Kris Draper

[wingsownnhl43 14]

This might actually be one of the better strengths. How many guys have joined the team or re-signed stating the "loyalty" factor seeing that they could be in one place for a long time, instead of moving around a lot.

I agree with manoir. It is definitely a weakness. Im not saying we would have won the cup if Abdelkader had been left in over Maltby, but it did make us a worse team as we werent putting out the best possible roster.

[ben_usmc 253]

Are we honestly going to compare the short 3 seasons that Robert Lang spent or the 5 seasons up and down to and from the minors for Jason Williams, to the careers of both Kris Draper, 15 seasons, and Kirk Maltby, 14 seasons? Seriously? If you are going to argue the facts, which is fine, at least use the old apples to apples method and not just random thoughts.

P.S. Bertuzzi was a mistake. Most if not all Wings fans agree.

you honestly can't see my point? Obviously I said a some just didn't mesh, and OTHERS are past there usefulness Draper and Maltby. I'm sorry if I think that we shouldn't keep people on the team for sentimental value, I mean silly me thinking that the cup is more important then letting Maltby, Draper, Chelios, or whoever the f*** else decides they went to play well beyond there worth just keep our youth in the minors or get picked up on waivers, keep living off past success though. That is my point.

I'm not asking for mass turnover but to say Maltby or Draper shown there worth for even 5 consecutive games is insane, not either one has even played decent defense much less chipped it much offensively; save 1 goal by Draper. I appreciate what each has done but there is a time when you need to realize you are burdon to the team not a help, stevie y felt he was going that route, Shanny felt the same, what is so absurd about thinking Draper and Maltby should also?

Edited July 12, 2009 by ben_usmc

[Manoir 70]

We have to look at it as a family rather than a cutthroat business that some other organizations make it. This is what sets the Wings apart.

I believe the Wings required a deposit on next seasons tickets for some people wanting to purchase Stanley Cup Finals tickets, if only they showed as much loyalty to the fans as they do to their players.

As for this whole well the loyalty the Wings show to their players translates into players accepting less to play in Detroit, it is not as widespread as it may seem. Zetterberg and Franzen did sign for less than their market worth, but they both signed for 12 years which does negate the positives somewhat. Basically the cap hit when they are in their late 30's early 40's won't look quite as good as it does now. I'm not sure about Zetterberg, but I think Franzen's contract is front-loaded so that makes the discount he took even smaller. Datsyuk's contract was very expensive at the time of signing as the cap was smaller. Rafalski also signed for 6 million when the cap was smaller, not exactly a discount. Hossa left for 1 million more than he was getting offered in Detroit. I think the hometown discount has been blown way out of proportion.

[wingsownnhl43 14]

I believe the Wings required a deposit on next seasons tickets for some people wanting to purchase Stanley Cup Finals tickets, if only they showed as much loyalty to the fans as they do to their players.

As for this whole well the loyalty the Wings show to their players translates into players accepting less to play in Detroit, it is not as widespread as it may seem. Zetterberg and Franzen did sign for less than their market worth, but they both signed for 12 years which does negate the positives somewhat. Basically the cap hit when they are in their late 30's early 40's won't look quite as good as it does now. I'm not sure about Zetterberg, but I think Franzen's contract is front-loaded so that makes the discount he took even smaller. Datsyuk's contract was very expensive at the time of signing as the cap was smaller. Rafalski also signed for 6 million when the cap was smaller, not exactly a discount. Hossa left for 1 million more than he was getting offered in Detroit. I think the hometown discount has been blown way out of proportion.

Totally Agree. I dont know how more people dont see this. Not to mention Samuelsson, Hudler, and Kopecky showed us a bunch of loyalty. Dont forget about former star players Shanahan, and Fedorov showing us loyalty.

