Top 20 players

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Martin Brodeur.

If I had to form a new team, I would want my first spot to go to strength in net. Most ice time per game. All that.

Cool idea OP. Kills off some time before the season!

Boy did you just stir up a s*** storm.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

My vote goes to Pavel Datsyuk

Kind of hard for me to vote Lidstrom considering his age and the fact that he wasn't even voted the top dman in the league last year.

For my money I will go with the guy who is a threat to get on the scoreboard every shift along with playing superior defense. IMO, Pavel's ability to play defense, coupled with his offensive prowess and faceoff taking ability puts him ahead of Nick. The fact that he's still got many years ahead of him and seems to be at his peak whereas Lidstrom is not at his peak puts him over the top for me.

[Echolalia 2,961]

I'll keep the chatter to a minimum

1. Alex Ovechkin

So how many days will each spot be open for voting? one sounds about right.

I don't mind the chatter, debating is always fun, but I'm thinking that I will implement a put-your-decision-in-bold rule for the subsequent rounds to make it easier to tally everything up.

I'm thinking I will close voting on this round later today, depending on how the voting progresses. I want a decent sample size for each round, so I don't want to close rounds off prematurely, but at the same time I don't want to drag a round on forever to get an extra couple votes, because this could turn into a 10 year commitment.

GET THOSE VOTES IN! We're still looking for who you think is the top player!

[Buppy 1,720]

1. Lidstrom

[DetroitfortheCup 1]

1. Alexander the Great

[kidish 0]

Boy did you just stir up a s*** storm.

With my choice or just by going with a goalie in general?

I wanted to shake it up a bit.

Edited September 1, 2009 by kidish

[Konnan511 1,736]

Crosby.....God that hurts to say that....

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

Crosby.....God that hurts to say that....

Crosby might be in my top five.definitely not 1 or 2..Alexander The Great is the best player in the league in my opinion.I'd put Pavel Datsyuk at 2. Zdeo Chara at 3..to me,the rest is up for debate

[Guest micah]

Ovechkin.

[toby91_ca 620]

I think its a close race between ovechkin and datsyuk.. Ovechkins overwhelming goal scoring ability makes up for his lack of defense skill and play making ability that datsyuk has over him. Both are arguably the best puck handlers in the game. I'd give my vote to ovechkin though, theres no one else in the league who plays the game like he does. Iv'e never watched any other team where you literally jump up in your seat every time hes about to get the puck..

As for malkin i dont see him as an over-all top 10 player at all. He just gets more ice time, including power play time than any other forward in the league. His give-away numbers are just embarrassing and defense is a joke. Good defensive teams like the ducks and the wings could (and did) shut him down easily. i'd be way more scared of guys like OV, or getzlaf... Although he is still young and immature but i'd say when he turns 26-30 he will be just scary..

Using Ovechkin as the measuring stick since you chose him as the best, I think you need to back up your claims with stats before putting a player down so much:

Time on ice per game: Malkin (22:31), Ovechkin (23:00)

PP time per game: Malkin (5:33), Ovechkin (5:24)

Total giveaways: Malkin (81), Ovechkin (107)

Total takeaways: Malkin (94), Ovechkin (60)

ratio: Malkin (+13), Ovechkin (-47)

Malkin's defense isn't a joke, I've heard some argue he should be selke worthy, which I think is a joke, but he's certainly responsible and definately better defensively than Ovechkin (although this is really not arguable by stats, even though some might try).

My vote goes to Crosby, but that might change after this year. He hasn't been healthy the last couple years, even when playing, so it's been hard to judge, but even with Malkin putting up the numbers he's been putting up, opposing teams still chose to focus their best defensive players on Crosby.

[toby91_ca 620]

1. Ovechkin

Also, Datsyuk is definitely a more complete hockey player than Crosby. But it's all about your definition of best player in the league. In my definition of being the best complete player I would rank Datsyuk above Crosby. Call me biased if you want but Datsyuk's defense, faceoffs, skating, poise, and creativity are all better in my mind. The rest of their skills are up for debate.

I think I struggle a bit with Datsyuk vs. Crosby from an "overall" perspective. I can probably be convinced that Datsyuk is better overall currently....I may play too much stock in potential than I should. However, in terms of your comments above, the non-bolded attributes, other than creativity, have come with experience and I think Crosby will continue to improve in those areas over the years (already has each year he's been in the league) just as Datsyuk has. In terms of skating, this is where I disagree, I think Crosby is, hands down, a better skater.

[mmamolo 287]

I think I struggle a bit with Datsyuk vs. Crosby from an "overall" perspective. I can probably be convinced that Datsyuk is better overall currently....I may play too much stock in potential than I should. However, in terms of your comments above, the non-bolded attributes, other than creativity, have come with experience and I think Crosby will continue to improve in those areas over the years (already has each year he's been in the league) just as Datsyuk has. In terms of skating, this is where I disagree, I think Crosby is, hands down, a better skater.

