Why are pens fans mad?

[MadMan Mark 0]

I just took the time to get caught up on the thread. . .

Just my 2 cents, but Pens SHOULD make the playoffs, but I do not see them back in the Finals. IMO, the Pens have holes to fill and not enough money to fill them. In addition, when Crosby, Malkin, and MAF contracts are up, look for one of them to be moved. I'm guessing MAF because I don't feel he is that good. There just isn't enough money to go around especially when Crosby and Malkin's cap hits are $8M+/yr. MAF played average and was blessed with a couple of posts in Games 6 and 7.

Wings, on the other hand, are essentially the same team that went to WCF in 07 and Cup Finals in 08 and 09. They are getting incredible contributions from young players and have the core locked in for the rest of their careers. Lidstrom's cap hit is gone after next year, so is Holmstrom and Maltby's. Right there is $10+M.

I expect the Wings to make the Finals next year. I don't see the Pens returning for quite a while. . . maybe in the last year of Crosby and Malkin's current contracts.

Lidstrom hoists the Cup in June 2010 and calls it a career.

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

2008-2002 4 non-cup years

2002 - 1998 3 non-cup years

That's a bit less than the 17 Pittsburgh has

Oh but they are comprable! LMFAO

I wasn't referring to Cup-less seasons; I was referring to Pittsburgh's most recent "dynasty" of not making the playoffs!

[Snazzy 0]

Hey it's cool -- some Pens fans feel Malkin is a better player as well. I haven't really decided yet, myself. They both bring different things to the team and I am fine with either doing well. I don't really argue with Ovechkin being the league MVP though, because he carries the Caps moreso than Crosby or Malkin does the Penguins. I actually agree that while there is more animosity between Wings/Pens, it isn't nearly the same level of rivalry that you guys have with the Ducks, or we have with the Flyers and Capitals. I think the Cup finals are also a pretty special thing to just be a part of so the competition just feels different than at a conference or division level.

Anyway yeah I think the protectiveness has a lot to do with the fact that he gets so much attention, both good and bad. A lot of pressure has been put on Crosby from Pittsburgh's standpoint as far as what he's been expected to do for the club in a way that Malkin hasn't, so I guess that makes fans want to be protective of him from the outside. But I also think there's an automatic response programmed into our Penguin minds when someone brings up whether or not Malkin or Ovechkin is better because quite often, it's prefaced with the phrase "I hate Crosby!" or "Crosby sucks!" (I mean, I guess a player that is potentially better makes another one "suck"? ) So that's possibly another reason why we get jumpy about it. If someone like yourself is just offering an objective opinion and just talking strictly hockey rather than trash talking, I suppose people should just learn that they aren't out to "get Crosby" should not take it so personally.

I would like to see Malkin get more recognition for his game, but he actually doesn't care much for the spotlight and prefers being under the radar. The only problem is he's doing an awful lot in his game to make that less likely. :-)

Malkin looks like he is doing a lot in his game until he's matched up against a healthy Datsyuk, then he looks like an 8 million dollar deer caught in the headlights.

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

Good opening post. Although the "16 and Wings fan my whole life" had me feeling kind of old since I was in high school when Stevie Y was drafted, and today he is a HOFer.

Pens fans have alot of bandwagoners because of Crosby. Wings fans have alot of bandwagoners because of being a winning team for so long. Goes with the territory. Face to face I doubt there is more in common than different amongst the fans of both teams.

Pens fans ought to relish in their Cup win for the summer, then worry about defending it next year. Wings fans ought to not worry so much about what Pens fans do or don't do.

I would love to see both teams in a rubber match next year, but I think a few other teams will have something to say about that...

[Theophany 110]

Your boy Fluery had a .908 save % and a 2.61 GAA in the playoffs. He was the 8th best goalie in the playoffs just above Khabibulin. I hope you aren't banking on him as part of this solid base.

If the Pens make the playoffs, I don't see them going far. They have 2 superstars and a mediocre goalie.

I expect Boston to come out of the East. Thy are a much deeper team that the Pens and have much better goaltending.

Get it right: Fleury isn't "my boy". I'm a Wings fan, I just like using logic to back up my thoughts.

8th best out of 30 goalies? Yeah, I'd take that.

All said, he's solid during the regular season; solid enough to take them to the playoffs (or keep them in it so that Crosby and Malkin can take them to the playoffs).

He was ahead of goalies such as Kiprusoff, Biron, Giguere, Theodore, Osgood, etc in GAA this season. He was ahead of the same list in Sv% in the regular season.

Say what you want, but all of those 'tenders made the playoffs. Maybe not as the starters in the case of Giggy and Theodore, but he's not "mediocre" as you so blithely reported.