[Jaymz99 2]

The great thing is it is not a fantasy hockey league and the players will go when they go. Complaining about it in every other post gets old after a while. The hometown discount, while it has been getting less, is still there and is proven by the crap players on other teams that command 7+ million for half the skills of some of our players. It is that simple. Malts, as stated in a previos post by myself, has seen his better days with only 11 points this last regular season. Draper brings alot to the team still, both on and off the ice, but his numbers outside of faceoffs, haven't been the best at 17 points regular season. My point is you have the mentality of out with the old and in with the new. Again, I agree that these players are at/or near the end, but you or anyone else on this board are not going to change it. They are on the roster next season, so lets hope they get goals and play well. Support your team. This means all of them. Remember when all of you were down on Cleary calling him Maltby 2.0, slow, can't skate, not producing??? I do, and then he was the golden child during the playoffs and not a peep. Fickle isn't it. I support my Wings. I support my players. If a player chooses to stick around and continue with us, I respect that player. I have the utmost respect for the Yzermans, Drapers, Maltbys and not for team hopping stanley cup chasers. I supported Hossa while he was here. I cheered for him because he was on the team. I had no respect for him because he didn't earn it yet. And he showed his true colors at the end of the season, like we didn't know that was coming. It is not sentimental, these are your hometown heroes, team players, and leaders. Not these one year contract hotshots. We don't want to buy our Champinship like the Yankees. We build the team, train the team, craft the team, and win.

And for the Stanley Cup ticket comment, tickets were sold like every other year, through the zoo that is ticketmaster. If you didn't get tickets, sorry for your luck. Maybe ticketmaster should do something about the douchebags that sit in their moms basement at age 40, an scoop up tons of tickets, only to sell them at an increased value back to the fans on eBay or Stubhub. Oh wait they created TicketExchange, which is aiding in the problem. The deposit for next seasons tickets was only for seats that season ticket holders opted out of for the playoffs. If they were not taken, those were sold the day of, to the public via the box office. So it is not like they were holding thousands of tickets ransom for a season ticket contract. Just an incentive of a few hundred tickets.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

He was hurt, and was never playing at 100% in the playoffs. When he's healthy I think he's still very good, but the problem is the older he gets the more frequently he's hurt.

If he could stay healthy this year, that would be wonderful, but don't count it. Fingers crossed.

All very well but I think it's painfully obviously he will never be 100% for the playoffs because of the sacrafices me makes during the regular season. He's always going to be banged up and therefore unable to produce.

[Manoir 70]

Draper brings alot to the team still, both on and off the ice, but his numbers outside of faceoffs, haven't been the best at 17 points regular season.

Another thing the Wings have totally overdone, the whole experience factor. Babcock admitted the Wings were nervous in Anaheim for game 6 with a chance to clinch, Babcock took a timeout twice in Pittsburgh to calm his team down when the crowd was getting to them, good thing all that experience came in handy. The Penguins had young guys like Talbot out there with a minute left in game 7 of the Finals, the Wings think if you don't have 17 years of NHL experience you can't handle pressure situations. The Penguins had only 2 guys I think who can be classified as veterans, Guerin and Gonchar. Didn't seem to hurt them.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

NOPE

Edited July 13, 2009 by Detroit # 1 Fan

[imisssergei 0]

Above average faceoff man and 2-way forward describes every redwings forward

Really?

Hossa

Hudler

Holmstrom

Kopecky

McCarty

Maltby

Samuelsson

If by better than average you mean 50%+ none of these guys fit the mold. Yes, most of them aren't with the Wings anymore, but stats are stats.

[chrisdetroit 189]

This is the Wings greatest weakness-hanging onto players for too long. We've seen it many times over the past deacde or so. Remember when they were chasing Shanahan around in 2006, good thing he didn't sign because the Wings were willing to offer 4-5 mil per year. I'm not sure why they do this. Look at the Penguins as a contrast. Sykora wasn't playing well so he was benched the entire playoffs. The Wings would never do that to an established player and it hurts them. I mean evryone could see that Holmstrom was struggling mightly in the playoffs, not only was he not benched he was on when they pulled the goalie in game 7.

huh? how many games did Cheli play in the playoffs? Did you watch?

