Longshot but is it possible Penguins could match what Oilers

[IceMunkee 15]

There is a thread about it sourced from mlive or freep (can't remember which). Season ending means season ending in the playoff season, not the regular season.

Lilja might be out more than 1/3 of the year + more.

Thanks man, I will go check it out. I thought for a second we would be missing them alot of the year next year.

Further more. I don't think the Pens are a bad team. They are very good. Bad teams don't make it to the finals. Bad teams make it to the playoff's all of the time, even past the first round but never to the finals. Bad teams fall victim to the bad calls, bad bounces, and pressure. Only good teams make it the finals. Not always the best team but good teams.

[Broken 16 381]

The only thing more stupid than this thread are the Pens fans talking about a dynasty after ONE CUP WIN IN TWENTY YEARS. Seriously, what a bunch of idiots.

[hockeytown9 1]

Tbh with you... I was basing my argument on your statements you made before the Finals began. Ie: Our D sucks, the East sucks, We are a two trick pony. My point is merely that you guys didn't think we had a chance to beat you guys. Which leads me to my next point... when we do beat you guys it's because of Detroit injuries. You clearly need educated bud.

[Echolalia 2,961]

Pittsburgh wins a single championship and all of a sudden "LOOK OUT DYNASTY!!" Anyway, riddle me this Pens fans: what happens if Crosby or Malkin or Staal or Fleury or some other player gets injured at the wrong moment? What happens if player X's elbow grazes a slapshot and a save suddenly turns into a goal against the Pens? What happens if Tavares turns out to be just as good or better than Crosby or Malkin, and decides to take a smaller cap hit to ensure more superstar power and thus a better team? What happens if some other team picks up a late round steal and locks him up cheap and gets 40 goals out of him? What happens if one of your stars has an off year, or even an off game at the wrong time? What happens if that icing that leads to a goal was waved off? What happens if that play was wrongly called an icing and it results in a goal? What happens if your team has to go up against the three hardest EC teams before the Finals?

The point is, there are way too many variables that come into play in an 82+at least 16 game year and any one of them could easily knock a team off the Cup. Having been through plenty of the above situations since Detroit won back in 1997, Wings fans have a good grasp on how much luck (for lack of a better word) comes into play in winning a Cup. This year, whether you want to believe it or not, the Pens had the luxury of versing a Wings team with almost half their core battling serious injuries. Last year the Wings lucked out in that we were able to avoid Calgary, Anaheim, and San Jose in the playoffs, all of which are tough to play against and can really physically wear down a team. In the WCF, it was just a matter of picking off the winner (Dallas), who was already fatigued, and taking advantage of an inexperienced Pens team, while we were all completely healthy. The year before we weren't so lucky, having to go through Calgary, San Jose, and Anaheim before being rubbed out in the WCF (Anaheim had to verse the Wild and Canucks before facing us, btw). I'm a firm believer that it takes more than pure skill to win the Stanley Cup. It also takes a fair share of luck, especially in the modern era. This goes for the 2009 Penguins, the 2008 Red Wings, the 2007 Ducks, the 2006 Hurricanes, etc etc). If you don't see this now, I promise you within the next year or two, you will. At that point I'll just say "welcome to the club".

Anyway, based on how the league is set up now, what with the salary cap, parity, inconsistent reffing/rules, higher skilled players and bigger bodies to create more opportunities for injury, etc etc etc, I wouldn't be surprised if the league never sees a dynasty again, barring unlikely significant reform.

Edited June 19, 2009 by Echolalia

[chuklz 15]

could become.... vs already are. Go suck a lemon.

[Dimaline312000 51]

Whatever Bettman wants Bettman will get. God I hope not. Why can't the Wings do that?.?.

[cirov19 1]

Nah.

[IceMunkee 15]

Pittsburgh wins a single championship and all of a sudden "LOOK OUT DYNASTY!!" Anyway, riddle me this Pens fans: what happens if Crosby or Malkin or Staal or Fleury or some other player gets injured at the wrong moment? What happens if player X's elbow grazes a slapshot and a save suddenly turns into a goal against the Pens? What happens if Tavares turns out to be just as good or better than Crosby or Malkin, and decides to take a smaller cap hit to ensure more superstar power and thus a better team? What happens if some other team picks up a late round steal and locks him up cheap and gets 40 goals out of him? What happens if one of your stars has an off year, or even an off game at the wrong time? What happens if that icing that leads to a goal was waved off? What happens if that play was wrongly called an icing and it results in a goal? What happens if your team has to go up against the three hardest EC teams before the Finals?

