40#1Fan 0 Report post Posted June 25, 2009 http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Detro...915926-sun.html MONTREAL- The Detroit Red Wings are waiting for an answer from winger Marian Hossa. The talk in NHL circles is the Wings have a made a lucrative long-term offer to the UFA winger and are waiting to see whether he'll accept the deal or test the market July 1. Hossa, who signed a one year deal worth $7.45 million (all terms US) last season, will be the most sought after free agent on the market if he keeps his UFA status. That decision should be made in the next couple of days. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Echolalia 2,961 Report post Posted June 25, 2009 And so it begins. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
therock48880 14 Report post Posted June 25, 2009 They can go 10% over the cap during the offseason, correct? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray1905 18 Report post Posted June 25, 2009 (edited) At first I didn't care about Hossa but now I hope the Wings sign him, if he's going to rebound after this year bad playoffs it should be with the Wings, he was great in the playoffs with the Pens last years I want to see him play that way next year with the Wings. Edited June 25, 2009 by Ray1905 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
b.shanafan14 733 Report post Posted June 25, 2009 At first I didn't care about Hossa but now I hope the Wings sign him, if he's going to rebound after this year bad playoffs it should be with the Wings, he was great in the playoffs with the Pens last years I want to see him play that way next year with the Wings. I'm pretty much the same. If he is willing to sign long-term for around $4mil/season as previously reported (which seems like a stretch) and we don't lose Filpulla or Cleary, I'm all for him sticking around. I think the pressure was WAY too much for him to handle this playoff, and in the Finals it was almost suffocating. He'll have a huge bounce back coming off a secure contract long-term, and I hope its with the Wings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
betterREDthandead 58 Report post Posted June 25, 2009 I think you'd have to assume that if there's an offer, it's in the style of the Zetterberg and Franzen offers where the very end of the contract is a way low number to bring the cap number down. Hossa is going to sign for the rest of his life or not at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wombat 26 Report post Posted June 25, 2009 I still don't see how this deal gets done without the Wings trading some pieces or some guys being 'forced' to retire. I don't want another regular season like last year in which there was no salary cap room available for the team to bring up minor league guys for quick/short term injury replacements (ones that do not give the Wings cap relief by going on LTIR). I think it's possible that the Wings can try to circumvent the cap somewhat by putting Lilja on LTIR to begin the season, and use that cap relief to keep everyone they can. But cuts still look like they are needed to get it all under the cap. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Echolalia 2,961 Report post Posted June 25, 2009 So has the salary cap been announced yet? I find it interesting that Holland allegedly offered Hossa a contract before the final cap numbers are announced, although I'm sure GM's would get the word before fans. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted June 25, 2009 Dont believe it. Once TSN or Mlive reports something, then it's true. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LIDDYGIBBY5 1 Report post Posted June 25, 2009 (edited) I still don't see how this deal gets done without the Wings trading some pieces or some guys being 'forced' to retire. I don't want another regular season like last year in which there was no salary cap room available for the team to bring up minor league guys for quick/short term injury replacements (ones that do not give the Wings cap relief by going on LTIR). I think it's possible that the Wings can try to circumvent the cap somewhat by putting Lilja on LTIR to begin the season, and use that cap relief to keep everyone they can. But cuts still look like they are needed to get it all under the cap. You are 100% correct. It doesn't happen with out losing Kronwall, or Stuart, or Filpula. It would also take losing another player as well as one of the others. Plus we would have to say goodbye to FA'nd Hudler and Sammy. Some of those losses would have to be for nothing because of NTC's. We are talking waiver wire situations in certain cases. Edited June 25, 2009 by LIDDYGIBBY5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StevieY9802 6 Report post Posted June 25, 2009 I'm pretty much the same. If he is willing to sign long-term for around $4mil/season as previously reported (which seems like a stretch) and we don't lose Filpulla or Cleary, I'm all for him sticking around. I think the pressure was WAY too much for him to handle this playoff, and in the Finals it was almost suffocating. He'll have a huge bounce back coming off a secure contract long-term, and I hope its with the Wings. Yeah keep him if you can keep Fil and Cleary, which I'm not sure how. If he walks that's fine. More money to spend to keep Hudler and maybe sign some type of roll player if they can. Try to keep cap space for a deadline deal. This team won without him and they can probably do it again. And there is more than enough talent here to fill in the holes around Hank, Pavel, Franzen, Cleary and Filpulla. Not a bad base to build from. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hockeysattva 8 Report post Posted June 25, 2009 The title of the thread doesn't fit with the article. Rumors suggest that Hossa has been offered something. This is a far cry from having actually happened, especially considering that Holland has been so clear about having to wait on the cap to do anything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LIDDYGIBBY5 1 Report post Posted June 25, 2009 (edited) FORWARDS Pavel Datsyuk $6,700,000 Henrik Zetterberg $6,083,333 Johan Franzen $3,954,545 Valtteri Filppula $3,000,000 Daniel Cleary $2,800,000 Tomas Holmstrom $2,250,000 Kris Draper $1,583,333 Ville Leino $1,100,000 Kirk Maltby $883,333 Justin Abdelkader $850,000 Tomas Kopecky $650,000 Darren Helm $599,444 Aaron Downey $500,000 DEFENSEMEN Nicklas Lidstrom $7,450,000 Brian Rafalaski $6,000,000 Brad Stuart $3,750,000 Niklas Kronwall $3,000,000 Andreas Lilja $1,250,000 Jonathan Ericsson $900,000 Brett Lebda $650,000 Derek Meech $483,333 GOALTENDERS Chris Osgood $1,416,666 Jimmy Howard $716,666 ROSTER SIZE 23 SALARY CAP $57,000,000 PAYROLL $56,570,653 BONUS MONEY (ESTIMATED) (0.2% of cap) $110,000 CAP ROOM $429,347 This is the best I can come up with. I was a little optimistic and move the cap up to $57M. I'm not quite sure how to add a MIN of $4M to get Hossa it w/o losing a key piece!! Edited June 25, 2009 by LIDDYGIBBY5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DreamsofHope 2 Report post Posted June 25, 2009 So this was strictly a dream... and there is no truth and probably nothing realistic about it, BUT... I had a dream last night that the wings traded Hudler, Lebda, Sammy, Lilja and our 1st rounder, for Toronto's first rounder. And then we signed Hossa to a (4.8 or 5.8) million dollar contract. The thing about this dream is that I was convinced it was true, or at least parts of it. I even got on Mlive this morning thinking I might see the Hossa signing news. The problem with the dream is that it still wouldn't have cleared the cap room for Hossa. Here are my thoughts on the whole Hossa deal, dream aside. I LOVE Hossa. My fear is that we will ruin what has made this team so great by fighting to keep him. We are constantly praised for being a TEAM and how we keep people around and have roll players instead of flat out 'stars.' I feel if we sign Hossa, we begin to lose that and dismantle this team. We also make the next few years of operating under the salary cap hell for us. We might not be able to sign our good young players, down the road, and we might have a ton of old, highly payed stars. 34-40 year old Hossa, Zetterberg, Franzen, Datsyuk. For the same cap hit... Just worries me a little. I'd love to see something magical happen, but aside from Hossa taking a 4 mil a year deal (which still would hurt) and Lidstrom eventually taking a pay cut... this doesn't make sense. Thoughts on the dream? Thoughts on the thoughts? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Winged_Wheeler 3 Report post Posted June 25, 2009 I hope he signs with the Wings, I want to see him lift his first Cup with Detroit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zetts 236 Report post Posted June 25, 2009 So this was strictly a dream... and there is no truth and probably nothing realistic about it, BUT... I had a dream last night that the wings traded Hudler, Lebda, Sammy, Lilja and our 1st rounder, for Toronto's first rounder. And then we signed Hossa to a (4.8 or 5.8) million dollar contract. The thing about this dream is that I was convinced it was true, or at least parts of it. I even got on Mlive this morning thinking I might see the Hossa signing news. The problem with the dream is that it still wouldn't have cleared the cap room for Hossa. Here are my thoughts on the whole Hossa deal, dream aside. I LOVE Hossa. My fear is that we will ruin what has made this team so great by fighting to keep him. We are constantly praised for being a TEAM and how we keep people around and have roll players instead of flat out 'stars.' I feel if we sign Hossa, we begin to lose that and dismantle this team. We also make the next few years of operating under the salary cap hell for us. We might not be able to sign our good young players, down the road, and we might have a ton of old, highly payed stars. 34-40 year old Hossa, Zetterberg, Franzen, Datsyuk. For the same cap hit... Just worries me a little. I'd love to see something magical happen, but aside from Hossa taking a 4 mil a year deal (which still would hurt) and Lidstrom eventually taking a pay cut... this doesn't make sense. Thoughts on the dream? Thoughts on the thoughts? Interesting dream. Obviously wouldn't happen since it would only be Hudler's and Sammy's rights since they're UFA's to be...and even if they weren't the deal still wouldn't be made. It would be nice though. I completely agree on Hossa. I cannot express how little I want him back here. I don't care if he is a star or not, and if he actually is capable of pulling his head out of his ass in the playoffs or not. Like you said, it's a team, and that's how I want it to stay. I still think it's pathetic how he wilted. You want a damn cup Marian? You had your chance. Maybe, as our leading goal scorer in the regular season, scoring one in consecutive 2-1 losses in the finals would be nice. Thanks. That just gave me the impression he wants someone else to win a cup FOR him. He can come here to Deadmonton and his career can rot with the Oilers for that 9 year 87 million contract or whatever it was. It's what he deserves. Yes, I'm still bitter, does it show? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DreamsofHope 2 Report post Posted June 25, 2009 Interesting dream. Obviously wouldn't happen since it would only be Hudler's and Sammy's rights since they're UFA's to be...and even if they weren't the deal still wouldn't be made. It would be nice though. I completely agree on Hossa. I cannot express how little I want him back here. I don't care if he is a star or not, and if he actually is capable of pulling his head out of his ass in the playoffs or not. Like you said, it's a team, and that's how I want it to stay. I still think it's pathetic how he wilted. You want a damn cup Marian? You had your chance. Maybe, as our leading goal scorer in the regular season, scoring one in consecutive 2-1 losses in the finals would be nice. Thanks. That just gave me the impression he wants someone else to win a cup FOR him. He can come here to Deadmonton and his career can rot with the Oilers for that 9 year 87 million contract or whatever it was. It's what he deserves. Yes, I'm still bitter, does it show? Well Hudler is a RFA to be, so his rights are worth a lot more than a UFA. And yeah Sammy would just be rights. Ha ha I don't know why I'm standing up for my dream. But it would be sweet, to get Toronto's first pick. I don't think Hossa is selfish at all. I don't think he had desires of doing nothing while a team won for him. I mean the Wings front office thought the world of him, how hard he worked, his skill level, and his personal integrity. I don't think that was the issue. I think the issue is keeping him might blow up our whole team. I think he is a man of integrity. I mean he plays hockey professionally, and I believe he wants to score, contribute, play and be a part of this team. He said part of his decision to come to Detroit was to learn from the Detroit greats. Yzerman, Lids, Draper, Cheli, etc. I see how you could be bitter though. I'm not bitter, but I don't blame you for being bitter. I just think if Hossa staying blows up our team philosophy it isn't worth it... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Echolalia 2,961 Report post Posted June 25, 2009 So this was strictly a dream... and there is no truth and probably nothing realistic about it, BUT... I had a dream last night that the wings traded Hudler, Lebda, Sammy, Lilja and our 1st rounder, for Toronto's first rounder. And then we signed Hossa to a (4.8 or 5.8) million dollar contract. The thing about this dream is that I was convinced it was true, or at least parts of it. I even got on Mlive this morning thinking I might see the Hossa signing news. The problem with the dream is that it still wouldn't have cleared the cap room for Hossa. Here are my thoughts on the whole Hossa deal, dream aside. I LOVE Hossa. My fear is that we will ruin what has made this team so great by fighting to keep him. We are constantly praised for being a TEAM and how we keep people around and have roll players instead of flat out 'stars.' I feel if we sign Hossa, we begin to lose that and dismantle this team. We also make the next few years of operating under the salary cap hell for us. We might not be able to sign our good young players, down the road, and we might have a ton of old, highly payed stars. 34-40 year old Hossa, Zetterberg, Franzen, Datsyuk. For the same cap hit... Just worries me a little. I'd love to see something magical happen, but aside from Hossa taking a 4 mil a year deal (which still would hurt) and Lidstrom eventually taking a pay cut... this doesn't make sense. Thoughts on the dream? Thoughts on the thoughts? That is definitely the dilemma that everyone has running through their head right now. The first thing worth mentioning is that 34-40 year old players are still capable of producing, as well as mentoring. They won't be putting up 80-100 pts a season, but they will contribute. Secondly, Datsyuk is a free agent in 6 years, so if he re-signs, he won't be taking 6M away from the cap, but rather 2-3M, depending on his performance. That presently leaves Z and Franzen for 11.5 M off our cap 10 years down the road and potentially Hossa for about 15M total, which is a bit, but not substantially capable of crippling our team. We also have no idea where the salary cap will be 10+ years from now. In 2006 the cap was at 39M. Now, nobody is expecting the rate of growth to continue at that rate for 10+ years, but the league is still tinkering with the numbers to find the ideal range (we're still on the up trend) and inflation is all but certain for the future. 