therock48880 14 Report post Posted June 23, 2009 Not so sure about that- Penguins had incredible firepower- Lemieux in his prime, Jagr breakout season, Stevens, Tochhet, Ron Francis(one of most underrated players in NHL history) Paul Coffee, a much younger Larry Murphy. Have to go with 92 Pens upon reflection. 97 Wings. The 97 Wings had d-men that were so good it was sickening. Lidstrom wasn't even their top d-man that year. People forget how great Konstantinov was before his injury. The guy was a plus 60 one year. The biggest difference between the two teams is that the Wings great players were also very good defensively. I don't think the same can be said for the Pens players. Defense wins cups, not offense. The Pens won this year because of their defensive play. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dominator2005 558 Report post Posted June 23, 2009 Detroit 2002 = Western All-Star 2002 team Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dominator2005 558 Report post Posted June 23, 2009 http://msn.foxsports.com/nhl/story/8582750...162&ATT=142 Detroit 2002 at No. 17 of best team ever... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rick zombo 3,739 Report post Posted June 23, 2009 It depends. Do we factor Bettman and the NHL head office into the equation? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titanium2 867 Report post Posted June 23, 2009 Both Penguins teams were pretty special. The 97 Wings team was probably the best defensively. The 98 Wings team... well, nothing was going to stop them from winning for Vladdy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titanium2 867 Report post Posted June 23, 2009 97 Wings. The 97 Wings had d-men that were so good it was sickening. Lidstrom wasn't even their top d-man that year. People forget how great Konstantinov was before his injury. The guy was a plus 60 one year. The biggest difference between the two teams is that the Wings great players were also very good defensively. I don't think the same can be said for the Pens players. Defense wins cups, not offense. The Pens won this year because of their defensive play. Lidstrom wasn't their top d-man? I don't know. Lidstrom was in his prime back then. It's really hard to say. Nick makes plays that few people notice while Vladdy was a pest with a real edge. You always notice Vladdy. I'm not saying one way or the other, but again, it's really hard to say. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,959 Report post Posted June 23, 2009 Which team is better? Penguins Penguins Penguins Penguins Penguins or Penguins that's really what he wants this thread to be named... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,959 Report post Posted June 23, 2009 OK Lemieux who some still argue greatest player ever and definitely the best of any player on either team. Jagr a phenom. Paull Coffee and Murphy Hall of Famers(Murphy was shadow of himself in 97) Ron Francis- Tochet could score and kick anyone's ass. Kevin Stevens. Guys I'm sorry but to say this wouldn't even be close seems ludicrous to me. Russian 5- I don't care if it was the Russian 20- that 92 team was phenomenal. COFFEY TOCCHET ...are you sure you even know what you're talking about? and Tocchet could not kick Bob Probert's or Joe Kocur's ass, not in 1988 and not in 1992, not even today... this is all Tocchet could do with Probert: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
therock48880 14 Report post Posted June 23, 2009 Lidstrom wasn't their top d-man? I don't know. Lidstrom was in his prime back then. It's really hard to say. Nick makes plays that few people notice while Vladdy was a pest with a real edge. You always notice Vladdy. I'm not saying one way or the other, but again, it's really hard to say. Lidstrom was a plus 11 that year, Vladdy was a plus 38. The previous year Vladdy was a plus 60. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,959 Report post Posted June 23, 2009 Who exemplifies leadership better? THIS? THIS? OR THIS? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,959 Report post Posted June 23, 2009 Guarantee, the 1995-96 Red Wings could beat any of those Pitts teams... BY A LANDSLIDE Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snazzy 0 Report post Posted June 24, 2009 My god, I forgot how freakin bad ass Wings were back in the mid 90's. And still how bad ass they are in the millennium. I do miss that 1997 team... they would destroy anything in their path. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted June 24, 2009 92 Pens vs 97 Wings would be one hell of a series, at the end of the day, I think our defense and physical play would get to the Pens in the end. It'd be a grind though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegreat66 19 Report post Posted June 24, 2009 Who exemplifies leadership better? THIS? THIS? OR THIS? Cmon Lefty- you have to be able to do better than that. I know Crosby didn't do much against Wings but he put Pens on his back in Caps series when things looked awfully grim and Ovechkin was punching his ticket to Conference finals. Stanley Cup is more than just the final round. Crosby did a lot to get his team another shot at Detroit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,959 Report post Posted June 24, 2009 Cmon Lefty- you have to be able to do better than that. I know Crosby didn't do much against Wings but he put Pens on his back in Caps series when things looked awfully grim and Ovechkin was punching his ticket to Conference finals. Stanley Cup is more than just the final round. Crosby did a lot to get his team another shot at Detroit. just talking about leading by example. Lidstrom or Yzerman (or Sakic or Messier would NEVER embelish or dive. We're talking about leaders. Scuderi or Orpik should be the captain of that team (well if scuderi hangs around.) But the NHL and Bettman were in so much of a hurry to "take away" Yzerman's distinguished "youngest Captain in the NHL" record, that their chosen son has been nothing but a pathetic excuse for a Captain. May be a good hockey player, but he's an aweful captain. No Captain in their right mind, "ACTS" like Cindy. I wonder if his dad taught him to do that kind of stuff? I can see him now in Pee Wee, diving all over the place and his dad cheering for him. Next logical progression is homosexuality... I don't and never will respect anyone who acts like that. Not, Cindy, not Forsberg, not Karyia, Not Maltby (for his little head jerks (not as bad as the others, but still looks pathetic.)) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snazzy 0 Report post Posted June 24, 2009 Does it make the Penguin fans mad that team captains such as: Mark Messier, Steve Yzerman, and Joe Sakic are all-time beloved and respected NHL Captains ever to play the game. While Crosby is the biggest laughing stock, mocked and pussified face of NHL; nobody outside of Pittsburgh likes or respects him what-so-ever? I'd be pissed if we had a team captain that was clown that nobody respected or liked. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedWingedKitten 9 Report post Posted June 24, 2009 In 97 the Russian Five was the second line. (if you can call it that) The salary cap will stop any teams like the 97-02 Wings from ever being assembled again. Lets go Red Wings! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegreat66 19 Report post Posted June 24, 2009 Does it make the Penguin fans mad that team captains such as: Mark Messier, Steve Yzerman, and Joe Sakic are all-time beloved and respected NHL Captains ever to play the game. While Crosby is the biggest laughing stock, mocked and pussified face of NHL; nobody outside of Pittsburgh likes or respects him what-so-ever? I'd be pissed if we had a team captain that was clown that nobody respected or liked. In all honesty Snazzy I don't care and I dont mean that to sound smart but that is just how I feel. I'm a Penguin fan so I generaly like Crosby but if he played for another team maybe I would feel different- who knows? I remember in the early 90s traveling to Canada for a fishing trip and being surprised that a lot of the Canadiens I ran into when finding out I was from Pittsburgh had to tell me how much they hated Lemieux and that he was a whiner and prima donna when compared to Gretzky. I was surprised but couldn't say it really bothered me. Nor would it have much of an impact if opposing fans held one of our key players in high regard. I just like guys who play for the team I root for to perform well on the ice and basically live their personal life as a somewhat respectable citizen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drake_Marcus 890 Report post Posted June 24, 2009 In all honesty Snazzy I don't care and I dont mean that to sound smart but that is just how I feel. I'm a Penguin fan so I generaly like Crosby but if he played for another team maybe I would feel different- who knows? I remember in the early 90s traveling to Canada for a fishing trip and being surprised that a lot of the Canadiens I ran into when finding out I was from Pittsburgh had to tell me how much they hated Lemieux and that he was a whiner and prima donna when compared to Gretzky. I was surprised but couldn't say it really bothered me. Nor would it have much of an impact if opposing fans held one of our key players in high regard. I just like guys who play for the team I root for to perform well on the ice and basically live their personal life as a somewhat respectable citizen. Great response. Please stick around these boards, we could use more answers like this when people start flaming other teams. As far as Lemieux goes, I loved Mario as a kid- even bought a Pens jersey when it went on sale (hey- I was an impressionable ~10 year old with some birthday money and a recently read book on Mario's life ). My loyalties were always to the Wings, but damn it if I didn't think Mario was better than Gretz. If Mario said healthy he would've eaten Gretzky's records alive (prior to unretiring, Mario had a better career ppg than Gretz). Plus, "Super Mario" vs. "The Great One"? Easiest nickname contest ever. Gretz had a nickname that sounded like a Pepsi ad executive's name for his penis. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlakKy 58 Report post Posted June 24, 2009 My choice is the 97 Wings. The 02 Wings were more impressive on paper then on the ice. The players were older, but it didn't stop the Western conference all-stars from winning with pure talent. The 92 Pens were great, and a 7 game series between them and the 97 Wings would probably be one of the best ever, but I'd still bet on the Wings if I had too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcom007 1,465 Report post Posted June 24, 2009 92 Mighty Ducks easy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted June 24, 2009 In all honesty Snazzy I don't care and I dont mean that to sound smart but that is just how I feel. I'm a Penguin fan so I generaly like Crosby but if he played for another team maybe I would feel different- who knows? I remember in the early 90s traveling to Canada for a fishing trip and being surprised that a lot of the Canadiens I ran into when finding out I was from Pittsburgh had to tell me how much they hated Lemieux and that he was a whiner and prima donna when compared to Gretzky. I was surprised but couldn't say it really bothered me. Nor would it have much of an impact if opposing fans held one of our key players in high regard. I just like guys who play for the team I root for to perform well on the ice and basically live their personal life as a somewhat respectable citizen. Like Crosby (whining, diving), Mario deserved a lot of the criticism he received early on in his career -- he coasted on talent, did not work hard or train hard consistently and smoked a hell of a lot of cigarettes. Mario has since admitted this numerous times. Like Crosby will, it took Lemieux a while to overcome that perception -- but he certainly more than redeemed himself to hockey fans every where. Gretzky was no angel either - he whined and complained plenty (so did Yzerman). Don't get me wrong - I am not defending Crosby as I sincerely do not like him - but other greats have had deserved criticism early in their careers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Free_Candy 38 Report post Posted June 24, 2009 Don't get me wrong - I am not defending Crosby as I sincerely do not like him - but other greats have had deserved criticism early in their careers. I think that is a pretty fair assessment. I tend to think a lot of players are viewed with rosier shades years later after the fact moreso than when they are actually playing, especially when they are in the early part of their careers. History will be the judge of Crosby or any of the young elites in the league. I can think of a few players I hated back in the 90s but miss watching them play now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegreat66 19 Report post Posted June 24, 2009 Great response. Please stick around these boards, we could use more answers like this when people start flaming other teams. As far as Lemieux goes, I loved Mario as a kid- even bought a Pens jersey when it went on sale (hey- I was an impressionable ~10 year old with some birthday money and a recently read book on Mario's life ). My loyalties were always to the Wings, but damn it if I didn't think Mario was better than Gretz. If Mario said healthy he would've eaten Gretzky's records alive (prior to unretiring, Mario had a better career ppg than Gretz). Plus, "Super Mario" vs. "The Great One"? Easiest nickname contest ever. Gretz had a nickname that sounded like a Pepsi ad executive's name for his penis. LOL on Gretz's nickname. Appreciate the kind words and hope to stay around- a lot of knowledge on these boards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted June 24, 2009 (edited) (prior to unretiring, Mario had a better career ppg than Gretz). This gets brought up a lot for some reason -- Sure, if Mario never un-retired, he would have retired with a higher PPG than Gretzky (2.01 vs. Gretzky's 1.92). But Gretzky continued to play well into his 30s and with a bad back. If Gretzky had retired after 12 years (when Mario retired the first time), his PPG would have been 2.315 -- well higher than the 2.01 the first time Mario retired. Edited June 24, 2009 by egroen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