Yes, he's 8th on a team that has very little defense and the best offensive presence in the entire playoffs (by numbers). Tim Thomas was #1 behind a team that was very strong defensively.

Oh s***, you mean this is a team sport?

Those Pens who had the base of a "mediocre" 'tender and two stars just took out our boys. They may make moves to replace people, but with how Shero has been handling the team, do you really have doubts that the Pens will make the playoffs?

I of course don't think they'll be a #1 out of the East; Boston is too strong to allow that. But they'll be in the playoffs for the East. I have no doubt of that. You're stupid to think that they don't have a shot and that they won't be a challenge for any team in the East.

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

Get it right: Fleury isn't "my boy". I'm a Wings fan, I just like using logic to back up my thoughts.

Yup Fleury looked very beatable up until games 6&7. Got nothing against the kid, just figured the Wings could and should take him. But got to give him credit for stepping up in games 6 and 7 and shutting the door. Did the Wings offense take their best shots? No surely not, but playing good enough to win in a game 7 in an arena where you are normally a sieve deserves some respect, even from Wings fans....

[HadThomasVokounOnFortSt 878]

baby...

[Snazzy 0]

Those Pens who had the base of a "mediocre" 'tender and two stars just took out our injured boys.

Fixed.

Fluery and the Penguins only saw 60% of what Red Wings are capable of. Not making excuses, it's just a fact. Fluery getting lucky against an injured team doesn't make him more savvy. I stand behind my stance, Fluery is over paid for what he is. Penguins "top" 3 players take up nearly half of their cap... I don't expect Penguins to go far in the playoffs. The east is beefing up, Penguins have to beef down due to money issues.

[MC5Rock 0]

Lots of good answers in the thread already but I'll add my two cents. This is a definite generalization but IMO Penquin fans are just falling in line with the rest of the fans from Anywhere USA who can't stand a winner. I think (again, in general) hockey fans across the country loved seeing Yzerman win the Cup in 97, and again in 98 because of Vladdy, but that was our limit. The catcalls started with the 2002 Cup, because of course we "bought" it, more that won it, with our high-priced players. That is a bunch of baloney, but you get the picture. Winning teams get treated like crap all the time. How many times do you hear someone say "I hate the Yankees!" If you ask them why, the answer is usually "because they win ALL the time!!" Well boo hoo. It's much harder to win all the time than to just win it once.

I think since Pittsburgh lost to us last year and we had won it "so many times" before, they felt it was THEIR turn this year, as if life works that way. Hello.

I get the feeling they are still jealous though.......even after winning they still feel the need to post things on any site that has Detroit's name on it.

As for us, IMO we are not "mad" about losing the Cup because A) we've won it before and can relax because we won't go to our graves empty-handed and B) we learned there are more important things in life, like........life. Vladdy's accident taught us that. We may never win the Cup again, which would not be fun (for us or the players) but it pales in comparison to losing someone forever.

Anyhoo, that's my two cents.

[MC5Rock 0]

Fluery and the Penguins only saw 60% of what Red Wings are capable of.

This is so true. I did see some Penquin fans (at another site) question Wings fans as to why we weren't happy with the way the Wings played. They thought the Wings were awesome. Wow, what would they have thought had the Wings been healthy ?????? Edited June 24, 2009 by MC5Rock

[Snazzy 0]

This is so true. I did see some Penquin fans (at another site) question Wings fans as to why we weren't happy with the way the Wings played. They thought the Wings were awesome. Wow, what would they have thought had the Wings been healthy ??????

Exactly, and had the Wings been at 60.999% healthy instead of 60% healthy, it may have been just enough to win since it was such a tight series.

Not taking away from anything from the pens, but it's all relative to the Fluery debaters.

[thegreat66 19]

Fixed.

Fluery and the Penguins only saw 60% of what Red Wings are capable of. Not making excuses, it's just a fact. Fluery getting lucky against an injured team doesn't make him more savvy. I stand behind my stance, Fluery is over paid for what he is. Penguins "top" 3 players take up nearly half of their cap... I don't expect Penguins to go far in the playoffs. The east is beefing up, Penguins have to beef down due to money issues.

I actually agree with Snazzy that Fleury is overpaid based upon his performance. I think Fleury is good, just not elite at least not yet. Though I wouldn't consider Osgood elite either and he has a room full of Cups so who knows. Bottom line is I do wish Fleury was making a bit less to spend on other players.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Excuses, excuses. I understand the injuries hurt us, but the Wings lost. Injuries have no impact on scoring more then 2 goals in 2 games. If our offence can beat that "mediocre" goalie more then 2 times, in 2 games, we win the Cup. That's what it comes down too, man, it really hasnt been until lately that I see how whiney some Wings fans can be.(Obviously not everyone)

Plus, I really dont believe Fluery is some unbelievable goalie, but he's good enough to win a Stanley Cup, just like Ozzie in the years he's won.