15M off a salary cap of 65M isn't nearly as bad as 15M off a cap of 55M, although inflation will certainly include players' salaries as well. In any event, I see Holland retiring sometime before the Zetterberg contract is up, and right now he is just putting the pieces together to ensure that the Wings will be the absolute best they can be while he is still in office. Who knows if he isn't worried about what happens after that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z and D for the C 712 Report post Posted June 25, 2009 I hope he signs with the Wings, I want to see him lift his first Cup with Detroit. This Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rick zombo 3,739 Report post Posted June 25, 2009 I agree that having depth is key. And without a doubt it's been the thing that has made and kept The Wings so strong all these years. But here's the thing. Losing a handful of players in order to keep Hossa would only be an issue this year. In 10/11: - Lidstrom will get a new contract and most likely the Wings will save 2M if he re-signs rather than retires (fingers crossed). - Holmstrom's 2.25M either comes off the books completely, or he re-sign for, let's say 1M less. - Maltby is done - Lilja's 1.25M is off the books. Unless he re-sigs. Regardless, there will be more wiggle room in 10/11 to regain that depth or at least start re-building it with younger cheaper players. Even if some vets, like Homer, come back, they will be cheaper contracts, etc. etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
digitaljohn88 4 Report post Posted June 25, 2009 (edited) We don't need to carry 23 guys on the roster, correct? I could be wrong. I thought we had 21 most of last year. 12 forwards and 7 defensemen. My modified roster version: FORWARDS Pavel Datsyuk $6,700,000 Henrik Zetterberg $6,083,333 Marian Hossa $4,500,000 Johan Franzen $3,954,545 Valtteri Filppula $3,000,000 Daniel Cleary $2,800,000 Kris Draper $1,583,333 Ville Leino $1,100,000 Kirk Maltby $883,333 Justin Abdelkader $850,000 Tomas Kopecky $650,000 Darren Helm $599,444 DEFENSEMEN Nicklas Lidstrom $7,450,000 Brian Rafalaski $6,000,000 Brad Stuart $3,750,000 Niklas Kronwall $3,000,000 Jonathan Ericsson $900,000 Brett Lebda $650,000 Derek Meech $483,333 GOALTENDERS Chris Osgood $1,416,666 Jimmy Howard $716,666 ROSTER SIZE 21 SALARY CAP $57,000,000 PAYROLL $57,070,653 CAP ROOM -$70,653 This is assuming Lilja is on long term IR next season (hope he's not), Holmstrom somehow... disappears (which I don't think would happen), and that Sammy and Hudler are let go. I put Hossa's salary at 4.5 mil, I think he could be pretty close to that. I still couldn't fit it under an assumed $57mil cap, but it came close. Especially if we got Hossa for less than the 4.5 I penciled in. IMO, we lose too much depth in any scenario to sign Hossa unless we make some major moves. Our lines with the above configuration: Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Cleary Franzen - Filppula - Hossa Leino - Helm - Abdelkader Kopecky - Draper - Maltby Lidstrom - Rafalski Stuart - Kronwall Ericsson - Meech/Lebda Osgood Howard I'm not sure that I like it. Especially with an all-rookie third line, though all of them are promising. I really like Hossa, but we may have to just let him go. If anyone got injured on this roster... would we have decent replacements? (sorry if any of my math is off) Edited June 25, 2009 by digitaljohn88 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snazzy 0 Report post Posted June 25, 2009 Can't Holland structure a contract that work with Lidstrom's contract (and some of the other guys coming off the books) next year? Do something 10 years - 2million, 7.5million, 7.5million, 7.5million, 7million, 6million, 4.5million, 3.5million, 2million, ^for example Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zetts 236 Report post Posted June 25, 2009 Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Cleary Franzen - Filppula - Hossa Leino - Helm - Abdelkader Kopecky - Draper - Maltby Lidstrom - Rafalski Stuart - Kronwall Ericsson - Meech/Lebda Osgood Howard I'm not sure that I like it. Especially with an all-rookie third line, though all of them are promising. I really like Hossa, but we may have to just let him go. If anyone got injured on this roster... would we have decent replacements? (sorry if any of my math is off) Agreed. It's painful to think about the lack of depth this team will have if we sign him. And the management already said they want Abdelkader to spend another year in GR too, so I really don't know what would happen. I've never been a "Kenny, do this please" type of person, but please, Kenny, if you ever read this, even for s***s and giggles, DO NOT RESIGN HOSSA. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zetts 236 Report post Posted June 25, 2009 Can't Holland structure a contract that work with Lidstrom's contract (and some of the other guys coming off the books) next year? Do something 10 years - 2million, 7.5million, 7.5million, 7.5million, 7million, 6million, 4.5million, 3.5million, 2million, ^for example He could do it, but it wouldn't help our cap situation. It's the average of all years that's the cap hit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Winged_Wheeler 3 Report post Posted June 25, 2009 If Lidstrom has to take less he will, he's done it before. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites