 other teams would love to have him. That's why if we need to shed some space, he'll go. He'll bring the biggest return of any of our guys that can be traded.

And Stuart has a NTC for next season.

Draper/Maltby/Holmstrom - exactly, they won't be moved. That's why Flip probably will if we keep Hossa.

Stuart does have an NTC, but you missed something.

Stuart, not Filppula, is the highest paid replaceable player on the Red Wings. And if they have to trade ONE player, he is the #1 option to consider because Ericsson has proven he can play top-four minutes, and Lilja, Meech, and Lebda all are decent #5-6 defensemen.

Trading Stuart provides enough cap space for raises for Hudler, Samuelsson, Leino, and Kopecky if you don't keep Hossa, plus some extra space.

Trading Stuart plus either Filppula or Cleary allows for Hossa to be retained, at the likely cost of Samuelsson as UFA but no other significant roster players.

Giving up Hudler and Samuelsson doesn't provide enough cap room and opens up too many forward spots. It simply won't happen, regardless of whoever speculates what. They might both be gone, but so will a defenseman.

That defenseman hopefully will be Brad Stuart, and might be Andreas Lilja...but unfortunately might also be Niklas Kronwall.

But the best way to retain the current roster as closely as possible is to trade Stuart and either Filppula or Cleary. Lose Conklin, Samuelsson, Chelios to UFA, bring up Helm, Howard, Leino (resigned), Ericsson, resign Hudler, Kopecky, Hossa. Lilja can even play in the top four if you don't trust Ericsson.

[Zetts 236]

Stuart does have an NTC, but you missed something.

Stuart, not Filppula, is the highest paid replaceable player on the Red Wings. And if they have to trade ONE player, he is the #1 option to consider because Ericsson has proven he can play top-four minutes, and Lilja, Meech, and Lebda all are decent #5-6 defensemen.

Trading Stuart provides enough cap space for raises for Hudler, Samuelsson, Leino, and Kopecky if you don't keep Hossa, plus some extra space.

Trading Stuart plus either Filppula or Cleary allows for Hossa to be retained, at the likely cost of Samuelsson as UFA but no other significant roster players.

Giving up Hudler and Samuelsson doesn't provide enough cap room and opens up too many forward spots. It simply won't happen, regardless of whoever speculates what. They might both be gone, but so will a defenseman.

That defenseman hopefully will be Brad Stuart, and might be Andreas Lilja...but unfortunately might also be Niklas Kronwall.

But the best way to retain the current roster as closely as possible is to trade Stuart and either Filppula or Cleary. Lose Conklin, Samuelsson, Chelios to UFA, bring up Helm, Howard, Leino (resigned), Ericsson, resign Hudler, Kopecky, Hossa.

Lilja can even play in the top four if you don't trust Ericsson.

Lidstrom Rafalski

Kronwall Ericsson

Lebda Lilja (IF he's healthy)

Meech

That would get ugly pretty quickly if we got any injuries in the playoffs. There's no depth if we start trading d-men, since we're probably losing Chelios too. The only way they can even consider trading Stuart is if they KNOW that Lilja will be healthy, and even then it's a stretch.

Any injury to the top 4, and all of a sudden Lebda's playing big minutes and your third pair is what...Meech and Kindl? Any sort of UFA signing to replace Stuart would obviously be for a very low salary defenseman since the whole point of the trade to get rid of salary. So then the only option wouuld by a Cory Cross-type player. That doesn't really make me feel much better.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

Well, according to some people, anybody would be able to replace him. Hell, I guess you or I could replace him. It's not like Flip lead the team, along with Z, in assists in the playoffs or anything.

This thread, started with good intentions, goes to show the plain stupidity of some ppsters on this site. Flip, at 25, has just finished 3rd in points and tied for the team lead in assists and according to some he's still so easily replaced. Give me a freaking break, I'm tired of hearing it.

[ben_usmc 253]

god I hope we don't trade flip, he is a playoff performer. A lot of these people saying Datysuk looked like a superstar were probably the same wanting him not resigned because he was a playoff "choker". Flip looks great is much younger then Datsyuk, not to mention he gets to learn from Datsyuk. I bet by the time Flip is 30 he will be near Datsyuk's level.