The point is, there are way too many variables that come into play in an 82+at least 16 game year and any one of them could easily knock a team off the Cup. Having been through plenty of the above situations since Detroit won back in 1997, Wings fans have a good grasp on how much luck (for lack of a better word) comes into play in winning a Cup. This year, whether you want to believe it or not, the Pens had the luxury of versing a Wings team with almost half their core battling serious injuries. Last year the Wings lucked out in that we were able to avoid Calgary, Anaheim, and San Jose in the playoffs, all of which are tough to play against and can really physically wear down a team. In the WCF, it was just a matter of picking off the winner (Dallas), who was already fatigued, and taking advantage of an inexperienced Pens team, while we were all completely healthy. The year before we weren't so lucky, having to go through Calgary, San Jose, and Anaheim before being rubbed out in the WCF (Anaheim had to verse the Wild and Canucks before facing us, btw). I'm a firm believer that it takes more than pure skill to win the Stanley Cup. It also takes a fair share of luck, especially in the modern era. This goes for the 2009 Penguins, the 2008 Red Wings, the 2007 Ducks, the 2006 Hurricanes, etc etc). If you don't see this now, I promise you within the next year or two, you will. At that point I'll just say "welcome to the club".

Anyway, based on how the league is set up now, what with the salary cap, parity, inconsistent reffing/rules, higher skilled players and bigger bodies to create more opportunities for injury, etc etc etc, I wouldn't be surprised if the league never sees a dynasty again, barring unlikely significant reform.

Very well said!

[RedFX 48]

Malkin? Is that you?

[EuroTwin 240]

Tbh with you... I was basing my argument on your statements you made before the Finals began. Ie: Our D sucks, the East sucks, We are a two trick pony. My point is merely that you guys didn't think we had a chance to beat you guys. Which leads me to my next point... when we do beat you guys it's because of Detroit injuries. You clearly need educated bud.

(I believe someone asked for a laughing Colbert .gif?)

Ohhhhh the delicious taste of irony in the morning.

[irishtemper14+25 11]

Why do I feel like before the pens won it this year, whenever a wings fan asked if they won it this year would that make Detroit a dynasty. And I remember on HF all these people talking s*** and saying you can't compare this Detroit dynasty with those of the 80's...now pitt wins one cup and think they are going to win it easily for the next couple years because of FOUR ******* PLAYERS.

f*** it, I don't even like Gretzky so I'm glad the wings aren't like that dynasty...the wings are like the montreal dynasty for like the 20 years that they were. How many more cups will the wings win in the next 8 years? If they pull of 3 (I personally being a homer think it could be 5+ if we get lucky with injuries in playoffs) that would be 7 in 20 years.

Good Season

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Why do I feel like before the pens won it this year, whenever a wings fan asked if they won it this year would that make Detroit a dynasty. And I remember on HF all these people talking s*** and saying you can't compare this Detroit dynasty with those of the 80's...now pitt wins one cup and think they are going to win it easily for the next couple years because of FOUR ******* PLAYERS.

f*** it, I don't even like Gretzky so I'm glad the wings aren't like that dynasty...the wings are like the montreal dynasty for like the 20 years that they were. How many more cups will the wings win in the next 8 years? If they pull of 3 (I personally being a homer think it could be 5+ if we get lucky with injuries in playoffs) that would be 7 in 20 years.

Good Season

See my post in the first page of the thread about other Cup champion/finalists best four players and how they easily could have become dynasties because of them, but look what happened to them after.

[Zetts 236]

You know what still makes me laugh? The Penguins have had ridiculously high draft picks, and they've still screwed it up. (Except for obviously Crosby and Malkin, but heck I could have drafted them.)

In 2003 they passed over Eric Staal for Fleury.

In 2006 they passed over Toews for Jordan Staal.

I mean, I know drafting can be difficult, but usually with picks that high (those were #1 and #2 picks), teams can get it right. Fleury and J. Staal are good players, but would ANYONE take them over those other two?

Their front office has made some good decisions too, but with stupidity like that...?

*Edit: Shero was there for 2006, not 2003, but I don't recall ever hearing about a complete overhaul of their scouting staff, so I'm guessing it's been similar throughout.

Edited June 19, 2009 by Zetts

[LeftWinger 4,953]

or Islanders did as far as a dynasty is concerned. The more I look at this Pens team I think we know that the 4 key pieces are Crosby, Malkin, Staal and Fleury. If we can keep these 4 and mix in some talent at the wings come playoff time I think we will be OK. I think we will keep a role player like Talbot for certain but assume guys such as Guerin and Hall Hill are gone. The youth is the key with this team. Not saying it's probable but I do think it's possible they repeat what Islanders did in early 80s and what Oilers did in mid to late late 80's.