We can agree to disagree on the skating. As far as they other areas Crosy can absolutely still improve, and I believe so can Datsyuk. But when we're talking about who is the best player today, to me, potential doesn't count for a whole lot. Determining who we think is the best player today is different from asking who would we build a team with to play together for a few years.

Also, to the guy who started the thread, maybe you can pick a sample size (ex. 30 votes) and each round can end once you've gotten that many votes. As opposed to random timing to end each round

[Slave 31]

Zetterberg, based only the fact that If i needed a goal or needed to keep a 1 goal lead late in the game, he is the player I would put out there, not just on the wings either if i was starting a team and could poach 1 player from any team, it would be him. Datsyuk is amazing with the puck, Ovechkin is crazy at scoring goals, Iginla leads his team with the best of them, I just think Zata puts the entire package together a little better then the rest of them.

[cjm502 165]

Using Ovechkin as the measuring stick since you chose him as the best, I think you need to back up your claims with stats before putting a player down so much:

Time on ice per game: Malkin (22:31), Ovechkin (23:00)

PP time per game: Malkin (5:33), Ovechkin (5:24)

Total giveaways: Malkin (81), Ovechkin (107)

Total takeaways: Malkin (94), Ovechkin (60)

ratio: Malkin (+13), Ovechkin (-47)

Malkin's defense isn't a joke, I've heard some argue he should be selke worthy, which I think is a joke, but he's certainly responsible and definately better defensively than Ovechkin (although this is really not arguable by stats, even though some might try).

My vote goes to Crosby, but that might change after this year. He hasn't been healthy the last couple years, even when playing, so it's been hard to judge, but even with Malkin putting up the numbers he's been putting up, opposing teams still chose to focus their best defensive players on Crosby.

I actually did the math and made a list of the NHL's top players point-per minute production.

Datsyuk was ahead of Malkin, Crosby, and Ovechkin. I will try to find my list.

Found it, I actually did point per hour production.

Datsyuk - 3.73 per hour on ice.

Malkin - 3.67

Ovechkin - 3.63

Crosby - 3.65

Kovalchuck - 3.17

If Datsyuk had as much ice time as Malkin he would have has 115 points last season. If he took as many shots as Ovechkin he would have had 68 GOALS.

I think I know who the best player in the NHL really is.

Edited September 1, 2009 by cjm502

[Echolalia 2,961]

Also, to the guy who started the thread, maybe you can pick a sample size (ex. 30 votes) and each round can end once you've gotten that many votes. As opposed to random timing to end each round

I've actually been entertaining this idea in my head. There are some issues with this, though, like what happens if there is a flurry of votes while I am off line and we end up with 45 votes instead of 30 for one round, or what happens if we can't make the quota each round. I've been thinking about it though. Right now I have 26 votes if my math is correct. I'm thinking of closing down the polls for the top spot around 4pm, but we'll see.

So get crackin with the votes

[mmamolo 287]

I've actually been entertaining this idea in my head. There are some issues with this, though, like what happens if there is a flurry of votes while I am off line and we end up with 45 votes instead of 30 for one round, or what happens if we can't make the quota each round. I've been thinking about it though. Right now I have 26 votes if my math is correct. I'm thinking of closing down the polls for the top spot around 4pm, but we'll see.

So get crackin with the votes

What you could do is have x votes per round. Once you've collected that many that's it. If ppl enter more votes for a particular round they are discarded. Also, you could reduce the sample sizes as the rounds go deeper since some ppl are bound to lose interest. Or, in addition to bolding their votes users could also number them by reading the previous posts.

For example if Round 2 opens up and I am the first to vote I simply write:

Vote 1: Player Y

then the subsequent voter writes:

Vote 2: Player Z

That way when you hit sample size x, that you've let us all know at the beginning of the round, no one will make additional votes. Plus, if you are logged out for a long time the voting can continue into subsequent rounds without you having to monitor things every few minutes.

[toby91_ca 620]

I actually did the math and made a list of the NHL's top players point-per minute production.

Datsyuk was ahead of Malkin, Crosby, and Ovechkin. I think Kovalchuck took him out of the #1 spot, but im not sure. I will try to find the list.

I don't place too much stock in per minute stats as I think it's completely unrepresentative of what a player may do if he had more or less playing time to work with.

I think if you were to do a super duper in depth study into per minute scoring I think what you would find is that a player might increase his scoring as his ice time increased, but I would bet his production per minute would decrease. I have no basis for this conclusion other than logical thinking though.

[tommingthepuck96 1]

Using Ovechkin as the measuring stick since you chose him as the best, I think you need to back up your claims with stats before putting a player down so much:

Time on ice per game: Malkin (22:31), Ovechkin (23:00)

PP time per game: Malkin (5:33), Ovechkin (5:24)

Total giveaways: Malkin (81), Ovechkin (107)

Total takeaways: Malkin (94), Ovechkin (60)

ratio: Malkin (+13), Ovechkin (-47)

Malkin's defense isn't a joke, I've heard some argue he should be selke worthy, which I think is a joke, but he's certainly responsible and definately better defensively than Ovechkin (although this is really not arguable by stats, even though some might try).

My vote goes to Crosby, but that might change after this year. He hasn't been healthy the last couple years, even when playing, so it's been hard to judge, but even with Malkin putting up the numbers he's been putting up, opposing teams still chose to focus their best defensive players on Crosby.

I dont need to back up anything. You can't put malkin in front of ovechkin based on those stats or any for that matter. Both see a ton of ice time, both turn over the puck way too much, both are highly skilled but ovechkin has a clear edge over him in my eyes.. Ovechkin is a pure goal scorer, and like someone else said scoring goals is probably the hardest thing to do in the NHL and ovechkin makes it look like shooting fish in a barrel.. Keeping in mind all malkin is known for is his offense why don't you pull up how many secondary assists accounted for malkins offensive totals last year? When you play the full 2 minutes of every power play your bound to touch the puck before it goes in the net..

Bottom line, both are known only for their offense but i'd take ovechkins goal scoring ability over malkins so called play making ability. Overall datsyuk is better than both of them but ovechkin has something else to his game that no other player has.. How you even find time to add crosby into this mix is beyond me.. But hey everyone is entitled to an opinion

[Echolalia 2,961]

I dont need to back up anything. You can't put malkin in front of ovechkin based on those stats or any for that matter. Both see a ton of ice time, both turn over the puck way too much, both are highly skilled but ovechkin has a clear edge over him in my eyes.. Ovechkin is a pure goal scorer, and like someone else said scoring goals is probably the hardest thing to do in the NHL and ovechkin makes it look like shooting fish in a barrel.. Keeping in mind all malkin is known for is his offense why don't you pull up how many secondary assists accounted for malkins offensive totals last year? When you play the full 2 minutes of every power play your bound to touch the puck before it goes in the net..

Bottom line, both are known only for their offense but i'd take ovechkins goal scoring ability over malkins so called play making ability. Overall datsyuk is better than both of them but ovechkin has something else to his game that no other player has.. How you even find time to add crosby into this mix is beyond me.. But hey everyone is entitled to an opinion

So are you changing your vote from Ovie to Dats?

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

1. A Russian - may be a bit too hard to pick from the three.

[tommingthepuck96 1]

No read the part after the bolded. Logically my vote should be datsyuk but ovechkin has a X factor to his game that no other player possess that doesnt show up on any stats sheets. Whether its energy or passion i can't really explain it, but I think OV has a very small edge over datsyuk.

Edited September 1, 2009 by tommingthepuck96

[Echolalia 2,961]

1. A Russian - may be a bit too hard to pick from the three.

C'mon, that doesn't count as a vote. You're coach of the Russians in the Olympics, its a tie game against some other team for the gold and its overtime. Who do you want on the ice the most?

No read the part after the bolded. Logically my vote should be datsyuk but ovechkin has a X factor to his game that no other player possess. Whether its energy or passion i can't really explain it, but I think OV has a very small edge over datsyuk.

Fair enough. Your vote stays where it is.

Edited September 1, 2009 by Echolalia

[Echolalia 2,961]

I actually did the math and made a list of the NHL's top players point-per minute production.

Datsyuk was ahead of Malkin, Crosby, and Ovechkin. I will try to find my list.

Found it, I actually did point per hour production.

Datsyuk - 3.73 per hour on ice.

Malkin - 3.67

Ovechkin - 3.63

Crosby - 3.65

Kovalchuck - 3.17

If Datsyuk had as much ice time as Malkin he would have has 115 points last season. If he took as many shots as Ovechkin he would have had 68 GOALS.

I think I know who the best player in the NHL really is.

is this a vote for Datsyuk?

edit: I've decided I'm going to close voting for 1st place later this evening. I'm still waiting to hit at least 30 votes, but more is better. I'm going to take two sets of data: 1 for the 1st 30 votes in each place (to keep data consistent), and an overall tally. If you haven't voted please do so. I'm looking at you titanium2, Bannedforlife, and STICK. Each of you are currently "reading" this thread and have yet to vote

Edited September 1, 2009 by Echolalia

[chrisdetroit 189]

Datsyuk ahead of Crosby? Only at LGW.

For the record, I would still say Lidstrom is number one.

There is no comparison. Datsyuk plays offense AND defense hence the last two Selke trophies sitting on his mantle.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

There is no comparison. Datsyuk plays offense AND defense hence the last two Selke trophies sitting on his mantle.

I don't think the Caps want to see Ovechkin playing defense, because he expends so much energy on the offensive side of the ice already. While I do think Datsyuk is a more complete player, that doesn't mean that he's better. Hell, Flip is a more complete 2 way player than Ovechkin. That doesn't mean he's better. It's a good assessment of a player's greatness, but shouldn't be the biggest factor to judge by any means.

Who was a better two-way player, Datsyuk or Gretzky?