'Lack of Urgency' vs 'Couldn't Give Anymore'

[C-TownWing 0]

Generally speaking, it annoys the crap out of me the way people play the effort card. If we're not doing well, it's always because we're not trying hard enough. If we are, it's because we finally decided to try. It's a ridiculous oversimplification that completely writes off luck, injuries, strategy, the other team on the ice and a bunch of other stuff.

The OP though was very balanced and made good points both ways. My best guess is that it's just our composure and always staying on an even keel. We never get down on ourselves, but the flip side is that we never appear to be "up" either, which might be perceived as lack of effort.

When I'm judging effort, I try to look for the "effort plays." Puck battles, taking hits, blocking shots, etc. and I felt like we were excellent in most of these areas throughout the playoffs. Maybe except for shot blocking.

[betterREDthandead 58]

Not really though. Lang was lazy and sucked when Yzerman was captain. Was that Yzerman's fault?

It would have been Yzerman's fault if the whole team was lazy and sucked, which is what you claimed originally without referring to any one player.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Fixed, because there's not a sport where this doesn't happen.

How does that make my argument look any worse? In fact, it stengthens it, because you're making it sound like the Wings only looked good when the other team wasn't trying.

Ten days after the fact, it continues to embarrass me that there are Wings "fans" questioning their effort. NICKLAS LIDSTROM'S ******* BALLS WERE SLICED OPEN.

Yes, but there's other guys who weren't hurt that didn't play up to par. Lidstrom is just one guy.

Why can't everyone play every shift like Darren Helm does? It's not anything unrealistic, it's just called playing hard on every shift with determination.

Hopefully more grit players will address that.

[Lidstrom for Norris 0]

TBH, the more I think about it, the more I realize how lucky Pittsburgh got. Don't get me wrong, the Pens wanted it more because they lost last year and they should celebrate and cherish their cup. It's just that when looking back I think the Wings skill and talent injured or not was equivalent to the Pens desire to win. That series was ridiculously close. The Pens got the edge in terms of luck of health and injuries to the other team.

You said it all. Someone give this quote to the free press

[thedisappearer 291]

It would have been Yzerman's fault if the whole team was lazy and sucked, which is what you claimed originally without referring to any one player.

I am sorry I thought you were reasonably intelligent enough to realize I was not calling out every single player on the team, just certain members. I don't really want to call out any specific player because it does no good, but I will say that Ozzie, Z, Lids, Flip, and Helm sure liked like they were going 110%. And that doesn't mean every unnamed player was, in my opinion, lazy or unmotivated.

[MC5Rock 0]

I know you can't think this way because there's only one chance bla bla bla, but play the Finals over again with a healthy Wings team and lets see what happens. Or, Pitts can play without Malkin or Crosby for seven games. Pittsburg (fans anyway) say they beat "the best team". Well no, they didn't. They beat the best team minus some key players.......that right there changed the dynamic. Other players added more minutes, lines were juggled. Of course they got tired.....even though they told the press they were fine they knew what a missing Datsyuk meant. By the time game 7 rolled around they were running on fumes. Huge mistakes were made in that game and I don't think it had anything to do with "not wanting it enough" or that there was no sense of urgency. They had been going uphill the entire way and they just couldn't make it up to the very top. The fact they almost did is amazing.

[titanium2 867]

Why can't everyone play every shift like Darren Helm does? It's not anything unrealistic, it's just called playing hard on every shift with determination.

To be fair, Darren Helm played on average 12 and a half minutes a game in the playoffs. He admitted earlier in the regular season how in GR he had to pace himself because there he got the 19-20 minutes or whatever but in DET he was allowed to go balls to the wall averaging 9-12.

Helm and Sammy really made that third line go. Only averaging 12-15 minutes a game allows to give more energy as opposed to the Zetterbergs and Datsyuks who have to make sure they play at a high level for 20 minutes.

Now, if you want to question Hudler, then I'd give you that one a little. He's just too slow and that Brown hit probably made him afraid of contact. He won't admit it, but it's just the typical biological fight or flight response. After a traumatic hit where you see your own blood chances are you're more likely to flight the next time contact comes.

There's a reason why Babs yells at Hudler a lot. He's had a problem with effort and attitude ever since GR, but has made improvements. Whether or not those improvements are good enough to solidify a roster spot for him is up for debate. At the same time, I don't see how Leino is an improvement over Hudler. He has the same determination problems. The only difference important to the playoffs is that Leino plays down low around the boards more often and protects the puck better when he isn't diving.

Edited June 22, 2009 by titanium2

[WingsFanInPensCountry 0]

So do the Wings need to load up the 3 'n' 4 with some guys that can bang, or can they win another cup with this lineup, hoping to stay healthy all the way to the finals? i still say we need someone like Neil, Laps, Grier etc. What do you all think?

IMHO we need to have somebody to stand up to the bullies (ie. Talbot). The fact that no one did him in after what he pulled was the real lack of effort.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

How does that make my argument look any worse? In fact, it stengthens it, because you're making it sound like the Wings only looked good when the other team wasn't trying.

"Sitting back and playing maximum defense" ≠ "not trying." This is something that happens in virtually any close hockey game.

[Stiffy 0]

Sorry, but I can't put on the homer glasses for this one. The injuries were devastating and those who played with these injuries are worthy of respect, but not every player was injured and we had plenty of no shows when it counted. Coaching was in my opinion the decisive factor. We were out coached. We had a two game lead and blew it. We won game 5 with plenty of energy then failed to bury the hatchet. We had a coach saying (in the press) game 7 was just another game. Half glass full - sure, I guess you can find something. Glass half empty, they failed when they had numerous chances. They did not get it done. That is all I will remember. Does taking a hard line make me less a fan? I expect more from this team.

[Cruiser008 37]

The way I see it, many of the Wings certainly left it all on the ice, but there were definitely a couple IMO that didn't have the consistency we saw from pretty much the WHOLE team last year.

- Samuelsson

- Hudler

- Hossa

- Holmstrom

We were supposed to have the deepest set of forwards in the league but these 4 guys (despite being relatively healthy) disappeared in the finals.

And on D with Lidstrom and Rafalski at ~70% Kronwall had the chance to prove that he was not just a bigger hitter, but an elite D-men in this league. Instead he took some awful and untimely penalties in the finals and generally had a subpar playoffs.

[Cruiser008 37]

In interesting stat that points to a lack of urgency during these playoffs; out of the 23 playoff games Detroit gave up the first goal 12 times. Amazingly they came back in 5 of those games, but playing from behind is a tough way to win hockey games, and you can only go to the well so often.