Hudler files for arbitration

[egroen 384]

Another thing I noticed... Your signature says you think Red Kelly and Larry Aurie's numbers belong in the rafters, however your profile says you are 33 years old. Red Kelly's career ended in 1967. Larry Aurie's career ended respectively in 1944, which means you have seen neither of them play.

I bring this up because I think it further portrays how much stock you put into highlights and statistics. There is so much more to hockey than that. The game is played at both ends of the ice. Like I said earlier, you just cant have enough players that do the little things to help you win. Filppula is much more of a complete player than Hudler. It really is night and day.

You're right -- I only look at stats and never read anything about those players at the time.

I have no idea that when a young Gordie Howe joined the team, several members of the media asked Jack Adams if he could be "the next Larry Aurie'. i never knew Red Kelly, despite being a multiple-time Lady Byng winner was actually a Golden Gloves boxer.

You are looking at players in a vacuum and not looking at them in context. Flip is a redundant commodity on this time while Hudler has unique skills this team is lacking. Flip provides a hefty return if you lose him, while Hudler yields absolutely nothing. You have given none of this your consideration -- and yes, I am willing to bet Holland has. Filppula does a lot of "little things" that a winning team needs, but so does Hudler -- and amongst those "little things" Hudler does much better than Filppula are passing and goalscoring.

[egroen 384]

Also, in case you missed it.

One of the reasons we manhandled Chicago in the playoffs is because we have guys like Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Filppula, Cleary as opposed to Kane, Toews, Versteeg,

We do it at both ends of the ice. I cant believe you just said you'd rather have a one-way player over a two-way player.

And how many players like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Cleary and Filppula can a team afford before it has to consider cheaper one-way players?

Kopecky is a much more "complete" two-way player than Hudler (or Leino) -- would you prefer Kopecky over Hudler (or Leino) as well?

I want lots and lots of two-way players -- lucky for me, Detroit already has them in spades and there are more on the way coming.

Once you have that core of two-way players, you better find yourself some players that can still provide high-end offensive or defensive talent, at a lesser price (and one-way players are the way to do it).

Edited July 7, 2009 by egroen

[titanium2 867]

Also, in case you missed it.

One of the reasons we manhandled Chicago in the playoffs is because we have guys like Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Filppula, Cleary as opposed to Kane, Toews, Versteeg,

We do it at both ends of the ice. I cant believe you just said you'd rather have a one-way player over a two-way player.

He's worried that the Wings won't be able to outscore their opponents next year, which was what got them through this year. With Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Hossa, Lidstrom, Rafalski and Kronwall to start, why wouldn't want to just outscore everybody for every game? If you want points, then yeah, at this point, like it or not, Hudler is more of a proven commodity. Not an unreasonable position to take.

However, Kenny just said in an interview that they plan on playing more of a defensive style, perhaps with emphasis on the little things that helped make 07-08 so special.

[egroen 384]

He's worried that the Wings won't be able to outscore their opponents next year, which was what got them through this year. With Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Hossa, Lidstrom, Rafalski and Kronwall to start, why wouldn't want to just outscore everybody for every game? If you want points, then yeah, at this point, like it or not, Hudler is more of a proven commodity. Not an unreasonable position to take.

However, Kenny just said in an interview that they plan on playing more of a defensive style, perhaps with emphasis on the little things that helped make 07-08 so special.

07-08 still had Holmstrom, Samuelsson and Hudler -- all primarily offensive players.

[titanium2 867]

And how many players like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Cleary and Filppula can a team afford before it has to consider cheaper one-way players?

Do you consider Huds as cheap for a one-way player at 3-4 million?

[wingsownnhl43 14]

I can assure you that Holland hasnt looked into trading Filppula. Quite simply, if he has, he'd be gone. If Holland called another GM to talk about Filppula, he'd be gone in a New York minute. I'm done debating this as it really isnt a debate amongst the informed. The fact is you're in the vast minority that believe Hudler is better. And the fact that you suggest Red Kelly and Larry Aurie should have their number retired without having watching them play speaks volume into how little stock you put into the actual gameplay. Hudler is flashy and a highly skilled offensive talent, Ill give you that. But, a one-way talent is much more replaceable than the all around type in my opinion. To me, there arent as many players that buy into the playing atboth ends of the ice. That is why the Wings have been so successful. Our players play at both ends, and the majority of other teams top players do not.

[Opie 308]

The point is rather moot as Hudler filed for Arbitration he is not getting traded, he is pretty much gonna have to be a wing. So if one of them needs to go only one can go. Flip!

Not that I prefer either over the other really, they both bring something different, like Z and Dats both bring something different.

In Kenny I Trust.