Edited June 19, 2009 by ben_usmc

[gcom007 1,465]

Take a look at some of Flip's goals and tell me he is a terrible finisher. He is an awesome finisher, he just doesn't get very many chances.

If flip leaves who are you going to have center the second line? Draper? Helm? Get real.

He doesn't get many chances because he doesn't finish plays! Did you honestly think you were making a point there? Guys like Dats, Z and Hossa don't leave plays up to chance. They create their own luck by finishing plays. It's what superstars do. Flip doesn't have it in him. You're born with it or you're not. He doesn't have the fire.

And I don't give a s*** who centers the line next year. It's a one year issue and we're talking about signing a premiere and proven superstar up for life. I'll take my chances on one year. We'll have more wiggle room to reign in a descent 2nd/3rd line center in 2010/11. I'm not sure we'll find someone necessarily as good as Flip, but we'll be able to line something up that will more than suffice after this year.

We've got one year to get through on the pinch before we lose some cap weight.

Hossa for life is worth the price of losing Flip.

Edited June 19, 2009 by gcom007

[gcom007 1,465]

Stuart does have an NTC, but you missed something.

Stuart, not Filppula, is the highest paid replaceable player on the Red Wings. And if they have to trade ONE player, he is the #1 option to consider because Ericsson has proven he can play top-four minutes, and Lilja, Meech, and Lebda all are decent #5-6 defensemen.

Trading Stuart provides enough cap space for raises for Hudler, Samuelsson, Leino, and Kopecky if you don't keep Hossa, plus some extra space.

Trading Stuart plus either Filppula or Cleary allows for Hossa to be retained, at the likely cost of Samuelsson as UFA but no other significant roster players.

Giving up Hudler and Samuelsson doesn't provide enough cap room and opens up too many forward spots. It simply won't happen, regardless of whoever speculates what. They might both be gone, but so will a defenseman.

That defenseman hopefully will be Brad Stuart, and might be Andreas Lilja...but unfortunately might also be Niklas Kronwall.

But the best way to retain the current roster as closely as possible is to trade Stuart and either Filppula or Cleary. Lose Conklin, Samuelsson, Chelios to UFA, bring up Helm, Howard, Leino (resigned), Ericsson, resign Hudler, Kopecky, Hossa.

Lilja can even play in the top four if you don't trust Ericsson.

While I agree to some extent about Stuart, the NTC fogs it up not to mention the fact that on the open market, Flip is going to net you a far better return. Furthermore, the lack of a NTC gives the Wings infinitely more flexibility in finding the best deal for them, namely, most/best draft picks. Stuart's NTC plus overall lower-status in general is a bit more binding. That's why I don't think it's reasonable to even consider him in Flip's category. While he is technically the highest paid replaceable player, the issues brought on by the NTC throw it out the window when you're running a business.

I'm sure no one in the organization likes the idea of losing Flip and in many ways I don't even, but they all know they can fill the hole soon enough. They pump him up, but they're not stupid. They know they're not sitting on the next Datsyuk. His contract and the banter associated when he signed it is as laughable as the banter that associated the 5 year/$3 million hit for Kronwall, the future Nick Lidstrom. It's absurd. They're solid, solid players any team would love to have, but the hyping up is nothing more than hype. The players themselves would never have signed those deals if they thought there was even the slightest chance of them following in the footsteps of Dats and Lids.

Kronwall and Flip are solid players that are worthy of a $3-4 million/year deal on any team.

Meanwhile, Hossa's worth $7-8 million/year on any team and might sign with us for $4-5 million/year.

This argument is silly.

Get rational people...

[gcom007 1,465]

exactly what ive been saying...hossa doesnt work with dats or z.....only with flip

One year issue at its worst, and I'm still not worried about it at all.

[eva unit zero 271]

Lidstrom Rafalski

Kronwall Ericsson

Lebda Lilja (IF he's healthy)

Meech

That would get ugly pretty quickly if we got any injuries in the playoffs. There's no depth if we start trading d-men, since we're probably losing Chelios too. The only way they can even consider trading Stuart is if they KNOW that Lilja will be healthy, and even then it's a stretch.

Any injury to the top 4, and all of a sudden Lebda's playing big minutes and your third pair is what...Meech and Kindl? Any sort of UFA signing to replace Stuart would obviously be for a very low salary defenseman since the whole point of the trade to get rid of salary. So then the only option wouuld by a Cory Cross-type player. That doesn't really make me feel much better.

We'd have to have two of the top 5 out injured for Lebda to be getting significant minutes like you stated; Lilja is above him on the depth charts and should be back for the season opener. That's an injury everyone has forgotten when mentioning injured players like Raffi, Lids, Draper, and Dats; the Wings' best shot blocker and one of their better PKers and defensive defensemen missed the entire postseason.

But tell me...which of these options do you prefer:

Forwards: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Hossa, Franzen, Hudler, Cleary, Holmstrom, Leino, Helm, Kopecky, Draper, Maltby

Defensemen: Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Ericsson, Lilja, Lebda, Meech

Goaltenders: Osgood, Howard

OR

Forwards: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Hudler, Cleary, Samuelsson, Holmstrom, Leino, Helm, Kopecky, Draper, Maltby

Defensemen: Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stuart, Ericsson, Lilja, Lebda, Meech

Goaltenders: Osgood, Howard

OR

Forwards: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Hudler, Filppula, Cleary, Samuelsson, Holmstrom, Leino, Helm, Kopecky, Draper, Maltby

Defensemen: Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Ericsson, Lilja, Lebda, Meech

Goaltenders: Osgood, Howard

Go ahead. Pick your preferred roster. Which is better for the team? I know my opinion. And it's not the one that keeps Stuart.

[gcom007 1,465]

We'd have to have two of the top 5 out injured for Lebda to be getting significant minutes like you stated; Lilja is above him on the depth charts and should be back for the season opener. That's an injury everyone has forgotten when mentioning injured players like Raffi, Lids, Draper, and Dats; the Wings' best shot blocker and one of their better PKers and defensive defensemen missed the entire postseason.

Too true. People forget how much Lilja stepped up last post-season and even the previous one. He wasn't just adequate, he was great. He was a huge part of our success both years and caught a real rough break against the Ducks in '07 that still cast a bit of a shadow on his contributions. But in '08, he was huge for us. That was a huge loss for us heading in this year, far more than has been noted.

[ethier_marc 1]

Flip Flip, a minor leaguer and a pick to Ottawa for Dany Heatley. Genius!

[UKWING 8]

We'd have to have two of the top 5 out injured for Lebda to be getting significant minutes like you stated; Lilja is above him on the depth charts and should be back for the season opener. That's an injury everyone has forgotten when mentioning injured players like Raffi, Lids, Draper, and Dats; the Wings' best shot blocker and one of their better PKers and defensive defensemen missed the entire postseason.

But tell me...which of these options do you prefer:

Forwards: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Hossa, Franzen, Hudler, Cleary, Holmstrom, Leino, Helm, Kopecky, Draper, Maltby

Defensemen: Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Ericsson, Lilja, Lebda, Meech

Goaltenders: Osgood, Howard

OR

Forwards: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Hudler, Cleary, Samuelsson, Holmstrom, Leino, Helm, Kopecky, Draper, Maltby

Defensemen: Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stuart, Ericsson, Lilja, Lebda, Meech

Goaltenders: Osgood, Howard

OR

Forwards: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Hudler, Filppula, Cleary, Samuelsson, Holmstrom, Leino, Helm, Kopecky, Draper, Maltby

Defensemen: Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Ericsson, Lilja, Lebda, Meech

Goaltenders: Osgood, Howard

Go ahead. Pick your preferred roster. Which is better for the team? I know my opinion. And it's not the one that keeps Stuart.

if lilja is healthy then i fully agree that stuart is the most expendable player on the wings roster. however, hudler will probably command a salary of around $2.5m per year and i would rather have flip for $3m per year. so i would like to see the following roster:

Forwards: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Hossa, Franzen, Filppula, Cleary, Holmstrom, Leino, Helm, Kopecky, Draper, Maltby

Defensemen: Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Ericsson, Lilja, Lebda, Meech

Goaltenders: Osgood, Howard

EDIT: actually i would like the wings to try and add a guy like travis moen for the 3rd line and have leino start the year in grand rapids.