Possible? POSSIBLE? Haven't we all been told already by you guys that the Penguins are going to win every Cup from 2009 to the end of times? My God! They have Master Crysby, Malkin, Staal, Fleury, Scuderi (oops, only til July), etc... They are the only team to beat Detroit at home in a game 7! (except of course for Toronto and San Jose (most recently).) They ***** slapped us by beating us by one goal in game 7! They have the NHL in their back pocket (proven by NOT suspending Malkin, thus giving Pitt the BEST chance to win(even though the rule is cut and dry and he did try to send a message.)

This team is never going to lose again! Oh yeah, forgot that we were also told by a pens fan that if they had the likes of Franzen, Lidstrom, Hossa, etc... on their team, they could've have gone undefested the entire season! Wow!

Dude, GTFO! Your team was handed the Cup by the dabbling of the NHL. If Malkin doesn't play game 3, Detroit goes up 3-0 and we'd be talking about the chances of a three-peat. Face it, Crysby choked worse than Hossa in the finals. Bettman allowed Malkin to play in a game he shouldn't have, where he had the primary assist on ALL three goals. That fact alone taints your Cup. IF the roles were reversed and lets say our guy didn't get suspended, oh lord, the controversy!

You and your fans are the ONLY ones thinking you could repeat the Islanders feat of four in a row. The 1997 and 98 and 2002 Wings were 1000 times better than your young core, yet he 90's Wings couldn't win more than 2 and the 02 Wings couldn't even repeat. Get a life, get a clue and get real. Often people complain to us because wear the rose color glasses, well look in the mirror and give me back my glasses!

Edited June 19, 2009 by LeftWinger

[Motown4013 350]

Its ONE Cup...lets not get caught for speeding! This is outright laughable

[Rick 42]

Possible? POSSIBLE? Haven't we all been told already by you guys that the Penguins are going to win every Cup from 2009 to the end of times? My God! They have Master Crysby, Malkin, Staal, Fleury, Scuderi (oops, only til July), etc... They are the only team to beat Detroit at home in a game 7! (except of course for Toronto and San Jose (most recently).) They ***** slapped us by beating us by one goal in game 7! They have the NHL in their back pocket (proven by NOT suspending Malkin, thus giving Pitt the BEST chance to win(even though the rule is cut and dry and he did try to send a message.)

This team is never going to lose again! Oh yeah, forgot that we were also told by a pens fan that if they had the likes of Franzen, Lidstrom, Hossa, etc... on their team, they could've have gone undefested the entire season! Wow!

Dude, GTFO! Your team was handed the Cup by the dabbling of the NHL. If Malkin doesn't play game 3, Detroit goes up 3-0 and we'd be talking about the chances of a three-peat. Face it, Crysby choked worse than Hossa in the finals. Bettman allowed Malkin to play in a game he shouldn't have, where he had the primary assist on ALL three goals. That fact alone taints your Cup. IF the roles were reversed and lets say our guy didn't get suspended, oh lord, the controversy!

You and your fans are the ONLY ones thinking you could repeat the Islanders feat of four in a row. The 1997 and 98 and 2002 Wings were 1000 times better than your young core, yet he 90's Wings couldn't win more than 2 and the 02 Wings couldn't even repeat. Get a life, get a clue and get real. Often people complain to us because wear the rose color glasses, well look in the mirror and give me back my glasses!

Don't forget the misconduct that wasn't called since malkin didn't have his jersey tied down. I remember Hossa being suspended for that during the regular season.

[Snazzy 0]

Dude, GTFO! Your team was handed the Cup by the dabbling of the NHL. If Malkin doesn't play game 3, Detroit goes up 3-0 and we'd be talking about the chances of a three-peat. Face it, Crysby choked worse than Hossa in the finals. Bettman allowed Malkin to play in a game he shouldn't have, where he had the primary assist on ALL three goals. That fact alone taints your Cup. IF the roles were reversed and lets say our guy didn't get suspended, oh lord, the controversy!

How quick these Pens fans forget that they were unjustly handed the cup. NHL gave the Penguins a free pass...

I agree, the cup was handed to them just because NHL favored Penguins on (what should have been) a cut and dry suspension. Penguins didn't earn the cup.

[SiLkK19 67]

Yes, the penguins will win MANY cups in the following years.

Edited June 19, 2009 by SiLkK19

[LeftWinger 4,953]

How quick these Pens fans forget that they were unjustly handed the cup. NHL gave the Penguins a free pass...

I agree, the cup was handed to them just because NHL favored Penguins on (what should have been) a cut and dry suspension. Penguins didn't earn the cup.

