Guest micah Report post Posted July 2, 2009 At any rate, you and GMR shouldn't even be in this discussion, because your bias against small, skilled players doesn't allow you to think clearly. Its like arguing about same-sex marriage with a Christian conservative. Okay, you're saying that people with strong, deeply held oppinions shouldn't be allowed in discussions? Why? If arguing about same-sex marriage with a Christian conservative is no good, then arguing same sex marriage with those who are strongly in favor of same sex marriage must also be no good....which leaves the rest of the population, those who just don't give a s*** either way, to be the only ones to discuss the matter, which they won't, because hey, American Idol is coming up next. Maybe the Hudler debate should be left to people who don't even watch hockey, just to make sure no bias creeps in... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 Okay, you're saying that people with strong, deeply held oppinions shouldn't be allowed in discussions? Why? If arguing about same-sex marriage with a Christian conservative is no good, then arguing same sex marriage with those who are strongly in favor of same sex marriage must also be no good....which leaves the rest of the population, those who just don't give a s*** either way, to be the only ones to discuss the matter, which they won't, because hey, American Idol is coming up next. Maybe the Hudler debate should be left to people who don't even watch hockey, just to make sure no bias creeps in... No. This isn't about being against one thing or another. This about being blinded by your philosophy that you can't ignore it enough to open up your eyes to the other aspects of the debate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C20lw 0 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 I love having Hudler on the team. I understand we can use the cap money on a player in their prime right now, or with more potential. BUT I swear ive said this in another thread, if we have the cap space and need a forward that we know can produce and has been improving why not keep him. If he goes to another team, I hope he will still be Happy Hudler. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest micah Report post Posted July 2, 2009 How would you like someone that you don't know saying crap like that to your wife....it's called sexual harrasment How would I feel about someone on the internet saying that to my wife? I wouldn't care. It's the internet. She wouldn't care either. She's thick skinned and doesn't get her feelings hurt by e-insults. If I wanted some dainty little flower in my life I would have married Jiri Hudler. I don't like Hudler. He's a soft mini-Euro who hides behind a visor and is incapable of hitting. He is also the very opposite of funny when he cracks wise. That said, I hope he stays around. He scores at a nice clip, I'm happy with him on the 3rd line - especially if he'll take less money to stay here and we're able to find some muscle to play next to him. This is a test of Lidstrom's leadership. It is in the team's best interest for Hudler to stay here and take less money. That's part of what leaders do, right? Inspire those around them to want to stay, because they have something special? Huds has been in Detroit long enough to know how special the organisation is and to have seen the way other teams run their ships. If he wants to go after big money, good ridance. If he wants to stay, take less money to continue playing the parts of the game he plays well despite his size, great. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest micah Report post Posted July 2, 2009 No. This isn't about being against one thing or another. This about being blinded by your philosophy that you can't ignore it enough to open up your eyes to the other aspects of the debate. fair enough. Certainly some proponents of *** marriage are so blinded by their philosophies too, right? And certainly some of the pro-Huddler slappies are too, right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 (edited) fair enough. Certainly some proponents of *** marriage are so blinded by their philosophies too, right? And certainly some of the pro-Huddler slappies are too, right? No. You clearly don't understand the analogy. A proponent of *** marriage is not blinded by an ulterior belief system, i.e. Christianity. Thats the point. Arguing with someone who already has their mind made up about soft, skilled Euros without from the beginning is akin to arguing about same-sex marriage with a Christian conservative because they've never been open to the alternative. Understand, now? And a pro-Hudler "slappy"? Like me? The one has has made trade proposals including Jiri Hudler? The one who said Jiri Hudler won't be a Wing if he wants more than 2.5M? Yeah, I'm so blinded. If anything I'm one of the few on this board who has been able to strike a balance in the Hudler debate. More like, I dont see the point of dropping a 57 point guy who might be willing to take 2.5M or slightly less to stay here when 2.5M doesn't even get you Sami Pahlsson and his 20 points. And I like Sami Pahlsson, too. If the Wings somehow managed to flip Jiri Hudler for Curtis Clencross or Rene Bourque, I'd be ecstatic. But until that happens, I'll stick with Hudler + Leino + Grinder, thanks. Edited July 2, 2009 by YoungGuns1340 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 Hudler at $2.5m is a pretty incredible bargain for a guy who is most likely going to put up 60+ points next year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C20lw 0 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 Hudler at $2.5m is a pretty incredible bargain for a guy who is most likely going to put up 60+ points next year. +1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest micah Report post Posted July 2, 2009 No. You clearly don't understand the analogy. A proponent of *** marriage is not blinded by an ulterior belief system, i.e. Christianity. Thats the point. Arguing with someone who already has their mind made up about soft, skilled Euros without from the beginning is akin to arguing about same-sex marriage with a Christian conservative because they've never been open to the alternative. Understand, now? No I don't. I know plenty of *** marriage advocates who "already have their mind made up" about how they feel about it and are not open to hearing other points of view. It certainly goes both ways. Also, in what ways is the Christian belief system "ulterior" in the scenerio you mention? Are you talking about secret-Christians or something? And a pro-Hudler "slappy"? Like me? Where on earth did I imply that you were anything? I was merely pointing out that there are pro and anti Hudler fanatics, and that both seem equally niggardly in their critical thought expendatures. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedWingsFanatic 4 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 What the HELL is going on in this thread? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
