Longshot but is it possible Penguins could match what Oilers

[Jiri the man 0]

Got to give the Penguins their due... they made it to the past two finals. There is no reason to believe they won't be a serious threat to return next year.

Somthing happens to some teams after they win the cup.The hunger subsides and they just go through the motions.

I really can't believe that this is posted on LGW board ,hell we know who the best team is for the last 15 years is.

[Snazzy 0]

I doubt Pens even make the playoffs next year. I expect the East to beef up...

Capitals is more likely to become the next dynasty in the east than Pens because they have the best player in the world and better goaltending.

[Esquire 324]

I doubt Pens even make the playoffs next year. I expect the East to beef up...

Capitals is more likely to become the next dynasty in the east than Pens because they have the best player in the world and better goaltending.

I see what you did there.

[ltgator333 3]

Certainly this is a hockey forum and we're all entitled to discuss hockey, but out of respect, you might want to wait a bit before you post this kind of content on a fan forum for a team you just beat in game 7 of the SC finals.

We lost, you won. It's over, and congratulations on your title. But save this for somewhere else, and someone who cares, because putting it here is a little more than slightly antagonistic, some might even suggest a deliberate salt in the wounds gesture.

I didn't come kick the bricks out of your igloo and take a blow torch to it, touting about Detroit's future dynasty potential after the Red Wings beat the Penguins last year. So, please, stop yanking our feathers out and poking us with a stick.

This is exactly how I'm taking it. I do not understand why you Pens fans are even here, last I knew we're not Penguin fans around here, especially lately. Don't you people understand the entire league, let alone RW fans get sick enough as it is of having your team shoved down our throats every time we see an NHL paid commercial on TV? You won, go celebrate on your own board, thank you for your support.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

or Islanders did as far as a dynasty is concerned. The more I look at this Pens team I think we know that the 4 key pieces are Crosby, Malkin, Staal and Fleury. If we can keep these 4 and mix in some talent at the wings come playoff time I think we will be OK. I think we will keep a role player like Talbot for certain but assume guys such as Guerin and Hall Hill are gone. The youth is the key with this team. Not saying it's probable but I do think it's possible they repeat what Islanders did in early 80s and what Oilers did in mid to late late 80's.

No. The Penguins beat the Wings because they were more hungry, not because they were more talented or a better collection of players. Now the Pens deserved to win this cup, no question in my mind. You guys played better than we did, hands down. It's too bad Hossa was a no show, because that 7.45 million dollars could've bought us a few goals in the finals and the Wings would've been champs again Or hey, maybe if Datsyuk wasn't injured in two places, Lidstrom didn't have his nutsack stapled shut or Rafalski didn't have a herniated disk in his back we would've been good.

Also, Lidstrom's nutsack was stapled shut.

Again, it bears repeating here- I'm not trying to devalue your win- you got the cup, you earned the cup, enjoy eating and drinking stuff from it*.

But the Penguins do not have the depth or quality of talent those teams did. Both teams had superstars at every position and were loaded to the gills with impact players. The Pens just can't do something like that in the salary cap world, especially with Crosby and Malkin earning a third of the maximum cap value.

The Yzerman Red Wings that won 3 cups in 6 years were the closest thing the NHL's seen to a dynasty since the Oilers.

The league's too competitive and too large to haul in 4 cups in 5 years at this point. (assuming you guys don't suddenly draft a bunch of superstars in the next 4 years )

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Why ask the question here as opposed to Pens forum? Because I know I'll get a more objective and thougtful response as opposed to a biased response from the majoirty of Pens fans. And for some of the earlier posts in this thread I had no intention of rubbing salt in wounds. I know it was a hard fought series and I basically see Penguins/Redwings as same as Cowboys/49ers of early 90s in the sense each year you never knew which team was going to take it as the teams were that closely matched. I don't think it is out of real of possibility that either Wings or Pens could each win the Cup in 2010 and 2011 which would mean either 3 in a row for Pens or 3 out of 4 for Wings barring any major changes to either team.