This is Stevie v Feds becomes Dats v Zetterberg becomes Hudler vs Flip.

Edited July 7, 2009 by Opie

[wingsownnhl43 14]

And how many players like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Cleary and Filppula can a team afford before it has to consider cheaper one-way players?

Kopecky is a much more "complete" two-way player than Hudler (or Leino) -- would you prefer Kopecky over Hudler (or Leino) as well?

I want lots and lots of two-way players -- lucky for me, Detroit already has them in spades and there are more on the way coming.

Once you have that core of two-way players, you better find yourself some players that can still provide high-end offensive or defensive talent, at a lesser price (and one-way players are the way to do it).

Cheaper players like Hudler, who are asking for more money than Flip?

[titanium2 867]

The point is rather moot as Hudler filed for Arbitration he is not getting traded, he is pretty much gonna have to be a wing. So if one of them needs to go only one can go.

Not really. It is possible to trade at some point during the arbitration process.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

The point is rather moot as Hudler filed for Arbitration he is not getting traded, he is pretty much gonna have to be a wing. So if one of them needs to go only one can go. Flip!

Not that I prefer either over the other really, they both bring something different, like Z and Dats both bring something different.

In Kenny I Trust.

This is Stevie v Feds becomes Dats v Zetterberg becomes Hudler vs Flip.

Well then Hudler better agree to a contract of $2.0 or less, anyting more and we won't have a complete forward lineup and we'll be right up against the Cap...

if he actually gets to his arbitration hearing he will be awarded $3.0 or more and then Holland just has to say no and he is UFA to go where he wants. Hudler is a greedy money hungry chump that would rather have a huge payday than win!

(you're right, this is sounding like Fedorov & Hossa too! If Fedorov and Hossa are chumps, then Hudler is worse than them all!)

I am tired of explaning it, maybe I am not getting it, but Hudler cannot sign here for more than $2.0m without trading more than Lebda or Meech. Hudler would make 10 forwards, we need 13! I am sure Holland is doing the right thing, but I seriously hope we don't go into the season with ONLY Meech backing up forwards and defense AND be up against the cap... Hudler is not that important to hold on to... Best case scenario, he signs a 1 year $1.5 - $2.0 contract and gets his payday next off season or just leaves. Worst case Holland pays him $2.5 or more and we have NO depth for the season...

[WingZNut13 99]

We all know Holland is a Genius! I think they get something worked out in the next week or so.

I just hope Hudler isn't a greedy bastard and decides he wants money instead of a great chance to play for the best franchise in professional sports!

[egroen 384]

Do you consider Huds as cheap for a one-way player at 3-4 million?

I do at $4m but would hope to get him at closer to $3m --- take a look at some of the players who put up the same amount of points last year as Hudler:

Jiri Hudler 57 pts 13:39 ATOI

Olli Jokinen 57 pts 18:53 ATOI $5.2557m

Milan Michalek 57 pts 18:27 ATOI $4.333m

Scott Gomez 58 pts 21:03 ATOI $7.357m

Kristian Huselius 56 pts 19:31 ATOI $4.75m

Chris Drury 56 pts 20:14 ATOI $7.05m

Ryan Smyth 59 pts 20:17 ATOI $7.25m

Pavol Demitra 53 pts 17:28 ATOI $4m

That many points, with that little of playing time is extremely rare -- especially at close to $3m a year. Whether he is a one-way player or not.

Hudler is extremely unique.

[egroen 384]

I can assure you that Holland hasnt looked into trading Filppula. Quite simply, if he has, he'd be gone. If Holland called another GM to talk about Filppula, he'd be gone in a New York minute. I'm done debating this as it really isnt a debate amongst the informed. The fact is you're in the vast minority that believe Hudler is better. And the fact that you suggest Red Kelly and Larry Aurie should have their number retired without having watching them play speaks volume into how little stock you put into the actual gameplay. Hudler is flashy and a highly skilled offensive talent, Ill give you that. But, a one-way talent is much more replaceable than the all around type in my opinion. To me, there arent as many players that buy into the playing atboth ends of the ice. That is why the Wings have been so successful. Our players play at both ends, and the majority of other teams top players do not.

Heh... more of this "informed" club I am apparently not a member of?

The Red Wings have not once iced a team of entirely two-way players...even without the cap.

You quite simply do not have a clue.

So I can not argue the merits of of players unless I have seen them play live? Really?

I'm sorry but this 'informed" club is starting to sound more and more like it meets up in the tree house in your backyard.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

I do at $4m but would hope to get him at closer to $3m

Hudler is extremely unique.

just where do you plan on getting the cap space to give him "close" to $3m, out of your ass?

We cannot even give him $2.5 without handcuffing this team. NOT ENOUGH MONEY TO ICE A FULL TEAM...