Edited June 24, 2009 by Detroit # 1 Fan

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Excuses, excuses. I understand the injuries hurt us, but the Wings lost. Injuries have no impact on scoring more then 2 goals in 2 games. If our offence can beat that "mediocre" goalie more then 2 times, in 2 games, we win the Cup. That's what it comes down too, man, it really hasnt been until lately that I see how whiney some Wings fans can be.(Obviously not everyone)

Plus, I really dont believe Fluery is some unbelievable goalie, but he's good enough to win a Stanley Cup, just like Ozzie in the years he's won.

^ This. All of this.

Do injuries play a factor? Without question. Does scheudling play a factor? Sure.

You make your own breaks though an the Wings had 2 chances (with rest) to finish the Penguins off. They blew it. I love my Wings but they have nobody but to blame but themselves. No scheduling, injuries, or any media/Bettman bias that we might scream about towards the Penguins changes the fact that the Wings themselves blew it.

[Snazzy 0]

I actually agree with Snazzy that Fleury is overpaid based upon his performance. I think Fleury is good, just not elite at least not yet. Though I wouldn't consider Osgood elite either and he has a room full of Cups so who knows. Bottom line is I do wish Fleury was making a bit less to spend on other players.

Exactly. I think Fluery is grossly overrated. Ozzie on the other hand is underrated and I do think he'll be in the HOF. Not because he is a Patrick Roy caliber, but because he is a Osgood system caliber goalie and has the trophies and wins to prove it. He's had a consistent career for a goalie, and he's a goalie that comes up big when it matters the most, plus he's satisfied playing for a lower salary. It's hard to hate on Osgood unless your team is playing against him...

Will Fluery ever match Osgood's success? It's a possibility, he's young and has a long career ahead of him. But right now, he's overpaid. Maybe by the time his contract is up, he might be closer in talent to his salary ratio.

[Snazzy 0]

Excuses, excuses. I understand the injuries hurt us, but the Wings lost. Injuries have no impact on scoring more then 2 goals in 2 games. If our offence can beat that "mediocre" goalie more then 2 times, in 2 games, we win the Cup. That's what it comes down too, man, it really hasnt been until lately that I see how whiney some Wings fans can be.(Obviously not everyone)

Plus, I really dont believe Fluery is some unbelievable goalie, but he's good enough to win a Stanley Cup, just like Ozzie in the years he's won.

Bulls***. I'd like to see you go out there and play a highly fast and physical game after having your nuts ruptured or have your upper thigh lacerated to drain fluid out. Have you ever had a herniated disk?

You talk big s***, but the fact is until you get your fat ass off your couch and walk to your mailbox, let alone, play NHL hockey with some of these injuries, show some damn respect. The Red Wings deserve all the credit in the world for playing through all the pain and agony, only to come up one goal short to potentially winning their 5th cup in 12 year.

I am ******* proud of this team, you ungrateful piece of s***. And you call yourself a ******* fan? You're ******* Pathetic!

Show some respect to this team! Piss off you poor loser!

NO ******* TEAM IN THE WORLD COULD COMPETE THE WAY THE DETROIT RED WINGS DID WITH ALL THEY WENT THROUGH.

Get the f*** off the boards, you ******* piece of s***! You are not worthy to call yourself a fan. Ungrateful!

[thegreat66 19]

Exactly. I think Fluery is grossly overrated. Ozzie on the other hand is underrated and I do think he'll be in the HOF. Not because he is a Patrick Roy caliber, but because he is a Osgood system caliber goalie and has the trophies and wins to prove it. He's had a consistent career for a goalie, and he's a goalie that comes up big when it matters the most, plus he's satisfied playing for a lower salary. It's hard to hate on Osgood unless your team is playing against him...

Will Fluery ever match Osgood's success? It's a possibility, he's young and has a long career ahead of him. But right now, he's overpaid. Maybe by the time his contract is up, he might be closer in talent to his salary ratio.

I agree completely. Only distinction I would draw is that I consider Fleury overrated but not grossly overrated. In any event, it's hard to argue against what Osgood has accomplished and the money it has cost Wings to retain him. As an opposing fan I will often hear many people talk about how Osgood is only an average goalie etc., etc,, and then you find your team playing againt him with everything on the line and you realize when it counts the most he is generally VERY hard to beat.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Bulls***. I'd like to see you go out there and play a highly fast and physical game after having your nuts ruptured or have your upper thigh lacerated to drain fluid out. Have you ever had a herniated disk?

You talk big s***, but the fact is until you get your fat ass off your couch and walk to your mailbox, let alone, play NHL hockey with some of these injuries, show some damn respect. The Red Wings deserve all the credit in the world for playing through all the pain and agony, only to come up one goal short to potentially winning their 5th cup in 12 year.

I am ******* proud of this team, you ungrateful piece of s***. And you call yourself a ******* fan? You're ******* Pathetic!

Show some respect to this team! Piss off you poor loser!

NO ******* TEAM IN THE WORLD COULD COMPETE THE WAY THE DETROIT RED WINGS DID WITH ALL THEY WENT THROUGH.

Get the f*** off the boards, you ******* piece of s***! You are not worthy to call yourself a fan. Ungrateful!

Take off your homer glasses for 1 second please.

Where did he say or insinuate that he was ungreatful? Where was he being disrespectful to players? Huh?

And regarding the couch statement, you can pretty much apply that to a majority of the members in here who probably haven't played hockey at highly competitive levels because of whatever reasons.

Yes, the Red Wings deserve credit for making it as far as they did. The Penguins also deserve credit for winning the Stanley Cup. The Red Wings had 2 games to finish them off regardless of injuries or scheduling or what not. They didn't.

It's not being ungreatful. He's just recognizing the situation and understanding it is what it is.

[Snazzy 0]

Take off your homer glasses for 1 second please.

Where did he say or insinuate that he was ungreatful? Where was he being disrespectful to players? Huh?

And regarding the couch statement, you can pretty much apply that to a majority of the members in here who probably haven't played hockey at highly competitive levels because of whatever reasons.

Yes, the Red Wings deserve credit for making it as far as they did. The Penguins also deserve credit for winning the Stanley Cup. The Red Wings had 2 games to finish them off regardless of injuries or scheduling or what not. They didn't.

It's not being ungreatful. He's just recognizing the situation and understanding it is what it is.

Again, bulls***. He doesn't recognize the fact that NO NHL team in the would could pull of what Detroit Red Wings accomplished--from injuries--a full line of AHL players playing their first SCF--to more injuries.

A normal human wouldn't even be able to get out of bed with some of these injuries, yet this ******* is expecting the Red Wings to pull off two of the hardest games in the series?, esp when Penguins can play with too many men, or not get suspended when the rules state SUSPENSION! I bet this dips*** couldn't even jerk off with the wrist Zetterberg was playing through, let alone expect Z to carry the puck across the blue line to get a shot off.

Go separate your shoulder, herniate some disks in your back, and see how hard it is to get a quality shot off that can beat any goalie...

Show some respect. Be proud of your team, and show some ******* respect! God, I swear some ******* fans go full-retard!

With the injuries Wings had, they should have been swept, not take it to Game 7 down to the dying seconds... Ungrateful!

Edited June 24, 2009 by Snazzy

[Statts 4]

Bulls***. I'd like to see you go out there and play a highly fast and physical game after having your nuts ruptured or have your upper thigh lacerated to drain fluid out. Have you ever had a herniated disk?

You talk big s***, but the fact is until you get your fat ass off your couch and walk to your mailbox, let alone, play NHL hockey with some of these injuries, show some damn respect. The Red Wings deserve all the credit in the world for playing through all the pain and agony, only to come up one goal short to potentially winning their 5th cup in 12 year.

I am ******* proud of this team, you ungrateful piece of s***. And you call yourself a ******* fan? You're ******* Pathetic!

Show some respect to this team! Piss off you poor loser!

NO ******* TEAM IN THE WORLD COULD COMPETE THE WAY THE DETROIT RED WINGS DID WITH ALL THEY WENT THROUGH.

Get the f*** off the boards, you ******* piece of s***! You are not worthy to call yourself a fan. Ungrateful!

WOW!

Years from now nobody is gonna look back and remember all the injuries the Wings had or how tough of a road they had to travel. The pens won... thats it. Throw around your "ifs" and "buts" all you want, they mean nothing.

And if you want to see a poor loser... look in the mirror.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Again, bulls***. He doesn't recognize the fact that NO NHL team in the would could pull of what Detroit Red Wings accomplished--from injuries--AHL players playing their first playoff games--to more injuries.

How do you know this? Again the Red Wings deserve plenty of credit making it this far, but this is just guesswork and assumptions.