Hey man- stick around. I wish we had two or three regular posters from all 29 other teams. You'll catch some flack, so here's a few tips:

--> Get a signature and put one or two Red Wings in it. Add Pens too, but pick some Wings you like (Lidstrom and Zetterberg are a great choice- you know how good Crosby is and those two completely shut him down two years in a row, so you can't argue you wouldn't want them on your team).

--> Contribute to lots of different threads, give some props to the home team when they deserve it.

--> Feel free to post Penguins threads, but don't make that your bread and butter- it will only breed resentment, especially after we lost the Stanley Cup to you by a single goal. We're all still pretty sad about that around here.

--> Don't listen to the guys who tell you to f*** off and stay in a Pens forum. We have plenty of well liked fans from other teams here (ok, I guess that's only if you count Duck Guy as multiple people).

[Glubki 17]

This is exactly how I'm taking it. I do not understand why you Pens fans are even here, last I knew we're not Penguin fans around here, especially lately. Don't you people understand the entire league, let alone RW fans get sick enough as it is of having your team shoved down our throats every time we see an NHL paid commercial on TV? You won, go celebrate on your own board, thank you for your support.

LGW's General Posting Etiquette - Section I - Point #3....

� Members are not allowed to dicate vocally whether or not fans of an opposing team should post here. Members that attempt to discourage fans from opposing teams from posting here will have their Hockey Discussion posting privileges suspended.

Lighten up people he is just looking for some insight from the opposition and what better group of people to ask than your rivals and closest thing to a dynasty in 20 years...

[ltgator333 3]

Why ask the question here as opposed to Pens forum? Because I know I'll get a more objective and thougtful response as opposed to a biased response from the majoirty of Pens fans.

Well great go ask Leafs fans. Seriously.

[IceMunkee 15]

Why ask the question here as opposed to Pens forum? Because I know I'll get a more objective and thougtful response as opposed to a biased response from the majoirty of Pens fans. And for some of the earlier posts in this thread I had no intention of rubbing salt in wounds. I know it was a hard fought series and I basically see Penguins/Redwings as same as Cowboys/49ers of early 90s in the sense each year you never knew which team was going to take it as the teams were that closely matched. I don't think it is out of real of possibility that either Wings or Pens could each win the Cup in 2010 and 2011 which would mean either 3 in a row for Pens or 3 out of 4 for Wings barring any major changes to either team.

Probably to start a good threa. Since all we have lately are "trade this guy for that guy" and "Hossa Sucks" threads. The pens fan sees that there are some smart wings fans and thought he would get an outside view.

[RedFX 48]

I think both talent-wise and financial-wise, both Wings and Pens are built for a few more years at the top. Really, I don't see another team right now that can provide a real challenge to Pittsburgh in the east. Washington has talent but no depth. Boston looks promising, but they're still a piece or two away. Same with Philadelphia.

In the West, it looks like a tougher road. Chicago is getting better every year, and in a couple years could be a serious threat. San Jose has disappeared during playoff time, but much like Shanny was in 96-97, they might be one player away from finally getting over that hump (Heatley?). And while they look to be facing a brutal battle with the Cap this offseason, never count out Anaheim. They have a good mix of young up-and-coming stars and veteran leadership. So while the Wings are built to last at the top, they have a much tougher road to get there year after year.

[egroen 384]

I am actually wondering if the Bruins are becoming The Sharks of the East... awesome regular season and picked by many to go the whole way, but never get out of the first couple rounds. They were the team I did NOT want coming out of the East this year.

[RedFX 48]

I am actually wondering if the Bruins are becoming The Sharks of the East... awesome regular season and picked by many to go the whole way, but never get out of the first couple rounds. They were the team I did NOT want coming out of the East this year.

This group hasn't been around long enough to tell. This was really the team's breakout season (with the new core), they demolished the 8th seed like they were supposed to and came out of a 3-1 hole before losing in overtime of Game 7. Unlike San Jose, the main pieces of the team (guys like Savard, Ryder, Kessel, Lucic) proved they can step up their level of play in the postseason. I still think they're a piece or two away from toppling Pittsburgh tho.

