Vladimir Konstantinov

[kickazz 5,459]

On 7/31/2018 at 2:34 PM, GMRwings1983 said:

LOL.  There's a thread about this on HFboards' history section and it's not even close.  He wouldn't be in the HHOF.  He was already in his 30's when the accident happened.  He would have needed to play another 10 years at an absurd level to make the HOF.  He was never known for his offensive prowess, and that's what makes the HOF these days.  

Look, Konstantinov was a very good player for the Wings and it's terrible what's happened to him, but his career trajectory has been way too overstated on this forum.  On what planet would he actually make the HOF or get his number retired?  Not on this one.    

He was 29 but either way Lidstrom didn't start winning Norris trophies till he was 30 and had better performances in his 30s than he did in his 20s. I don't know if he would be a HHOFamer but we've seen example of defenseman sustaining play and maybe even playing better in late 20s and early to mid 30s. 

[LeftWinger 4,953]

Meh, rather it be The Coffey award. 

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

15 hours ago, kickazz said:

He was 29 but either way Lidstrom didn't start winning Norris trophies till he was 30 and had better performances in his 30s than he did in his 20s. I don't know if he would be a HHOFamer but we've seen example of defenseman sustaining play and maybe even playing better in late 20s and early to mid 30s. 

Lidstrom was a freak of nature though.  Hard to expect anyone else to play like that in their 30's.    

12 hours ago, F.Michael said:

I think it's more challenging to make it in the HOF as a Dman - ESPECIALLY one who knows what his own end of the ice looks like.

Unless you have 40 plus pts average per season, AND exceptional defensive skillset - you're more, or less left out which is why I agree with you...As much as I loathed Adam Foote - he was a top notch Dman who changed his game (courtesy of the 90's era defensive mindset) in order to do what was best for his team.

There's been talk over the years for an award for the best defensive minded Dman...Although with the way the game is today - it's rather moot.

EDIT - since there's the Selke...Why not make the best defensive Dman the Norris, and have a new award for the best offensive Dman the 'Orr' award?

I've always thought it should go to the best overall defenseman.  The players that have usually won it were great all around.  Every now and then, it's given to someone who's great offensively but not so much in their own zone.  Rarely is it the other way around.  Like I said, Langway is an outlier.  

[krsmith17 7,191]

14 minutes ago, GMRwings1983 said:

Lidstrom was a freak of nature though.  Hard to expect anyone else to play like that in their 30's.

I've always thought it should go to the best overall defenseman.  The players that have usually won it were great all around.  Every now and then, it's given to someone who's great offensively but not so much in their own zone.  Rarely is it the other way around.  Like I said, Langway is an outlier.  

Lidstrom also played a MUCH different style of game than Konstantinov. It's very rare to see a defenseman play such a physical brand of hockey into his 40's and still be effective. Had that accident not ended Vladdy's career, I think he would have retired / went back to Russia by 35. Even if he did play beyond 35, he wouldn't have been the same player.

Kronwall is actually a decent comparable to Konstantinov. Does anyone think he will get into the HHOF?

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

57 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Lidstrom also played a MUCH different style of game than Konstantinov. It's very rare to see a defenseman play such a physical brand of hockey into his 40's and still be effective. Had that accident not ended Vladdy's career, I think he would have retired / went back to Russia by 35. Even if he did play beyond 35, he wouldn't have been the same player.

Kronwall is actually a decent comparable to Konstantinov. Does anyone think he will get into the HHOF?

I agree, and no.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Lidstrom also played a MUCH different style of game than Konstantinov. It's very rare to see a defenseman play such a physical brand of hockey into his 40's and still be effective. Had that accident not ended Vladdy's career, I think he would have retired / went back to Russia by 35. Even if he did play beyond 35, he wouldn't have been the same player.

Kronwall is actually a decent comparable to Konstantinov. Does anyone think he will get into the HHOF?

That's a good point.  Physically he'd have a better chance to wear out than Lidstrom did.  

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

On 8/2/2018 at 9:41 AM, krsmith17 said:

Kronwall is actually a decent comparable to Konstantinov. Does anyone think he will get into the HHOF?