Hudler better be unique in the way that he signs a deal between $1.5 and $2.0 so he can play on a winnig team that actually has 13 forwards and 7 defensmen in stead of 11 forwards and 8 defensmen...

I don't care if Hudler is worth $10million on the open market, we need to fill 3 forwards postions with roughly $2.5 million dollars, if he wants money, he needs to move on or give us a discount for one season and wait until there is more ap available for him...

[egroen 384]

just where do you plan on getting the cap space to give him "close" to $3m, out of your ass?

We cannot even give him $2.5 without handcuffing this team. NOT ENOUGH MONEY TO ICE A FULL TEAM...

Hudler better be unique in the way that he signs a deal between $1.5 and $2.0 so he can play on a winnig team that actually has 13 forwards and 7 defensmen in stead of 11 forwards and 8 defensmen...

I don't care if Hudler is worth $10million on the open market, we need to fill 3 forwards postions with roughly $2.5 million dollars, if he wants money, he needs to move on or give us a discount for one season and wait until there is more ap available for him...

If Hossa had signed, Filppula would have been traded.

i would also trade Filppula to keep Hudler, but that may not be necessary.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

If Hossa had signed, Filppula would have been traded.

i would also trade Filppula to keep Hudler, but that may not be necessary.

Well at least that would clear the room. I wouldn't, but that is me, BUT at least you are not like the other Hudler-maniacs living the pipedream that we can trade only Lebda or Meech and still sign Hudler.

[wingsownnhl43 14]

I do at $4m but would hope to get him at closer to $3m --- take a look at some of the players who put up the same amount of points last year as Hudler:

Jiri Hudler 57 pts 13:39 ATOI

Olli Jokinen 57 pts 18:53 ATOI $5.2557m

Milan Michalek 57 pts 18:27 ATOI $4.333m

Scott Gomez 58 pts 21:03 ATOI $7.357m

Kristian Huselius 56 pts 19:31 ATOI $4.75m

Chris Drury 56 pts 20:14 ATOI $7.05m

Ryan Smyth 59 pts 20:17 ATOI $7.25m

Pavol Demitra 53 pts 17:28 ATOI $4m

That many points, with that little of playing time is extremely rare -- especially at close to $3m a year. Whether he is a one-way player or not.

Hudler is extremely unique.

Every point made during this thread has flown straight over your head.

Edited July 7, 2009 by wingsownnhl43

[LeftWinger 4,961]

Question: What would be better for a Stanley Cup run? Hudler at $3.0m or Rob Neidermayer at $2.5M?

[deetroit dario 27]

this speculation is lazy and it sucks....

[egroen 384]

Question: What would be better for a Stanley Cup run? Hudler at $3.0m or Rob Neidermayer at $2.5M?

That should be an easy answer to anyone: Hudler

R. Neidermayer is Anaheim's Draper (currently) --> paid way too much for what he brings. Those type of layers fall from trees.

Edited July 7, 2009 by egroen

[egroen 384]

Every point made during this thread has flown straight over your head.

Yeah, yeah, yeah -- I get you -- two-way play trumps all.

Kopecky is a better two-way player than Ovechkin, blah blah blah....

Any team that employs a one-way player sucks -- never mind that Detroit has ALWAYS employed numerous one-way players....

[LeftWinger 4,961]

Does anyone remember what the process was called when teams used to be able to demand players in return for signing FA's? Like when Pronger signed in St. Louis Hartford was awarded Shanahan in return and when we signed Troy Crowder, even though they asked for Probert in return, Jersey was awarded Dave Barr and Randy McKay... It was like some kind of trade arbitrator or something, but I just cannot remember the term used when the team ask for a player and either received him or was awarded something more evenly exchanged...

[LeftWinger 4,961]

That should be an easy answer to anyone: Hudler

R. Neidermayer is Anaheim's Draper (currently) --> paid way too much for what he brings. Those type of layers fall from trees.

ok, Hudler (RFA) $3.0m or Latendresse (RFA) last year made $880,000, would you give him $2.0 to come here? He had 26 points in 56 games, if he had played 82 games he may be near 57 points that Hudler had.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

He had 26 points in 56 games, if he had played 82 games he may be near 57 points that Hudler had.

May be near? If you do the math it's 38 over 82.

And one of the reasons his contract is so small is because it was an Entry Level deal. He's an RFA this season and he's due a raise.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

May be near? If you do the math it's 38 over 82.

And one of the reasons his contract is so small is because it was an Entry Level deal. He's an RFA this season and he's due a raise.

oh, I know he is due a raise, I think I gave him one at $2.5m (which would still be hurting us.) Do you tink he'll get more than $2.5?