[WingsChoke 0]

I think the Pens will win the cup for the next couple of years tbh. We just beat a team who pound for pound is 10x better than us. Minus our 3 centers and gonch. It's funny how people say the Pens r a 2 trick pony...but the 2 trick pony just defeated an amazing hokcey club. Imagine if we get The Kid and Malk quality wingers...i just dont see how they will be stopped.

[Snazzy 0]

I think the Pens will win the cup for the next couple of years tbh. We just beat a team who pound for pound is 10x better than us. Minus our 3 centers and gonch. It's funny how people say the Pens r a 2 trick pony...but the 2 trick pony just defeated an amazingly injured hockey club. Imagine if we get The Kid and Malk quality wingers...i just dont see how they will be stopped.

Fixed.

Pens are a 2 trick pony, they just got the luck to play the best of 7 against a completely injured Red Wings team. Injuries are part of the game and I am not taking anything away from the Penguins, but Detroit is the better team and, if healthy, would have finished the Pens off in 5 this year. Last year the Pens were a better team and next year they'll be even worse than this year...

Capitals and Bruins will be the teams to beat in the East. Penguins probably won't make the playoffs next year, and if they do, they'll be ejected in round 1.

Some key injuries:

Lidstrom just got staples in his ruptured ball sack - season ending injury.

Ralfi had ruptured disks in his back and had dislocated his shoulder - season ending injury.

Datsyuk bruised bone and charley horses - season ending injury.

Cleary had major pulled groins - another season ending injury.

Holmstrom knee - would not have played if it wasn't the SCFs.

Zetterberg wrist - wouldn't have played it if wasn't the SCFs

Ericsson just had his appendix surgically removed - should probably have rested longer

Lilja - Concussion

Draper - pulled groin

Kops - fractured face

[WingsChoke 0]

That's the best you could do? Really? WAaaaa wWaaaaaa injuries this injuries that! Haha are you serious man? The Caps Bruins and Flyers will never beat the penguins. Sorry. We are becoming a dynasty. Zetterberg Hossa Franzen Fillpula Holmstrom etc etc werent enough? Those guys right there should have been enough to beat us. It's annoying you blame it on injuries. haha what i think it even more hilarious is the Red Wings players are identical to their fans...

Ie: When they beat the pens those 3 games... Babcock said..."no we are healthy, no injuries"

When they lose....Babcock says..." we ran out of gas and had lots of injuries"

Lol....who's a bigger joke... the Red Wings.... or their fans?

[IceMunkee 15]

Fixed.

Pens are a 2 trick pony, they just got the luck to play the best of 7 against a completely injured Red Wings team. Injuries are part of the game and I am not taking anything away from the Penguins, but Detroit is the better team and, if healthy, would have finished the Pens off in 5 this year. Last year the Pens were a better team and next year they'll be even worse than this year...

Capitals and Bruins will be the teams to beat in the East. Penguins probably won't make the playoffs next year, and if they do, they'll be ejected in round 1.

Some key injuries:

Lidstrom just got staples in his ruptured ball sack - season ending injury.

Ralfi had ruptured disks in his back and had dislocated his shoulder - season ending injury.

Datsyuk bruised bone and charley horses - season ending injury.

Cleary had major pulled groins - another season ending injury.

Holmstrom knee - would not have played if it wasn't the SCFs.

Zetterberg wrist - wouldn't have played it if wasn't the SCFs

Ericsson just had his appendix surgically removed - should probably have rested longer

Lilja - Concussion

Draper - pulled groin

Kops - fractured face

That is very interesting. I knew that most of these injuries were there besides Z, Raf, Homer, and I don't remember hearing about Kops. Not that I don't believe you but I would like to look further into it, what is your source? How did they decide that 4 of those were season ending. Considering the season is 8.5 months long including Playoff's would'nt that mean that they would be out for a solid 1/3rd of the year???

[titanium2 867]

Fixed.

