YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/index.ph...c=59542&hl= Yeah, because that's exactly what I have been saying.... I think Hudler-lovers are very sensitive, relax people, I have nothing against him personally, but everyone of you expected Hossa to stay for 50% of what he s worth, is it so wrong that I believe the same thing about Hudler? "What has Hudler done to deserve a raise? If he wants more than 1.1, TRADE HIM" Yup. Kopecky is worth more than Hudler, according to you. You're strange and twisted LW. If I had anyone pegged as the psychotic schizo who has such an obsession with a guy to the point where he both hates them and loves and then, and subsequently rapes his victim before killing him, it would be you. The only obsession I have is with idiots who can't comprehend the value of a player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Big Red Machine 0 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 People in this thread are getting really heated. Well, you know what they say... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/index.ph...c=59542&hl= Yeah, because that's exactly what I have been saying.... I think Hudler-lovers are very sensitive, relax people, I have nothing against him personally, but everyone of you expected Hossa to stay for 50% of what he s worth, is it so wrong that I believe the same thing about Hudler? Your Quotes: face it, if Huds wants a raise, we'll see him somewhere else... http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/index.ph...9685&st=140 He needs to either sign for $1.1 or get a long term Zetterberg deal that pays him $2.5 but cap hit is $1.0.... so why would we give a raise to a one-dimensional player? I'll keep hudler, but for his same salary. He hasn't shown he deserves a raise, so if wants more than $1.1, good on ya huds! Enjoy your career! Could you just shut up about Hudler for once, by the way? Its getting tough trying to balance all the stupidity you're injecting into the forum with some common sense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 Did it ever occur to you that MAYBE THEY PLAY DIFFERENT ROLES, DUDE? All the more reason why one shouldn't replace the other. And I'm more of a fan of Neil than Hudler, but Id take 57 points at 2M over Neil at 2M any day. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,953 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 "What has Hudler done to deserve a raise? If he wants more than 1.1, TRADE HIM" Yup. Kopecky is worth more than Hudler, according to you. You're strange and twisted LW. If I had anyone pegged as the psychotic schizo who has such an obsession with a guy to the point where he both hates them and loves and then, and subsequently rapes his victim before killing him, it would be you. The only obsession I have is with idiots who can't comprehend the value of a player. I do not like him period. Is it so wrong for someone not to like a player, even though that players plays for the team he likes? And my point with the $1.1m is that is what he should agree to play for HERE, not that his value is not more on the market, and no Kopecky is not worth $1.2m, I don't know what Chicago was thinking, but, they gave it to him, which was my entire point about Hudler getting $2.5 of our $3.3 cap. Takes up too much cap space for my liking, but Holland isn't trying to please me or any of you either, so as far as I am concerned he can give Hudler the entire $4.5 and when Lilja is heathy just waive him, it makes me no difference. The point of this thread was to see if anyone thought Hudler would take a long term deal to bring his cap hit down, but obviously for all the Hudler fans, he deserves just slightly under his market value and yet Hossa is an ass for not taking 50% of what his value is... Once again, I direct you to my thread what he is worth ON THE MARKET, so I comprehend what a player is worth. Just not worth soaking up most of our remaning capspace... IF he wants the payday, then go, be free, if he wants to stay, he must take the lessor contract, which I beleive should be around $1.1 to $1.5m... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Uncle Danny 155 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 (edited) Did it ever occur to you that MAYBE THEY PLAY DIFFERENT ROLES, DUDE? YES, DUDE, IT DID! My original post was in reponse to this: "Just put the $$$ that would've been spent on Hudler towards a bid on Neil, & call it a day," which implies that Hudler is not worth as much as Chris Neil when talking pocketbooks. I called hogwash on that. I never said Neil wouldn't benefit the team, nor did I say that his role was less important. I think it goes without saying that scoring is worth more $$$ on the market than PIMs, even if both roles are important to a cup run. The difference being, Hudler is very redundant on this team, while Neil is the kind of player we needed. We'll get a Neil type eventually, when