No chance.

On 8/2/2018 at 9:02 AM, LeftWinger said:

Meh, rather it be The Coffey award. 

So the "Forward Who Plays Defense" Award?

 

22 hours ago, F.Michael said:

Fair enough, but it was Orr who revolutionized the position in becoming an offensive weapon...He was the Godfather of offensive Dmen.

Agree. 2nd best all around D to ever play the game.

[barabbas16 499]

On 8/2/2018 at 10:41 AM, krsmith17 said:

Lidstrom also played a MUCH different style of game than Konstantinov. It's very rare to see a defenseman play such a physical brand of hockey into his 40's and still be effective. Had that accident not ended Vladdy's career, I think he would have retired / went back to Russia by 35. Even if he did play beyond 35, he wouldn't have been the same player.

Kronwall is actually a decent comparable to Konstantinov. Does anyone think he will get into the HHOF?

Solid points.  Being runner-up in 97 Norris voting (probably would've increased future award consideration), the likelihood of 3 or so Cups, being a part of the Russian Five, and having a better team to cover him up in his later years might have increased Konstantinov's HHOF resume.

[kickazz 5,459]

On 8/2/2018 at 10:15 AM, GMRwings1983 said:

Lidstrom was a freak of nature though.  Hard to expect anyone else to play like that in their 30's.    

Scott Stevens was a physical guy that made it work in his 30s. His production went down but his defensive play arguably improved with NJ. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

16 hours ago, kickazz said:

Scott Stevens was a physical guy that made it work in his 30s. His production went down but his defensive play arguably improved with NJ. 

Stevens was a freak of nature as well though. I think he was an exception to an extremely physical player playing well into his late 30's. Maybe Vladdy would have done it as well, but I wouldn't have bet on it, especially considering the rest of the Russian 5 were gone by the time he was 35.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

On 8/4/2018 at 5:24 PM, kickazz said:

Scott Stevens was a physical guy that made it work in his 30s. His production went down but his defensive play arguably improved with NJ. 

Stevens changed his career like no other player I can think of.  He went from being a productive offensive defenseman to a dramatic reduction in stats and becoming a defensive defenseman.  Guess how many Norris trophies he won, though?  

[kickazz 5,459]

53 minutes ago, GMRwings1983 said:

Stevens changed his career like no other player I can think of.  He went from being a productive offensive defenseman to a dramatic reduction in stats and becoming a defensive defenseman.  Guess how many Norris trophies he won, though?  

First ballot HOF with zero Norris trophies

[xault 272]

19 minutes ago, kickazz said:

First ballot HOF with zero Norris trophies

Do you think Weber is the next HOF D with no Norris?

random question, just wondering.

Edited August 6, 2018 by xault

[kickazz 5,459]

4 hours ago, xault said:

Do you think Weber is the next HOF D with no Norris?

random question, just wondering.

There’s a chance. But without the Stanley Cup, I’m not so sure. 

Stevens won three Stanley Cups, and a Conn Smythe even though he didn’t have a Norris. 

I think Weber would need at least the Cup to make a case. Never mind the MVP award. 

Edited August 6, 2018 by kickazz

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

6 hours ago, xault said:

Do you think Weber is the next HOF D with no Norris?

random question, just wondering.

No.  Has never won the Norris trophy or had a memorable playoff run.  Doesn't have Phil Housley's sexy numbers.  

[toby91_ca 620]

On 8/1/2018 at 6:15 PM, kickazz said:

He was 29 but either way Lidstrom didn't start winning Norris trophies till he was 30 and had better performances in his 30s than he did in his 20s. I don't know if he would be a HHOFamer but we've seen example of defenseman sustaining play and maybe even playing better in late 20s and early to mid 30s. 

No, he was 30.

[kickazz 5,459]

3 hours ago, toby91_ca said:

No, he was 30.

Oh yeah, his bday was a few months before. 

Edited August 7, 2018 by kickazz

[chaps80 1,591]

Tremendous player, tremendous loss. I always held out hope he'd somehow make it back on the ice, even though i knew he wouldn't.