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#21 Z and D for the C

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 10:57 PM

Who didn't know hossa was injured in the playoffs? Of course he was.

Just cause you look like the gimp don't mean you play like the gimp!


#22 flip

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 10:58 PM

QUOTE (Drake_Marcus @ July 21, 2009 - 08:55PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hey man, it's just something that tends to annoy people on forums. It's considered the equivalent of shouting. *shrugs* I'm just telling you how people likely will view it.


I honestly don't care how one line of text is received (not it's content, but it's form) by a bunch of anonymous people on the internet.

Tell me more about an online conversation "ending in tears," though. Do you really take this that seriously? Really?

#23 flip

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 10:59 PM

QUOTE (Doc Holiday @ July 21, 2009 - 08:56PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Wow haha that's hilarious!*






As unfunny as it is inapplicable (I used one line of all-caps).

#24 flip

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 11:03 PM

Anyway, rather than subject myself to DocHoliday doing the internet equivalent of writhing around on the floor with his hands over his ears screaming "IT ISN'T TRUE" repeatedly, I think I'll find something else to do.


To all of you who laid the Stanley Cup loss at Hossa's feet: enjoy the crow.

#25 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 11:03 PM

QUOTE (Doc Holiday @ July 21, 2009 - 09:53PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Most probable, yes. 100% fact, no.

If that is truely the case then Chicago should fire their team doctor for missing this before the signing. How the hell do you miss that?


Flip: You are the one acting like a child. Accusing me of things I never did, screaming and carrying on in all caps, insulting other posters, and refusing to address the fact you do not have proof, but speculation. We are aware he is injured, and we have a good idea of what the injury is. I never said he wasn't. You however do not know for a fact when the injury took place.


To be fair, it's probably tough to spot something subtle like a shoulder impingement if you're doing a cursory examination. I imagine you'd need a physiotherapist to discover something like that.

I've got a nice little shoulder impingement that's been bothering me for 3 years now. I can workout like normal, but my flexibility is significantly effected and there is a big difference in the relative strengths of my shoulders. I still can't do a flat bench press using a barbell. I've had to use dumbbells for bench ever since I messed that shoulder up. Plus I can't scratch that side of my back much at all. tongue.gif That shoulder even hangs down and forward too much, so when I'm doing deadlifts one side of the bar is noticeably hanging lower than the other. laugh.gif

Then again, I suppose it must be something your average spots doc would look for given how common this type of problem is in baseball (and I'm assuming most sports docs would treat athletes from a variety of sports).

Who knows? If I had to guess I'd say this injury would be caused by the following activities, in order of likelihood:

1) Playing NHL hockey
2) Weightlifting (as a means of maintaining his physical fitness for NHL activities, and thus part of his contract)
3) Breakdancing
4) Other non-hockey related activities.
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#26 MotorCityMadness

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 11:04 PM

this is certainly an odd change in things...maybe that is what seemed to make him seem invisible during the playoffs, but oh well he's Chicago's problem now and not ours
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#27 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 11:05 PM

QUOTE (flip @ July 21, 2009 - 09:58PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I honestly don't care how one line of text is received (not it's content, but it's form) by a bunch of anonymous people on the internet.

Tell me more about an online conversation "ending in tears," though. Do you really take this that seriously? Really?


Honestly, with me it's probably safest to assume that I'm speaking tongue-in-cheek if there's any doubt about my tone.

In fact, if someone uses the phrase "end in tears" odds are they're being factious.
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#28 Doc Holiday

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 11:08 PM

QUOTE (Drake_Marcus @ July 22, 2009 - 12:03AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To be fair, it's probably tough to spot something subtle like a shoulder impingement if you're doing a cursory examination. I imagine you'd need a physiotherapist to discover something like that.

I've got a nice little shoulder impingement that's been bothering me for 3 years now. I can workout like normal, but my flexibility is significantly effected and there is a big difference in the relative strengths of my shoulders. I still can't do a flat bench press using a barbell. I've had to use dumbbells for bench ever since I messed that shoulder up. Plus I can't scratch that side of my back much at all. tongue.gif That shoulder even hangs down and forward too much, so when I'm doing deadlifts one side of the bar is noticeably hanging lower than the other. laugh.gif

Then again, I suppose it must be something your average spots doc would look for given how common this type of problem is in baseball (and I'm assuming most sports docs would treat athletes from a variety of sports).

Who knows? If I had to guess I'd say this injury would be caused by the following activities, in order of likelihood:

1) Playing NHL hockey
2) Weightlifting (as a means of maintaining his physical fitness for NHL activities, and thus part of his contract)
3) Breakdancing
4) Other non-hockey related activities.


Your analysis makes sense, which is a good possibility to why this injury wasn't noticed by the Chicago doctor till after. He could have even been injured in game seven of the SCF. We don't know for sure, and unless he was injured the entire playoffs, we can't just let him hide behind the injury and say "It's alright Marian, nothing you could do."