[chrisdetroit 189]

Another thing the Wings have totally overdone, the whole experience factor. Babcock admitted the Wings were nervous in Anaheim for game 6 with a chance to clinch, Babcock took a timeout twice in Pittsburgh to calm his team down when the crowd was getting to them, good thing all that experience came in handy. The Penguins had young guys like Talbot out there with a minute left in game 7 of the Finals, the Wings think if you don't have 17 years of NHL experience you can't handle pressure situations. The Penguins had only 2 guys I think who can be classified as veterans, Guerin and Gonchar. Didn't seem to hurt them.

What are you talking about? You only get 1 time out per game. The Pens only have a couple of guys that are veterans so they had no choice. And the Wings were all over the Pens at the end of game 7. They only hung on due to a couple of fortunate bounces/breaks.

Ericsson was playing instead of Cheli wasn't he. And Helm was playing too and they are both rookies.

[Jaymz99 2]

Another thing the Wings have totally overdone, the whole experience factor. Babcock admitted the Wings were nervous in Anaheim for game 6 with a chance to clinch, Babcock took a timeout twice in Pittsburgh to calm his team down when the crowd was getting to them, good thing all that experience came in handy. The Penguins had young guys like Talbot out there with a minute left in game 7 of the Finals, the Wings think if you don't have 17 years of NHL experience you can't handle pressure situations. The Penguins had only 2 guys I think who can be classified as veterans, Guerin and Gonchar. Didn't seem to hurt them.

So you're a Pens fan?! Well, the bandwagon is waiting for you. This was a case where the better team didn't win. Wings healthy would have been another cup. s*** happens! We can't complain. We made it to game 7. I'm pretty sure 28 other teams would trade places with us. Inexperienced young blood gets you only so far. The Pens spent how many years scraping the bottom to get here, and for how long? Again, people here think they know exactly what to do and when to do it. The NHL is calling boys, step up. I look forward to the future LGW GM's and coaches.

[Manoir 70]

huh? how many games did Cheli play in the playoffs? Did you watch?

It is true that Chelios didn't play, of course keeping him around cost the Wings a perfectly good defenceman in Kyle Quincey.

[Manoir 70]

What are you talking about? You only get 1 time out per game. The Pens only have a couple of guys that are veterans so they had no choice. And the Wings were all over the Pens at the end of game 7. They only hung on due to a couple of fortunate bounces/breaks.

Ericsson was playing instead of Cheli wasn't he. And Helm was playing too and they are both rookies.

Two different games, I believe it was games 3 and 6 where Babcock had to call a timeout to calm his supposedly veteran team down.

Ericsson was playing because Lilja was hurt, had that injury not happened Lilja would have been in the lineup in the playoffs. Helm was playing in the playoffs, you'd think with the playoffs he had in '08 that he would have been in the lineup during the reg. season as well but there was no room for him since Draper and Maltby were regulars.

Edited July 12, 2009 by Manoir

[Ham on Wheels 0]

Being a kid isnt an excuse for disrespecting one of the classiest players to ever lace up the skates.

The way I see it, he is a kid sure, but he is also the captain. If you say that he is just a kid and he is too immature, then he shouldn't be the captain.

[Jaymz99 2]

If you say that he is just a kid and he is too immature, then he shouldn't be the captain.

I'll agree with that and hope someone seconds it!

[Aussie_Wing 354]

Really? Because in the most critical games of the year Drapes outscored Sammy, Hossa and Hudler. (Sorry couldnt resist, numbers make things so fun)

To your point, every grinder deal with it, he and Homer were hit the worst last year. Hopefully they'll be a little more healthy this year.

May I ask why was this directed at me? I never said anything, at all, about Draper.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

May I ask why was this directed at me? I never said anything, at all, about Draper.

s***, it was Homer you were talking about? I must've been drunk or some s***, sorry buddy!