55fan 5,133 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 What the HELL is going on in this thread? We're discussing the merits of keeping Hudler vs finding someone else who can fill his skates. We're just doing it LGW style. BTW, after re-reading my previous post, I realize that it seems that I think that Hudler could be quite easily replaced. I do not think that he's a cog in the Winged Wheel that can just be thrown out. I just think that we can find someone -dare I say it?- grittier to do his job and hopefully put up points (although not likely as many) for less than what it will take to keep him. If we can't find that someone, then Hudler is welcome to stay as far as I'm concerned. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest micah Report post Posted July 2, 2009 What the HELL is going on in this thread? People are talking at eachother out of boredom, because the Wings aren't doing anything right now. Get used to it, don't expect anything different until Traverse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 (edited) If Hudler is willing to sign for less than $3m you have to fit him in somehow. The Wings have a lot of offense to make up, and Filppula is not the one who is going to be doing it. Leino should be able to help, but he is actually older than Hudler, and accomplished far less. Hudler, alone, can make a 3rd or 4th line a consistent scoring threat... that is your downside. Upside is he gets paired with Franzen and sets him up for 40+ goals, potting 20+ goals of his own. Edited July 2, 2009 by egroen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EuroTwin 240 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 What the HELL is going on in this thread? Not even God knows anymore. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uk_redwing 495 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 We dont have enough cap room to re-sign him and have the depth we need. I wont be happy if he returns, nothing against him personally, but his lack of any defensive skills and small size really do get annoying sometimes. As do his lack of even strength goals. Id rather take the draft picks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titanium2 867 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 Understand, now? He really lost me when he said he grew up under the supervision of white supremacists. Even if that was a joke. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titanium2 867 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 The choice is yours. Thank you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shoreline Report post Posted July 2, 2009 Who the f*** cares if they are more useful at even strength? The point is Hudler puts up points at even strength AND on the powerplay. Its not like we have to pick between one of Cleary, Filppula, and Hudler. We're choosing between Hudler or guys who can't even score in the double digits. At any rate, you and GMR shouldn't even be in this discussion, because your bias against small, skilled players doesn't allow you to think clearly. Its like arguing about same-sex marriage with a Christian conservative. Burn. And so true. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dimaline312000 51 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 I haven't read through this whole thread so I'm not sure if anyone has asked this or said this or whatever but; what happens if we don't keep Hudler? Personally I would definetly like to keep him but he is a Free Agent even if he is Resticted we still may lose him. What do you think would be our game-plan if we did indeed part ways with Jiri Hudler? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titanium2 867 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 Burn. And so true. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shoreline Report post Posted July 2, 2009 I'd say they remind me of this, and this method of fighting cancer.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedWings Gone Wild 6 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 (edited) I really don't understand the thought process behind being unwilling to pay 2.5 million for one of the only guys we have not looking 30 or 40 right in the face... You want to add grit to the lineup? Fine by me, but do so by cutting ties with older players long past their prime... not with young guys who put up decent offense (offense, btw, is what we have been losing this offseason, not defense)... Who do you really think is lining up for 2.5 a year with any kind of tallent anyways? Signing Hudler doesn't hurt us in the Cap department, because we have numerous expendible pieces that can (NAY, should) be traded away. Lilja and/or Lebda are both pretty useless, and our top 5 is set in stone with Lids, Rafalski, Ericsson, Kronwall, and Stuart. Maltby has been worthless for the past 4 seasons (in that time he hasn't scored more than 11 points, and has been in the negative +/- every season). I'd hate to get rid of guys like Draper or Maltby due to their long tenure with the franchise, but as long as we're being cold and pragmatic in dialogue when deciding what players are unecessary, we must be honest in saying that, for the price, Hudler is far more valuable than Draper, Maltby, Lebda, Lilja, and probably even Homer (when you begin factoring in the injuries and wear and tear on his body, he has been looking older out there than Cheli). If we want to talk about our unsigned boys, then Hudler is again more important than Leino (youtube hit count aside) and/or Samuelsson.. Yes, I'm aware of the difference in cash and cap we're discussing here, and Hudler will cost more to keep than Lilja/Lebda combined, but if Draft Picks or a few Grit guys are your objective, better to get them through trading away some of the fat to teams that either need the depth or some leadership from veteran cup winners, than getting rid of one of the sole young guys we actually have.. Edited July 2, 2009 by RedWings Gone Wild Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titanium2 867 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 I'd say they remind me of this, and this method of fighting cancer.. Sometimes I really question the age of posters like that. The scary thing is, in their case, they're actually among the older adults on this forum. I'm honestly scared that I'm going to be that stupid and stubborn when I'm their age. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HudlerFanatic 4 Report post Posted July 2, 2009 (edited) What Red Wings Gone Wild said.... Edited July 2, 2009 by HudlerFanatic Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest micah Report post Posted July 2, 2009 He really lost me when he said he grew up under the supervision of white supremacists. Even if that was a joke. Who grew up under the supervision of white supremecists? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites