Osgood.

[shadow47 1]

Their are some f'ing midnite tokers in this thread, sheesh!

Edited August 30, 2009 by shadow47

[shadow47 1]

Osgood sucks, the end.

[TheDetroitRedWings 286]

Osgood sucks, the end.

Amen.

[numberthirtynine 0]

I've been supporting Ozzie since he won me over and even suggested he should start for team Canada.

But no playoff goalie is better than Hasek. I don't go by how far the team goes, that's the TEAM, I go by how well the goalie did and how he played in spite of the team in front of him. Hasek in close games, was a wall. Hasek with a lead, was unbeatable. Hasek late in games, was inhuman. He got into a zone and he was just insane.

And anyone underrating Hasek's 2002 performance is high. That guy saved our ass. He bailed us out against VAN, COL and was a wall against CAR. Time has a way of altering peoples opinions, but at the time he was a savior. Some of he things he did on a team filled with stars went unnoticed, and it's a damn shame.

Edited August 30, 2009 by numberthirtynine

[egroen 384]

In all honesty, this is relatively new territory for Ozzie -- as I would never consider him a premier playoff goalie (instead, just a solid goalie who could find a way to win) until the past two years. Consider his regular season save % and playoffs save % vs. the league average over the two periods (numbers at even strength):

1998-2007:

Season: Osgood .913, League .916

Playoffs: Osgood .920, League .927

2008-2009:

Season: Osgood .910, League .919

Playoffs: Osgood .948, League .927

Can Osgood literally flip a switch in the playoffs? Has he become a better goalie with his change in style? Or did he simply get hot at the right moment?

Last year he was not mentally prepared to get up for the minor importance of regular season games, and the Detroit offense allowed for that to happen. Not sure we will be so lucky this year, so it becomes imperative Osgood steps it up significantly in the regular season, as well as the post-season -- he does not even have Ty Conklin to bail him out this year.

This will be a telling year for me, in regards to Osgood and the whole "is he a Hall of Famer" debate.

Edited August 30, 2009 by egroen

[truebladearmy 33]

So there are still incredibly ignorant people around here. Sad to know.

Yeah. Agree.

OP here. Was drunk when I wrote that post.

Yes, 3 rings, and my dates were off. Lol. Shutup. Beer is the devil

January 2008....

"He currently leads the NHL in GAA, is third in the league with a .925 save percentage, and has compiled a 20-3-2 record at the All-Star break. "

That was season play for 2008. The same year that we also, happened to win the cup.

2009 -- Also carried to the finals. Amazing finals stats. Conn Smythe potential, if we had won it.

So that's two years in a row....that he has carried a team to the finals. Just want to point this out.....ignoring his history, the LAST two years in a row, he got us to the finals. In 2008 our defense was amazing. Even Zetterberg came out winning Conn smythe for his defensive/offensive play.

2009, defense wasn't as great, but osgood put up big numbers once again.

How about this.....he has been the "primary" goalie for 3 detroit cup runs. All three times we made it to the finals.

Well 95-96 he played 15 finals games, winning 8, losing 7.

96-97 he backstopped Vernon. Won stanley cup...though Vernon was the main goaltender, obviously.

97-98 Stanley cup champs, Osgood as starter.

Next 3 years, played less than 10 playoff games for Detroit, each year.

Traded

07-08 Back to Wings. Stanley cup winner. Osgood took over as starter, and finished with the cup.

08-09 Took us to the finals, posted a .926 sv pct, 2.01 gaa average. Lost in game 7 of the finals. Lost final game only 2-1, against the most offensive team throughout the entire playoffs.

I'm just saying. No goaltender has been better for the Wings, in a very, very long time.

Other than Osgood, who have we won with?

Vernon. Russian five. Steve Yzerman was centering our SECOND line. Lidstrom and Murphy, Konstantinov and Fetisov as defenseman. Hell, we barely even needed a goalie on that team.

Hasek. Team chocked full of all stars. Our fourth line consisted of players with a decade already in the league. We had the most future hall of famers on our team in the NHL, at the time. We were paying players enough cash that year to have purchased an entire string of tropical islands.

Osgood has taken us to the finals two years in a row under the salary cap.

I'm just saying. Right now, pound for pound, underestimating Osgood is basically retarded.

I think the general consensus is "Can he do it again?" Well, in the last 2 years, he did it. I'm not skeptical anymore. To me, the man is the real deal.

If I minted a coin, it would say "In Osgood, we trust".

Say what you will, I think Ozzie is going to do it again. I'll eat my words if I'm wrong, but if I'm not, I'm bumping this threat come playoff time, and talking mad s*** to the naysayers

Edited August 30, 2009 by truebladearmy

[numberthirtynine 0]

Hasek. Team chocked full of all stars. Our fourth line consisted of players with a decade already in the league. We had the most future hall of famers on our team in the NHL, at the time. We were paying players enough cash that year to have purchased an entire string of tropical islands.

Osgood has taken us to the finals two years in a row under the salary cap.

Oh c'mon why do we go by these "on paper" style recollection of games? Hasek bailed our asses out that year. We were an all star team almost every year of this decade and didn't always win. The Cujo teams had no business losing to some schmucks like the Flames but it happened. Hasek could've easily, and I think should've, won the Conn Smythe. I don't care what our roster was, we were down and out and Hasek shut the door against the Nucks, The Avs especially, and the Canes when they pressed early. We would've never touched Stanley if it wasn't for him getting into that old Dom zone that no one else can do.

I've seen people suggest our 08 squad was the most stacked ever, not from a name point of view but from hard working, balance, depth and talent. And I wouldn't exactly say it isn't debatable. But Ozzie was a wall in both playoff runs and should've won this year. If we weren't screwed Ozzie would've won Conn Smythe.

Neither should be underrated.

[truebladearmy 33]

Osgood sucks, the end.

So when did we start letting the specially educated into this forum?

Here's a tip: Go bandwagon on the Pens site. You'll make a lot of friends there.

n00b.

Edited August 30, 2009 by truebladearmy

[Guest blueadams]

someone was asking about our all-time red-wings line...i spoke only of those i had seen in person:

Datsyuk/Zetterberg-Yzerman-Federov

Lidstrom-Konstantinov

MIKE VERNON.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Osgood sucks, the end.

Amen.

Nah, not really.

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

someone was asking about our all-time red-wings line...i spoke only of those i had seen in person:

Datsyuk/Zetterberg-Yzerman-Federov

Lidstrom-Konstantinov

MIKE VERNON.

I've said it once, I'll say it again... with the exception of one (and only one) playoff run, Vernon was absolutely awful in net for us. He was barely ever above a .900 save percentage, and never topped 33 games in net, because everyone in the organization had extreme doubts about him.... we got rid of him for a reason... enough with the nostalgia and rewriting of history.

[TheDetroitRedWings 286]

Nah, not really.

Yeah, really.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Yeah, really.

No, still not really.

Just because you don't like him doesn't mean that he stinks. Right now if you keep holding your position, you're going have plenty people thinking you aren't the sharpest nail in the toolbox regarding this.

And you certainly aren't.

[Broken 16 381]

I've said it once, I'll say it again... with the exception of one (and only one) playoff run, Vernon was absolutely awful in net for us. He was barely ever above a .900 save percentage, and never topped 33 games in net, because everyone in the organization had extreme doubts about him.... we got rid of him for a reason... enough with the nostalgia and rewriting of history.

Like I said before... please step away from the stats sheet.

Edited August 30, 2009 by Broken 16

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

Like I said before... please step away from the stats sheet.

Feel free to justify the opinion in some other no-stat way then, or feel free to ignore my posts.

[Broken 16 381]

Feel free to justify the opinion in some other no-stat way then, or feel free to ignore my posts.

No way. Every time you open your trap to talk about what a s***ty goalie Vernon was, I'm going to point out how important he was to the short and long term success of this franchise. Get used to it.

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

No way. Every time you open your trap to talk about what a s***ty goalie Vernon was, I'm going to point out how important he was to the short and long term success of this franchise. Get used to it.

Good to see that you can constructively add to a conversation. That being said, have i ever said he was "s***ty"? No, I have only advocated against overstating his importance with no realistic basis for doing so (i.e. in the land of data/facts/stats that frightens you oh so very much). I'm not going to waste my time with you though, since you seem intent on debating in the world of gut feelings and decade old memories.

[Broken 16 381]

Good to see that you can constructively add to a conversation. That being said, have i ever said he was "s***ty"? No, I have only advocated against overstating his importance with no realistic basis for doing so (i.e. in the land of data/facts/stats that frightens you oh so very much). I'm not going to waste my time with you though, since you seem intent on debating in the world of gut feelings and decade old memories.

Vernon mentored Ozzie. Ozzie is a great goalie and has cited Vernon many, many times as his inspiration and his teacher. Those aren't gut feelings and Osgood is still around. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure I remember Osgood mentioning Vernon in this last playoff run (might have been in 2008) as a source of inspiration. Looks like the decade old memories helped Osgood get his game in shape. Crazy, eh?

But you are right. Vernon was nothing more than a blip on Osgood's radar. Lol.

Edited August 30, 2009 by Broken 16

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

Vernon mentored Ozzie. Ozzie is a great goalie and has cited Vernon many, many times as his inspiration and his teacher. Those aren't gut feelings and Osgood is still around. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure I remember Osgood mentioning Vernon in this last playoff run (might have been in 2008) as a source of inspiration. Looks like the decade old memories helped Osgood get his game in shape. Crazy, eh?

But you are right. Vernon was nothing more than a blip on Osgood's radar. Lol.

So then by this definition Vernon is a good goalie coach... but that tells me little in terms of his value as a goaltender.. and that's the heart of the issue when we're talking about top goaltender for the Wings (which is what this conversation stemmed from initially)..

And, if subtle influence over a better player warrants placing Vernon ahead of...say... Hasek or Osgood... well, then I petition for the inclusion of Danny Gare on Detroit's all-time roster because he was such an influence over Yzerman (quoted by Yzerman too)... Without Gare, there would be no Yzerman, Yzerman wouldn't have been the great captain who attracted so many stars, therefore no cups... Therefore, Gare > Yzerman in terms of franchise importance.

[Broken 16 381]

So then by this definition Vernon is a good goalie coach... but that tells me little in terms of his value as a goaltender.. and that's the heart of the issue when we're talking about top goaltender for the Wings (which is what this conversation stemmed from initially)..

And, if subtle influence over a better player warrants placing Vernon ahead of...say... Hasek or Osgood... well, then I petition for the inclusion of Danny Gare on Detroit's all-time roster because he was such an influence over Yzerman (quoted by Yzerman too)... Without Gare, there would be no Yzerman, Yzerman wouldn't have been the great captain who attracted so many stars, therefore no cups... Therefore, Gare > Yzerman in terms of franchise importance.

How many Cups did Gare win with the Wings? Oh yea... zero. Nice analogy.

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

How many Cups did Gare win with the Wings? Oh yea... zero. Nice analogy.

Your sole answer was that Vernon mentored Ozzy, therefore he is important. By that logic Gare is just as significant because he helped instill the hardworking leadership mentality in Yzerman that would lead us to multiple cups. If impact felt after leaving a team counts for Vernon, then it should count for everyone. I don't agree with the logic, nor would I view Gare as a particularly significant piece of Detroit's recent success... just wanted to show the slippery slope of debating subjective measures such as influence over peers. Does it have a place in the discussion? Sure. Should that, coupled with a single postseason of note, be the only evidence of note in proposing placing Vernon above other Wings goalies? I find that silly.

[Broken 16 381]

Your sole answer was that Vernon mentored Ozzy, therefore he is important. By that logic Gare is just as significant because he helped instill the hardworking leadership mentality in Yzerman that would lead us to multiple cups. If impact felt after leaving a team counts for Vernon, then it should count for everyone. I don't agree with the logic, nor would I view Gare as a particularly significant piece of Detroit's recent success... just wanted to show the slippery slope of debating subjective measures such as influence over peers. Does it have a place in the discussion? Sure. Should that, coupled with a single postseason of note, be the only evidence of note in proposing placing Vernon above other Wings goalies? I find that silly.

No... my sole answer has always been that he mentored Ozzie, backstopped the Wings to a Cup AND won the Conn Smythe. Not to mention fought and beat Patrick Roy in a fight at center ice. None of these things can be described using numbers so you choose to ignore them. Whatever.

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

No... my sole answer has always been that he mentored Ozzie, backstopped the Wings to a Cup AND won the Conn Smythe. Not to mention fought and beat Patrick Roy in a fight at center ice. None of these things can be described using numbers so you choose to ignore them. Whatever.

I've acknowledged those things every time... I simply don't find them sufficient, and use stats to show that I thought he played pretty poorly up until his final playoff run with us.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Osgood sucks, the end.

You're a joke. You bashed Ozzie in seemingly every thread during the regular season, crying for Conklin to start in the playoffs. Then Ozzie turns around and is the Red Wings BEST player during the playoffs and you - among many others who ripped Ozzie constantly here - can't give any credit where it's due. You were wrong and to say Ozzie still sucks is a clear indicator that you are either a very fickle fan or you dislike Ozzie so much that you can't accept what he means to the Red Wings organization.

Unless you care to elaborate why exactly Ozzie sucks, I don't know how anyone could take you serious for offering so much with no substance.

Edited August 31, 2009 by GoWings1905

[Doc Holiday 0]

Guys if there were fewer goons in the lineup Osgood would have had much better stats.

In all seriousness, Osgood is a clutch playoff performer. The best playoff goalie? That is very debatable, and isn't really close to my opinion. And I'm a huge Osgood supporter.