A normal human wouldn't even be able to get out of bed with some of these injuries, yet this ******* is expecting the Red Wings to pull off two of the hardest games in the series?, esp when Penguins can play with too many men, or not get suspended when the rules state SUSPENSION! I bet this dips*** couldn't even jerk off with the wrist Zetterberg was playing through, let alone carry the puck across the blue line to get a shot off.

The suspension would've happend in game 3. No bearing on games 6 and 7. Not a lot of us could probably get out of bed doing this. I think he gets this.

Show some respect. Be proud of your team, and show some ******* respect! God, I swear some ******* fans go full-retard!

You need to show some respect and not call people a**holes when they aren't doing anything to provoke or deserve being called one.

Nobody is full of it. He's just recognizing the sitaution that injuries unfortuantely are part of the playoffs sometimes, and that you make your own breaks or take advantage of things when they are given to you. The Penguins did this. The Red Wings, while it sucked we had so many injuries, did not take advantage of a break having 2 chances to close the series out.

Calm down and stop being so prideful to where it makes you attack others.

[MC5Rock 0]

Exactly, and had the Wings been at 60.999% healthy instead of 60% healthy, it may have been just enough to win since it was such a tight series.

Not taking away from anything from the pens, but it's all relative to the Fluery debaters.

Oooooooh........that .999% is so close !!! Like Kronwall's shot.....it missed by what, a centimeter ?? Oh well ........October is coming up fast

I certainly don't think "poor loser" fits a fan who recognizes injuries DID play a part in the outcome. A "poor loser", IMO, is one who, while berating the team that won fair and square, makes up excuses for his own team, who really had none. The Wings had plenty. There is a reason Datsyuk is on the team, he is a damn good player, no? Ditto for the rest of the players who either missed games or played at half speed. If the Pens had the same injuries and we had beat them, I would have always wondered what the outcome would have been had they been healthy. It's like beating the Yankees.... Derek Jeterless, or Federer winning because Nadal withdrew. Yeah, you win, but with an asterisk. IMO of course.

Edited June 24, 2009 by MC5Rock

[Snazzy 0]

WOW!

Years from now nobody is gonna look back and remember all the injuries the Wings had or how tough of a road they had to travel. The pens won... thats it. Throw around your "ifs" and "buts" all you want, they mean nothing.

And if you want to see a poor loser... look in the mirror.

Poor loser? I said it before the playoffs even started that I didn't expect the Wings to pull off the cup back-2-back. I didn't expect the Wings to beat the Ducks and we did. If anything, I am a happy loser, because we made if much-much further than I predicted (due to Stanley cup hangover and drive), the Wings proved ME wrong! And I am grateful for being wrong.

I'm so ******* proud of this team that I can hardly wait for the 2010 playoffs to start, let alone the regular season...

Sure, nobody will know what the Red Wings endured, but I know what they endured. And they deserve all the respect in the world for it... from their fans. Not assholes who want to wallow in self pity because we lost, but because this team did the impossible.

Hollywood couldn't even make up a fictional story from what the Wings have overcome. I call it Miracle. And I love this team!

Dips*** just proved he's a bandwagon fan. Pathetic!

[LeftWinger 4,961]

The suspension would've happend in game 3. No bearing on games 6 and 7. Not a lot of us could probably get out of bed doing this. I think he gets this.

no offense, but if the suspension would've happened (like it was suposed to until Bettman stepped in) then you're right, there would be no bearing on games 6 & 7, because in all likelyhood games 6 & 7 would've never been played. Without Malkin in game 3, Wings win, go up 3-0 and wrap it up in 5. But, alas, nobody wants to admit that with that ruling Gary Bettman helped Pitts win the Cup. Plain and simple... Doesn't have to be a conspiracy, doesn't have to be fixed, doesn't have to be Al Qaida. Bettman gave Pitt their best chance by recinding the instigator penalty, not suspending him, and allowing him to have assists on three goals in game 3, in turn "helping" Pits win the Cup...

[Snazzy 0]

The suspension would've happend in game 3. No bearing on games 6 and 7. Not a lot of us could probably get out of bed doing this. I think he gets this.

If he was suspended game 3, there wouldn't have been a game 6 or 7. The cheating bastard had a point for every goal in gm3, remember?

I don't care about that.. I'm just saying that Wings not only endured major injuries, but also faced adversity in every aspect of the game and still game up 1mm short of forcing OT in game 7....

If anythings, Penguins should feel like s*** for allowing the series to go game 7 considering all the set backs Detroit was faced with...

I love this team more than anybody. Win or lose, I'm a fan for life. Always have been, always will be. Too bad there's posers on this boards pretending to be true loyal fans.