My point being, if the Wings went up 3-0, then they probably don't get passed game 5. Sure the Pens earned the other voctories the got, the bounces weren't going our way after games 1 & 2, Players, other than Crysby actually played with heart and desire (Scuderi, Talbot, Fleury, Orpik, Kennedy.) The injuries were too much to overcome, yet we still only lost by one goal in game 7. That doesn't make Pit ANY better than Detroit, if anything, Detroit is still the better team when 100% healthy. I commend Pits defense (although Scuderi will be gone the July) but in the end, Pit was given every chance to win by the NHL (I don't mean 100 powerplays either) and they were luckier, healthwise and crossbar/post-wise...

You got to be lucky to be good, and good to be lucky, but this OP needs to come down off the pedastal. Comparing this team to the Islanders and Oilers? I wouldn't even compare this team to the 91 and 92 Penguins who had REAL superstars. Not crying women...

Anybody and their brother would take a Mario and Jagr at 21 over Cindy Crysby and Beano Malkin EVER...

Add to that Kevin Stevens, Mark Recchi, Paul Coffey and Larry Murphey and the 2009 Penguins look like the NanTucket Ice Roaches...

[hockeytown9 1]

Malkin? Is that you?

Huh? I was laughing at what our friend from Pittsburgh said.

Edited June 19, 2009 by hockeytown9

[Outsider 42]

Without reading through every post in this thread:

No. Just No.

Jebus....the Pens needed every conceivable lucky break going for them, coupled with every single BAD break going against their opponent, along with a generous sprinkling of questionable Officiating going their way, in order to BARELY SQUEAK BY a Team DECIMATED by injuries.

I'm betting the original poster isn't even old enough to have watched either the Oil OR the Isles during the height of their Dynasty years.

If the OP HAD seen either Team, there's no way in Hell this comparison is made between a Team that had to get LUCKY in order to win the Cup this year, and two Teams who used to skate the ice like marauding Huns every night, leaving devastation and subjugation in their wake.

Again:

No. Just No. A THOUSAND TIMES, NO.

[MsRedWingFan 0]

or Islanders did as far as a dynasty is concerned. The more I look at this Pens team I think we know that the 4 key pieces are Crosby, Malkin, Staal and Fleury. If we can keep these 4 and mix in some talent at the wings come playoff time I think we will be OK. I think we will keep a role player like Talbot for certain but assume guys such as Guerin and Hall Hill are gone. The youth is the key with this team. Not saying it's probable but I do think it's possible they repeat what Islanders did in early 80s and what Oilers did in mid to late late 80's.

since when is this a Pen's forum? whats with this we stuff

with that being said I certainly don't think they are a dynasty nor will the be one any time soon. I doubt they'll be able to keep a lot of their players with the cap being what it is. but you can dream on all you want its just not realistic

[MsRedWingFan 0]

Without reading through every post in this thread:

No. Just No.

Jebus....the Pens needed every conceivable lucky break going for them, coupled with every single BAD break going against their opponent, along with a generous sprinkling of questionable Officiating going their way, in order to BARELY SQUEAK BY a Team DECIMATED by injuries.

I'm betting the original poster isn't even old enough to have watched either the Oil OR the Isles during the height of their Dynasty years.

If the OP HAD seen either Team, there's no way in Hell this comparison is made between a Team that had to get LUCKY in order to win the Cup this year, and two Teams who used to skate the ice like marauding Huns every night, leaving devastation and subjugation in their wake.

Again:

No. Just No. A THOUSAND TIMES, NO.

[cupcrazy 13]

I do think it's possible they repeat what Islanders did in early 80s and what Oilers did in mid to late late 80's.

Never happen,this team has won ONE cup,and only got it by ONE goal. To compare this years Pens team to the Oilers,or Islanders of the past is an insult to the two greatest teams of all time.Poeple wanted to compare the 2002 Wings team to the Oilers,but even that team would have fallen short.

Edited June 20, 2009 by cupcrazy

[MsRedWingFan 0]

Why do I feel like before the pens won it this year, whenever a wings fan asked if they won it this year would that make Detroit a dynasty. And I remember on HF all these people talking s*** and saying you can't compare this Detroit dynasty with those of the 80's...now pitt wins one cup and think they are going to win it easily for the next couple years because of FOUR ******* PLAYERS.

f*** it, I don't even like Gretzky so I'm glad the wings aren't like that dynasty...the wings are like the montreal dynasty for like the 20 years that they were. How many more cups will the wings win in the next 8 years? If they pull of 3 (I personally being a homer think it could be 5+ if we get lucky with injuries in playoffs) that would be 7 in 20 years.

Good Season

anyone know off hand how many teams were in the league when Montreal won their string of cups?