A question I have, however, is did Marian suddenly tell the doctor shortly after signing the papers, or is he making up some kind of excuse as to why he told them well after becoming a Hawk? Perhaps better insurance policy in Chicago?

Also, breakdancing should be replaced with this:


Edited by Doc Holiday, 21 July 2009 - 11:10 PM.


#29 F.Michael

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 11:14 PM

QUOTE (Drake_Marcus @ July 21, 2009 - 11:03PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To be fair, it's probably tough to spot something subtle like a shoulder impingement if you're doing a cursory examination. I imagine you'd need a physiotherapist to discover something like that.

I've got a nice little shoulder impingement that's been bothering me for 3 years now. I can workout like normal, but my flexibility is significantly effected and there is a big difference in the relative strengths of my shoulders. I still can't do a flat bench press using a barbell. I've had to use dumbbells for bench ever since I messed that shoulder up. Plus I can't scratch that side of my back much at all. tongue.gif That shoulder even hangs down and forward too much, so when I'm doing deadlifts one side of the bar is noticeably hanging lower than the other. laugh.gif

Then again, I suppose it must be something your average spots doc would look for given how common this type of problem is in baseball (and I'm assuming most sports docs would treat athletes from a variety of sports).

Who knows? If I had to guess I'd say this injury would be caused by the following activities, in order of likelihood:

1) Playing NHL hockey
2) Weightlifting (as a means of maintaining his physical fitness for NHL activities, and thus part of his contract)
3) Breakdancing
4) Other non-hockey related activities.

I've had the exact same injury on my left shoulder (15 years ago - got me a cortisone injection along with physical therapy); waaay tooo much heavy weight lifting back then...Doesn't bother me when doing daily stuff - however when I go work out my left shoulder tends to stiffen up dry.gif

Sux gettin' old.

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#30 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 11:15 PM

QUOTE (Doc Holiday @ July 21, 2009 - 10:08PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He could have even been injured in game seven of the SCF. We don't know for sure, and unless he was injured the entire playoffs, we can't just let him hide behind the injury and say "It's alright Marian, nothing you could do."

Also, breakdancing should be replaced with this:



Oh I agree 100%. I don't really care all that much about his injury, if he's in the line-up he bares responsibility for the loss that's porportional to: A) His performance, B) His relative place on the team (ie. Hossa not showing up is more damaging than Hudler not showing up and one of the two is paid 7 times more than the other anyway), C) How easy/cathartic it is to blame him.

Plus, if Nick Lidstrom can have his nutsack torn open in the WCF and play all 7 games of the Finals, no one in the line-up can whine about being injured.

I mean come on- can you imagine how painful skating would be after testicular surgery? You're putting stress on week-old sutures with every single stride! Testicular sutures.
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#31 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 11:19 PM

QUOTE (F.Michael @ July 21, 2009 - 10:14PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've had the exact same injury on my left shoulder (15 years ago - got me a cortisone injection along with physical therapy); waaay tooo much heavy weight lifting back then...Doesn't bother me when doing daily stuff - however when I go work out my left shoulder tends to stiffen up dry.gif

Sux gettin' old.


I'm 25 and I have to wear a compression sleeve on my right knee and right ankle at the gym. Plus I've got scoliosis so I wear a nice weight belt when I do heavy squats (anything over 2.5 plates a side). And I've got the whole cruddy shoulder thing too. I'm anticipating a inglorious trip to old age. Hell, sometimes I feel like an old man even now. (stupid asymmetric body) laugh.gif
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#32 Detroit # 1 Fan

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 11:20 PM

I love how this story comes out for the first time on the 21st of July. Regardless, Cleary was injured too, and still produced. It isnt an excuse (as much as Wings fans wish it were in regards to the Cup)

#NOMOREKINDL


#33 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 11:29 PM

QUOTE (Detroit # 1 Fan @ July 21, 2009 - 10:20PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I love how this story comes out for the first time on the 21st of July. Regardless, Cleary was injured too, and still produced. It isnt an excuse (as much as Wings fans wish it were in regards to the Cup)


Cleary's injury was actually a bigger blow than most think since he was one of the most important all around contributors on the team this year and his play around the net was the only thing replacing Holmtrom's failure to provide that unique specialization.

All in all I think we're really lucky that Cleary's come into his own in that area of the game. Holmstrom's decline would've been much more damaging if it weren't for Cleary.

I can't wait to see how a line of Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Cleary produces once they've had a year to develop chemistry.
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#34 Z and D for the C

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 11:30 PM

QUOTE (Drake_Marcus @ July 22, 2009 - 12:15AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh I agree 100%. I don't really care all that much about his injury, if he's in the line-up he bares responsibility for the loss that's porportional to: A) His performance, B) His relative place on the team (ie. Hossa not showing up is more damaging than Hudler not showing up and one of the two is paid 7 times more than the other anyway), C) How easy/cathartic it is to blame him.