the dead weight known as Draper and Maltby are put to pasture. Scoring is redundant to a team that just lost a 40 goal man? I agree with you on the Draper and Maltby fronts, FWIW. Edit: Typo Edited July 2, 2009 by Uncle Danny Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 The difference being, Hudler is very redundant on this team, while Neil is the kind of player we needed. We'll get a Neil type eventually, when the dead weight known as Draper and Maltby are put to pasture. Hudler isn't redundant. Where are we replacing the offense of Hossa and Sammy from especially if Hudler doesn't come back? Holmstrom isn't a top six forward anymore. Leino maybe has the potential, but hasn't proven much at the NHL level (not really his fault). The Red Wings re-signed Val Filppula (which probably ultimately cost us Hossa), who you could argue is very redundant on this team, and yet Hudler is a much bigger threat offensively and he should go? Hudler had 57 points playing on the third line most of the past season. We need Jiri Hudler back more than ever now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 I do not like him period. Is it so wrong for someone not to like a player, even though that players plays for the team he likes? And my point with the $1.1m is that is what he should agree to play for HERE, not that his value is not more on the market, and no Kopecky is not worth $1.2m, I don't know what Chicago was thinking, but, they gave it to him, which was my entire point about Hudler getting $2.5 of our $3.3 cap. Takes up too much cap space for my liking, but Holland isn't trying to please me or any of you either, so as far as I am concerned he can give Hudler the entire $4.5 and when Lilja is heathy just waive him, it makes me no difference. The point of this thread was to see if anyone thought Hudler would take a long term deal to bring his cap hit down, but obviously for all the Hudler fans, he deserves just slightly under his market value and yet Hossa is an ass for not taking 50% of what his value is... Once again, I direct you to my thread what he is worth ON THE MARKET, so I comprehend what a player is worth. Just not worth soaking up most of our remaning capspace... IF he wants the payday, then go, be free, if he wants to stay, he must take the lessor contract, which I beleive should be around $1.1 to $1.5m... Then, please tell. Who do you propose we should spend our money on, taking into consideration the market? For 3.3M we could have Sami Pahlsson and his career high 26 points, and Michael Rupp. Thats what 3.3M gets you on the open market. But even then we'd have to trade someone, because even Rupp is making 825k. I don't give a f*** if Hudler rips off his face to reveal that his Osama Bin Laden. If he can score 55 points, and cost us 2-2.5M, sign him up. Thats what this is about. I don't particularly like Hudler, but what I do like is the thought of having a 55 point guy signed up for somewhere in the neighbor hood of 2-2.5M. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 Hudler isn't redundant. Where are we replacing the offense of Hossa and Sammy from especially if Hudler doesn't come back? Holmstrom isn't a top six forward anymore. Leino maybe has the potential, but hasn't proven much at the NHL level (not really his fault). The Red Wings re-signed Val Filppula (which probably ultimately cost us Hossa), who you could argue is very redundant on this team, and yet Hudler is a much bigger threat offensively and he should go? Hudler had 57 points playing on the third line most of the past season. We need Jiri Hudler back more than ever now. This. This isn't about keeping Hudler at all costs. This is about retaining some offense from a team that just lost over 50 goals and 100 points. Add Hudler to that and you're looking at a loss of 75+ goals and 100+ points gone out the window. I'm dying to know what better way there is to spend $2.5M in this market. The only way it makes sense to get rid up Hudler is if we're trading him for a youngster who makes around 1M bucks and can put up 35-40 points. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Interupt 0 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 Hudler isn't redundant. Where are we replacing the offense of Hossa and Sammy from especially if Hudler doesn't come back? Holmstrom isn't a top six forward anymore. Leino maybe has the potential, but hasn't proven much at the NHL level (not really his fault). The Red Wings re-signed Val Filppula (which probably ultimately cost us Hossa), who you could argue is very redundant on this team, and yet Hudler is a much bigger threat offensively and he should go? Hudler had 57 points playing on the third line most of the past season. We need Jiri Hudler back more than ever now. Hudler IS redundant. Since Hossa is gone, its pretty clear that Babcock will go back to the DZH line. Homer is a top six forward, while playing on a line with the Twins. Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Holmstrom Cleary-Filppula-Franzen They won the cup with those lines...You'll notice one name missing from that top six and its Jiri Hudler. Even if you got "Crazy" with the lines, Holmstrom won't be playing on the bottom two lines, so you're looking at: Filppula-Datsyuk-Holmstrom Cleary-Zetterberg-Franzen That leaves a bottom six of Leino, Helm, Draper, Maltby, Abdelkader and another player. Franzen - 11 years Zetterberg - 10 years Datsyuk - 5 years Filppula - 4 years Cleary - 4 years Holmstrom - 1 year Can Hudler play the role of Holmstrom? Obviously not. Hudler is never going to get a chance of being a top six player on this team. The cap space saved by not signing Hudler gives us the ability to sign an all star player at the deadline for cheap. Or even better, two role players who are upcoming UFAs for a deep playoff run. The draft pick(s) more than makes up for Hudler's loss. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Uncle Danny 155 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 This. This isn't about keeping Hudler at all costs. This is about retaining some offense from a team that just lost over 50 goals and 100 points. Add Hudler to that and you're looking at a loss of 75+ goals and 100+ points gone out the window. I'm dying to know what better way there is to spend $2.5M in this market. The only way it makes sense to get rid up Hudler is if we're trading him for a youngster who makes around 1M bucks and can put up 35-40 points. Which doesn't exist and states my own point better than I've been able to thus far. Spasibo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 To be honest I question Hudler's abilities in becomming a top 6 forward...Sure he can create offense with the man advantage, but what else has he been able to do on a consistent basis? He put up 29 ESP in 871 minutes = 1 ESP every 33 minutes Cleary put up 34 ESPs in 973 minutes = 1 ESP every 34 minutes Filppula put up 36 ESPs in 1,084 minutes = 1 ESP every 33 minutes If you have issues with Hudler becoming a top 6 forward, then we have issues with a lot of guys being top 6 forwards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 Which doesn't exist and states my own point better than I've been able to thus far. Spasibo. Actually, they do exist. Hudler just won't be able to garner one in a trade, which makes MY point all the more important. 2.5M for 55+ points is a steal. Mmk thanks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Interupt 0 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 He put up 29 ESP in 871 minutes = 1 ESP every 33 minutes Cleary put up 34 ESPs in 973 minutes = 1 ESP every 34 minutes Filppula put up 36 ESPs in 1,084 minutes = 1 ESP every 33 minutes If you have issues with Hudler becoming a top 6 forward, then we have issues with a lot of guys being top 6 forwards. Can Hudler take faceoffs? Can Hudler throw a check? OK then.. Theres more to hockey then just statistics. Hudler isn't fast enough to make up for his small size. And as we've seen, Helm is more likely to be in the top six than Hudler. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norrisnick 1 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 Hudler IS redundant. Since Hossa is gone, its pretty clear that Babcock will go back to the DZH line. Homer is a top six forward, while playing on a line with the Twins. Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Holmstrom Cleary-Filppula-Franzen They won the cup with those lines...You'll notice one name missing from that top six and its Jiri Hudler. Even if you got "Crazy" with the lines, Holmstrom won't be playing on the bottom two lines, so you're looking at: Filppula-Datsyuk-Holmstrom Cleary-Zetterberg-Franzen That leaves a bottom six of Leino, Helm, Draper, Maltby, Abdelkader and another player. Franzen - 11 years Zetterberg - 10 years Datsyuk - 5 years Filppula - 4 years Cleary - 4 years Holmstrom - 1 year Can Hudler play the role of Holmstrom? Obviously not. Hudler is never going to get a chance of being a top six player on this team. The cap space saved by not signing Hudler gives us the ability to sign an all star player at the deadline for cheap. Or even better, two role players who are upcoming UFAs for a deep playoff run. The draft pick(s) more than makes up for Hudler's loss. Hudler was the 5th leading scorer on the Wings that spring. Top 6 or not, he produces. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 (edited) Can Hudler take faceoffs? Can Hudler throw a check? OK then.. Theres more to hockey then just statistics. Hudler isn't fast enough to make up for his small size. And as we've seen, Helm is more likely to be in the top six than Hudler. Can Filppula put up 50 points? Can Cleary put up 50+ points? Ok then... Hudler scores. Contrary to popular belief, thats more important that a guy who takes dumb penalties, which, mind you, we'll still have space for. Also, take a look around the league, and see how many teams have 6 players with more than 57 points. Hudler already IS a top 6 forward, regardless of where you stick him in the lineup. And thats the beauty of it. On the 3rd line, Hudler puts up 57 points. Lets just take a look at how much it sucks to have a 57 point forward on the 3rd line. 57 points among forwards would make Hudler: 4th highest scoring forward on Chicago 2nd highest scoring forward on Columbus 4th highest scoring forward on NYR 2nd highest scoring forward on Montreal 5th highest scoring forward on Boston 2nd highest scoring forward on Edmonton 4th highest scoring forward on Washington 4th highest scoring forward on Vancouver 5th highest scoring forward on Philadelphia 4th highest scoring forward on Ottawa 3rd highest scoring forward on Dallas Tied for 5th highest on freaking San Jose 3rd highest scoring forward on Pittsburgh Even on deep teams like Boston, San Jose, Philadelphia, Hudler is STILL statistically a top 6 forward. The fact that he can put up points worthy of a 2nd liner and ONLY take up 3rd line minutes doing it makes him that much more valuable. Edited July 2, 2009 by YoungGuns1340 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norrisnick 1 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 This is pretty much how I see it. If Hudler wants a raise - then let him walk; the $$$ can be used later on at the trade deadline to shore-up any loose ends...I'd rather give Leino/Cleary/Helm/whomever a shot at Hudler's pp ice time. Why? Because you'd like to see the PP fail? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,794 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 He put up 29 ESP in 871 minutes = 1 ESP every 33 minutes Cleary put up 34 ESPs in 973 minutes = 1 ESP every 34 minutes Filppula put up 36 ESPs in 1,084 minutes = 1 ESP every 33 minutes If you have issues with Hudler becoming a top 6 forward, then we have issues with a lot of guys being top 6 forwards. I have ESP also. Big deal. Hudler isn't as good a two-way player as either of those guys. Cleary does it all for us. Flip is a different issue, but we don't want to overpay Hudler just because we also did that with Flip. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norrisnick 1 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 Hudler is Larionov. He's the offensive lynch pin for the middle 6. Kenny figured out in a hurry that letting him leave via free agency was a mistake. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SouthernWingsFan 854 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/index.ph...c=59542&hl= Yeah, because that's exactly what I have been saying.... I think Hudler-lovers are very sensitive, relax people, I have nothing against him personally, but everyone of you expected Hossa to stay for 50% of what he s worth, is it so wrong that I believe the same thing about Hudler? Clearly you don't, because you bring him up in pretty much any/every thread almost... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,794 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 Hudler is Larionov. He's the offensive lynch pin for the middle 6. Kenny figured out in a hurry that letting him leave via free agency was a mistake. Larionov was a Hall of Famer and a great centerman on our team. Hudler is s*** compared to Larionov, even when Igor was in his early 40's. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10 Minute Misconduct 104 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 lol do you ever make any threads that make sence? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 (edited) Cleary/Filppula IMO are far more useful at even strength that Hudler will ever be; pressuring the opposing Dmen, and backchecking are just a few things Hudler doesn't do very well, or at least with any consistency. Who the f*** cares if they are more useful at even strength? The point is Hudler puts up points at even strength AND on the powerplay. Its not like we have to pick between one of Cleary, Filppula, and Hudler. We're choosing between Hudler or guys who can't even score in the double digits. At any rate, you and GMR shouldn't even be in this discussion, because your bias against small, skilled players doesn't allow you to think clearly. Its like arguing about same-sex marriage with a Christian conservative. Edited July 2, 2009 by YoungGuns1340 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soonboomer 31 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 Larionov was a Hall of Famer and a great centerman on our team. Hudler is s*** compared to Larionov, even when Igor was in his early 40's. Only because Igor had such grit and was able to protect our star players. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
datsyuk1340 0 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 holland sign hudler to a 1.7 million for 3 years Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