Edited June 19, 2009 by UKWING

[Zetts 236]

We'd have to have two of the top 5 out injured for Lebda to be getting significant minutes like you stated; Lilja is above him on the depth charts and should be back for the season opener. That's an injury everyone has forgotten when mentioning injured players like Raffi, Lids, Draper, and Dats; the Wings' best shot blocker and one of their better PKers and defensive defensemen missed the entire postseason.

But tell me...which of these options do you prefer:

Forwards: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Hossa, Franzen, Hudler, Cleary, Holmstrom, Leino, Helm, Kopecky, Draper, Maltby

Defensemen: Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Ericsson, Lilja, Lebda, Meech

Goaltenders: Osgood, Howard

OR

Forwards: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Hudler, Cleary, Samuelsson, Holmstrom, Leino, Helm, Kopecky, Draper, Maltby

Defensemen: Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stuart, Ericsson, Lilja, Lebda, Meech

Goaltenders: Osgood, Howard

OR

Forwards: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Hudler, Filppula, Cleary, Samuelsson, Holmstrom, Leino, Helm, Kopecky, Draper, Maltby

Defensemen: Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Ericsson, Lilja, Lebda, Meech

Goaltenders: Osgood, Howard

Go ahead. Pick your preferred roster. Which is better for the team? I know my opinion. And it's not the one that keeps Stuart.

Sorry, I should have been more clear about Lilja. I'm pressuming that he WON'T be back, definitely not for the start of the year, although likely at some point mid-season based on this. After missing that much hockey, as good as he was, I think it's pretty unclear as to how good he'll be.

Let's say he does come back and is fine though. In 07 two of our top 4 were injured, and our defense had all sorts of health problems this year. It fair to say that we probably WILL run into injury problems again. I still prefer a stronger defense. I think Holland has generally shown his preference for depth on defense over offense too.

And my preferred roster would be

Forwards: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Filppula, Cleary, Samuelsson, Holmstrom, Leino, Helm, Kopecky, Draper, Maltby

Defensemen: Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stuart, Ericsson, Lilja, Lebda, Meech

Goaltenders: Osgood, Howard

As a side note, this obviously depends on cap space, which I'm somewhat confused on. I've repeatedly heard the Wings have 4-5 million, although if the cap stays the same, according to redwingscentral we have just under 2.5. Aside from redwingscentral including Abdelkader's salary, I'm unclear as to where the extra cap space is coming from.

[eva unit zero 271]

Sorry, I should have been more clear about Lilja. I'm pressuming that he WON'T be back, definitely not for the start of the year, although likely at some point mid-season based on this. After missing that much hockey, as good as he was, I think it's pretty unclear as to how good he'll be.

Let's say he does come back and is fine though. In 07 two of our top 4 were injured, and our defense had all sorts of health problems this year. It fair to say that we probably WILL run into injury problems again. I still prefer a stronger defense. I think Holland has generally shown his preference for depth on defense over offense too.

And my preferred roster would be

Forwards: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Filppula, Cleary, Samuelsson, Holmstrom, Leino, Helm, Kopecky, Draper, Maltby

Defensemen: Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stuart, Ericsson, Lilja, Lebda, Meech

Goaltenders: Osgood, Howard

As a side note, this obviously depends on cap space, which I'm somewhat confused on. I've repeatedly heard the Wings have 4-5 million, although if the cap stays the same, according to redwingscentral we have just under 2.5. Aside from redwingscentral including Abdelkader's salary, I'm unclear as to where the extra cap space is coming from.

So in other words, you would prefer that the Wings have practically no cap space available?

Plus, if Lebda and Meech are both outside the top 6, one of them will likely be traded. Lebda is the better pick to trade because Meech is just as good or better, more versatile, and cheaper. If they trade Lebda, they can keep Hudler over Samuelsson. Would you rather have Hudler, or Samuelsson and Lebda (as a 7th defenseman)? Remember, Kindl is available to come up if injuries happen on defense. He was ahead of Quincey on the Grand Rapids depth chart before Quincey was let go, and we all know how well Quincey (who I said we should have kept over Lebda) is doing.