Plus, if Nick Lidstrom can have his nutsack torn open in the WCF and play all 7 games of the Finals, no one in the line-up can whine about being injured.

I mean come on- can you imagine how painful skating would be after testicular surgery? You're putting stress on week-old sutures with every single stride! Testicular sutures.


The initial impact may have hurt, but after you get the stitches, it's just skin. It wouldn't hurt more than getting stitches on your arm or something.

Just cause you look like the gimp don't mean you play like the gimp!


#35 Detroit # 1 Fan

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 11:33 PM

QUOTE (Drake_Marcus @ July 21, 2009 - 10:29PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Cleary's injury was actually a bigger blow than most think since he was one of the most important all around contributors on the team this year and his play around the net was the only thing replacing Holmtrom's failure to provide that unique specialization.

All in all I think we're really lucky that Cleary's come into his own in that area of the game. Holmstrom's decline would've been much more damaging if it weren't for Cleary.

I can't wait to see how a line of Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Cleary produces once they've had a year to develop chemistry.

His play around the net is now on par or better then Homers IMO, he cant screen and get his ass into the goalies head like Homer does, but he can tip the puck like it`s nobodys buisness. And to the bolded, I`m already calling a career year for Dano if he gets significant icetime with them, in 08 he was playing fantastic hockey and having the best year of his life (besting his numbers of the previous year in just 62 games) when he had his season ended against Toronto, and didnt play very well during the playoffs until the Finals (but hey, that`s all that mattered!)

Unlike the doom and gloomers, I`ve very excited to see how Franzen, and Cleary, and the kids step up this year

#NOMOREKINDL


#36 RedFX

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 11:38 PM

QUOTE (flip @ July 21, 2009 - 10:56PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're so desperate to save face that you're exploiting whatever iota of doubt that still exists as a last-ditch effort to one-up me. Maybe instead of faulting me for introducing some information that vindicates Hossa, you should come to grips with the fact that he left the team and that you've now lost your scapegoat.

The only person acting like a child is the one whose arguments resemble those of a child. Hint: it's not me.

Going forward, he's a pearl of wisdom: adults can use capital letters to.

If I may play devil's advocate for a second....

I think Hossa was unfairly singled out by alot of people on here. On the other hand, that doesn't erase the fact that Hossa was one of the players did not step up when we needed him to. As far as the injury, I don't think there's enough evidence out there either way to say it had an effect.
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#37 Heaton

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 11:41 PM

QUOTE (RedFX @ July 21, 2009 - 11:38PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If I may play devil's advocate for a second....

I think Hossa was unfairly singled out by alot of people on here. On the other hand, that doesn't erase the fact that Hossa was one of the players did not step up when we needed him to. As far as the injury, I don't think there's enough evidence out there either way to say it had an effect.


Agreed.

Not sure who blamed the loss solely on Hossa but he's not without blame. Dude scored 40 goals in the regular season and only managed to score 6 in the playoffs. And those 6 were only in 3 games.

If he was injured, that's unfortunate. But he was healthy enough to continue playing and healthy enough to escape any injury report in or after the playoffs. He also passed a physical.

Wait until the full story comes out to start the gotcha's.
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#38 Z and D for the C

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 11:49 PM

Are players not allowed to sign contracts unless they have a 100% clean bill of health after a physical? Or could it be possible that Chitown knew about the injury but wanted to sign him anyway. Even if he still is out the first half of the season, he's got 1..5 years left on his contract to make it worthwhile.

Just cause you look like the gimp don't mean you play like the gimp!


#39 Heaton

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 11:55 PM

QUOTE (Z and D for the C @ July 21, 2009 - 11:49PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Are players not allowed to sign contracts unless they have a 100% clean bill of health after a physical? Or could it be possible that Chitown knew about the injury but wanted to sign him anyway. Even if he still is out the first half of the season, he's got 1..5 years left on his contract to make it worthwhile.


I have no idea. All I know is that you have to pass a physical for a trade to go through and I imagine it's the same for a Free Agency signing though it could be different. If you're signing a guy to a 12 year deal you'd think they'd want him to pass a physical first. If he has a torn rotator cuff he ain't passing anything.
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#40 RedFX

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:03 AM

QUOTE (Z and D for the C @ July 21, 2009 - 11:49PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Are players not allowed to sign contracts unless they have a 100% clean bill of health after a physical? Or could it be possible that Chitown knew about the injury but wanted to sign him anyway. Even if he still is out the first half of the season, he's got 1..5 years left on his contract to make it worthwhile.

I don't think it's required in any pro league. But it's something alot of teams do before they fully commit. (which is smart)


This whole thing seems kind of strange to me. With all the scrutiny Hossa was getting during and after the finals, you'd think an injury report would come out. You never heard anything all throughout the free-agency process or in any of the press conferences.
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