Pens are a 2 trick pony, they just got the luck to play the best of 7 against a completely injured Red Wings team. Injuries are part of the game and I am not taking anything away from the Penguins, but Detroit is the better team and, if healthy, would have finished the Pens off in 5 this year. Last year the Pens were a better team and next year they'll be even worse than this year...

Capitals and Bruins will be the teams to beat in the East. Penguins probably won't make the playoffs next year, and if they do, they'll be ejected in round 1.

Some key injuries:

Lidstrom just got staples in his ruptured ball sack - season ending injury.

Ralfi had ruptured disks in his back and had dislocated his shoulder - season ending injury.

Datsyuk bruised bone and charley horses - season ending injury.

Cleary had major pulled groins - another season ending injury.

Holmstrom knee - would not have played if it wasn't the SCFs.

Zetterberg wrist - wouldn't have played it if wasn't the SCFs

Ericsson just had his appendix surgically removed - should probably have rested longer

Lilja - Concussion

Draper - pulled groin

Kops - fractured face

Seriously. The Pens wanted just a little more. Just a little. It helps being the loser from last year. But they got very, very lucky when you look at that injury list. They're not excuses and we don't want to use them as excuses. That doesn't mean they don't impact the game. And in a very close series as this year's finals was, anything would've given one team an edge. Anything.

I know that not many people on this board watch basketball, but this year finals reminded me of the 88 NBA finals between LA and DET. LA barely won in 7, but everyone outside of LA knew that DET was the better team, and DET would prove it the following year.

Edited June 19, 2009 by titanium2

[egroen 384]

Zetterberg Hossa Franzen Fillpula Holmstrom etc etc werent enough? Those guys right there should have been enough to beat us. It's annoying you blame it on injuries. haha what i think it even more hilarious is the Red Wings players are identical to their fans...

I actually have a little more respect for the Penguins than you do, apparently.

No, I do not think Franzen, Hossa, Filppula plus an injured Zetterberg and Holmstrom would be enough to beat the Penguins. Obviously it was not enough.

I have a feeling you have not been a Penguin fan long enough to remember some of the injury-wracked seasons the Pens had.

In 1990, a star-laden Pittsburgh team failed to live up to their potential. Why? Lemieux had a herniated disc.

1993, despite a heroic effort from Lemieux who was recovering from cancer, the Islanders were too much for them in the 2nd round.

Injuries will take a formidable team out of the playoffs alone. It is amazing the Wings got as far as they did, and we are proud of them.

That said, it takes nothing away from the Penguins' Cup, and only a small sampling of guys like me will remember, "Yeah, but the Wings were decimated by injuries by the time the Finals rolled around." So who cares? You really do not have to come here and gloat -- the Wings still had a chance to win, and they simply could not. Credit to the Penguins.

Crosby and Malkin will be injured in the playoffs, and it will lead to an early loss -- that is a fact, and I hope you do not WAAAA-WAAA about it, if you think it is not a legitimate reason.

Take some time and read about some of the dynasties of the past, which I conveniantly listed above and even gave a link for -- if you still think Pittsburgh has what it takes, good for you. I disagree. But in the future, simply try and come in with a more well-educated argument. That's all I ask.

Edited June 19, 2009 by egroen

[WingsChoke 0]

Tbh with you... I was basing my argument on your statements you made before the Finals began. Ie: Our D sucks, the East sucks, We are a two trick pony. My point is merely that you guys didn't think we had a chance to beat you guys. Which leads me to my next point... when we do beat you guys it's because of Detroit injuries. You clearly need educated bud.

[Snazzy 0]

That is very interesting. I knew that most of these injuries were there besides Z, Raf, Homer, and I don't remember hearing about Kops. Not that I don't believe you but I would like to look further into it, what is your source? How did they decide that 4 of those were season ending. Considering the season is 8.5 months long including Playoff's would'nt that mean that they would be out for a solid 1/3rd of the year???

There is a thread about it sourced from mlive or freep (can't remember which). Season ending means season ending in the playoff season, not the regular season.

Lilja might be out more than 1/3 of the year + more.