[hurtingwingsfan 0]

This thread, started with good intentions, goes to show the plain stupidity of some ppsters on this site. Flip, at 25, has just finished 3rd in points and tied for the team lead in assists and according to some he's still so easily replaced. Give me a freaking break, I'm tired of hearing it.

2006 poor post season by pavel Datsyuk LGW answer trade him

how many bad postseasons did yzerman have

federov

shannahan

lidstrom

every great player has bad post seasons deal with it people if we an keep hossa we do it

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

We'd have to have two of the top 5 out injured for Lebda to be getting significant minutes like you stated; Lilja is above him on the depth charts and should be back for the season opener. That's an injury everyone has forgotten when mentioning injured players like Raffi, Lids, Draper, and Dats; the Wings' best shot blocker and one of their better PKers and defensive defensemen missed the entire postseason.

But tell me...which of these options do you prefer:

Forwards: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Hossa, Franzen, Hudler, Cleary, Holmstrom, Leino, Helm, Kopecky, Draper, Maltby

Defensemen: Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Ericsson, Lilja, Lebda, Meech

Goaltenders: Osgood, Howard

OR

Forwards: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Hudler, Cleary, Samuelsson, Holmstrom, Leino, Helm, Kopecky, Draper, Maltby

Defensemen: Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stuart, Ericsson, Lilja, Lebda, Meech

Goaltenders: Osgood, Howard

OR

Forwards: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Hudler, Filppula, Cleary, Samuelsson, Holmstrom, Leino, Helm, Kopecky, Draper, Maltby

Defensemen: Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Ericsson, Lilja, Lebda, Meech

Goaltenders: Osgood, Howard

Go ahead. Pick your preferred roster. Which is better for the team? I know my opinion. And it's not the one that keeps Stuart.

I'm taking none of those, because that bum Kopecky better not be on the team next year!

[eva unit zero 271]

I'm taking none of those, because that bum Kopecky better not be on the team next year!

Ok, find me someone who brings what Kopecky offers (size, good physical game, good skater, decent skill, decent defensively) for $575k or under then because that's what Kopecky would cost. Sorry you don't like the guy, but the fact is he very well might be the best player in the league in his price range. He could play third line with no trouble and could play on some teams' second lines and contribute well. It's not like he's an Aaron Downey where he's got zero skill and all he can do is fight. The guy can actually play hockey.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Eva you seem to think that just by being on the red wings that any player could automatically be a second line on "other teams". Kopey on the third line is a stretch, nevermind 2nd.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Ok, find me someone who brings what Kopecky offers (size, good physical game, good skater, decent skill, decent defensively) for $575k or under then because that's what Kopecky would cost. Sorry you don't like the guy, but the fact is he very well might be the best player in the league in his price range. He could play third line with no trouble and could play on some teams' second lines and contribute well. It's not like he's an Aaron Downey where he's got zero skill and all he can do is fight. The guy can actually play hockey.

Eva, I can play hockey too, but I'm not taking up a roster spot on a Stanley Cup champion team, there are players in the minors better then Kopecky, and giving him the spot would be a mistake.

Funny you should mention Downey, and there alot closer then you think.

Downeys skating=Kopeckys skating, go ahead and argue but Kopecky has one of the ugliest strides, just like Downey, but is very weak on his feet. (Not debatable, at least once per game he falls over on a light bump)

Downeys puck skills<Kopeckys puck skill, I'll give him this one, he is a european afterall and this should be his claim to fame, Downey grew up on a frickin potatoe farm.

Downeys hockey sense=Kopecky hockey sense, Downey always makes the right play defensively, rarely has made a mistake that cost the Wings in his time here. Kopecky generally makes the smart defensive play as well.

Downeys intangibles>Kopeckys intagibles, one of them has the ability to fight, the other doesnt. They both throw checks, and can throw hard checks. Downeys more vocal on the bench, but Kopeckys a youngerish guy on a veteran team so it's not really his job.

It isnt even that I dont like Kopecky anymore, it's he lost his spot by being injured all the time, and having kids consistently out perform him.

[FunkedUp 29]

I must add that I feel that there isn't a very good chance of Howard cracking the squad next year. Conklin has stated that he wants to remain with the group and there is a good chance of him signing for the same figure (750k). I realize this is slightly more than Howards cap hit (716k) but the difference of 40k is trivial even with us being so close to the ceiling.

We also have Larsson and McCollum coming up, who are not ready for the NHL yet, but are outplaying Howard anyways.

I just don't see it happening. Howard is not the goaltender of the future. The way I see it the line up will be...

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Cleary

Hossa-Fil-Mule

Leino-Helm-Kopy/Abby/?

Maltby-Draper-Homer

Lids-Raf

Kron-Stu

Lilja/Lebda-Easy E

Ozzie

ConkBlock

[Konnan511 1,736]

Lol. I laugh when I see people say Filppula is easily replaceable. It seems some of you play NHL 09 too much. Hossa is not be re-signed unless it's for a 4mil or lower cap hit. Filppula is not being traded away. If you honestly think Kenny is going to trade away a guy who is a true playoff performer, then you need to turn in your hockey fan cards because you clearly do not know anything about hockey.

Blunt, I know, but some of you have your heads so far up your bums it's ridiculous. This site is so full of monkey see monkey do it's not even funny.

[eva unit zero 271]

Eva you seem to think that just by being on the red wings that any player could automatically be a second line on "other teams". Kopey on the third line is a stretch, nevermind 2nd.

Kopecky has the kind of skill to play on a second or third line on many teams. I didn't say he'd turn into some kind of super scoring power forward. I said he'd contribute well. His physical game, good puck skills, and defensive awareness would be useful to a team looking for a physical forward to plug in on the second or third line.

I will make note of the fact that Kopecky DID play time on the Wings' second line for a few games during the season and did not look out of place compared to his linemates, you don't think that he would be more likely to see that kind of time if he played on a worse team?

It's like the Kyle Quincey situation. People wanted to get rid of either Quincey or Meech. I said I felt Lilja was the likely player to go but that it should be Lebda, because Quincey and Meech offered the same or better skills and were younger and cheaper. People on the board said "Durr Lebda is fast and has experience" and what happened? Quincey went to LA and became a first pairing defenseman and scored a ton of points while being defensively responsible.

People talk all the time about how the Wings have so much depth that other teams would be grateful for their depth players. I make a reasonable talent analysis that Kopecky would be a good second or third line player on another team and get jumped on because "he's a bum and only plays fourth line in Detroit."

What line would Mike Grier play on in Detroit? Kyle Calder? How about Dustin Penner? These are guys who, especially in Calder's case, would be lucky to play on the third line for the Wings as they were last year. They obviously have some talent and can do well on teams with less forward talent than Detroit.

[VM1138 1,921]

Ok, find me someone who brings what Kopecky offers (size, good physical game, good skater, decent skill, decent defensively) for $575k or under then because that's what Kopecky would cost. Sorry you don't like the guy, but the fact is he very well might be the best player in the league in his price range. He could play third line with no trouble and could play on some teams' second lines and contribute well. It's not like he's an Aaron Downey where he's got zero skill and all he can do is fight. The guy can actually play hockey.

Kopecky is useless. We'd be better off playing with one less player. Don't talk about his "value" because he has none.

EDIT: Eva, I can't recall anyone wanting to get rid of Quincey. As far as 99% of us were concerned, either Lebda, Lilja, or Meech had to leave. We all wanted Quincey to stay. So it's not the same situation. Kopecky provides nothing and is absolutely invisible on the ice.

Edited June 20, 2009 by VM1138

[55fan 5,133]

Kopecky is useless. We'd be better off playing with one less player. Don't talk about his "value" because he has none.

EDIT: Eva, I can't recall anyone wanting to get rid of Quincey. As far as 99% of us were concerned, either Lebda, Lilja, or Meech had to leave. We all wanted Quincey to stay. So it's not the same situation. Kopecky provides nothing and is absolutely invisible on the ice.

I beg to differ. Koko is adept at filling a roster spot so that a young inexperienced forward can gain valuable ice time in GR before being called up to fill Koko's spot when he has a season-ending injury.