[UKWING 8]

or Islanders did as far as a dynasty is concerned. The more I look at this Pens team I think we know that the 4 key pieces are Crosby, Malkin, Staal and Fleury. If we can keep these 4 and mix in some talent at the wings come playoff time I think we will be OK. I think we will keep a role player like Talbot for certain but assume guys such as Guerin and Hall Hill are gone. The youth is the key with this team. Not saying it's probable but I do think it's possible they repeat what Islanders did in early 80s and what Oilers did in mid to late late 80's.

i do expect them to consistently make the playoffs and be one of the best teams from the east each year, but i don't think there is any chance of them emulating the oilers or islanders - not in the cap era. they will lose a number of key players this summer and it will be very difficult to replace them. they also won't have the same level of hunger next year.

i don't think this will be their last cup by any means - but winning year after year? no chance.

[Snazzy 0]

Tbh with you... I was basing my argument on your statements you made before the Finals began. Ie: Our D sucks, the East sucks, We are a two trick pony. My point is merely that you guys didn't think we had a chance to beat you guys. Which leads me to my next point... when we do beat you guys it's because of Detroit injuries. You clearly need educated bud.

Please educate us then Mr."WingsChoke". Penguins didn't beat us, Wings injuries beat us. Penguins just very lucky.

[IceMunkee 15]

That's the best you could do? Really? WAaaaa wWaaaaaa injuries this injuries that! Haha are you serious man? The Caps Bruins and Flyers will never beat the penguins. Sorry. We are becoming a dynasty. Zetterberg Hossa Franzen Fillpula Holmstrom etc etc werent enough? Those guys right there should have been enough to beat us. It's annoying you blame it on injuries. haha what i think it even more hilarious is the Red Wings players are identical to their fans...

Ie: When they beat the pens those 3 games... Babcock said..."no we are healthy, no injuries"

When they lose....Babcock says..." we ran out of gas and had lots of injuries"

Lol....who's a bigger joke... the Red Wings.... or their fans?

You have won the biggest tool of the day award. Congrats. First why do you just come in and spout of rude s***. Why can't you just talk hockey. Writing a post like yours then saying the Wings fans are a joke is pretty silly, don't you think.

Second, do you truly believe your Pens are unbeatable? That Boston and Flyers will never beat you? Oh well I guess the drugs are good in Pitt. You are becoming a dynasty? Seriously, the possibilty is there friend but you have to win two more Cups... Really a Dynasty? Dude I get your happy but you probably should not just turn the local sports talk station and listen to the jockey's and the guys that call in to get your opinions. Look at it logically. It may change now but players don't want to go there for some reason. As far as what Babcock says in the interviews, he is the most honest coach out there. You definitly are taking him out of context. Hey your a Pens fan though, the only place where a player can snub the handshake line and get treated like he is a saint. We would have won. The reasons we did not are many and up to the mind. You can blame injuries, piss poor officiating that resulted in atleast 2 goals, you can blame the conspiracy (if you believe in that stuff), you can blame a poor performance in 4,6, and 7 (my favorite) or you could even use all of them equally. No matter what injuries are part of the game and part of the outcome. If Sidney Crosby was injured for 4 of the 7 games and you lost in 7 what would you say?

[Snazzy 0]

If Sidney Crosby was injured for 4 of the 7 games and you lost in 7 what would you say?

He would say nothing because he would be too gutless to join a Red Wings forum... since he would have nothing to gloat about.

This poster says Red Wings players are identical to their fans (which is a compliment, actually). But in retrospect, Penguin players are identical to their fans; gutless cowards.

Edited June 19, 2009 by Snazzy

[Zetts 236]

A dynasty...are you KIDDING? This Penguins team reminds me more of the 2006 Hurricanes than the dynasty Oilers/Islanders. Yes, the Penguins managed to do something back to back years, but this year it really was by "finding a way to win". Impressive, yes, but nothing that comes close to a true dynasty unless they add some big pieces.

Unless lesser players like Talbot develop the skills of Glen Anderson, the Penguins, while they might remain one of the better teams in the league, will NOT be a dynasty.