72 replies to this topic

[ben_usmc]

maybe the other goalie shouldnt be a *****. i mean its not like he blind sided him he knew it was comming. there should be NO charges. im watchin the game i love be turned into a ***** sport. what happend to the good ole days. ide give my life to be able to see the game like it was in the early 90's

sure if the goalie of the other team did something besides out play him you'd have a point. But unless the goalie was cheap shotting players he has no reason why he should drop the gloves

[micah]

someone needs to just beat the living s*** out of this kid, and I mean to the point where Lilja is, what a piece of s***

I aree, the other goalie should have fought back!

[micah]

Also you make a very hypocritical statement. First you see nothing wrong with Roy did then you come back to say,"Sometimes, like in Johnny Roy v, noname goalie, one player wants a fight and the other refuses. I would have preferred that Roy merely taunted his opponent for being the only player on the ice at that time unwilling to have a little old fashioned fun." You say at one time that the goalie had it coming and is in the wrong for not wanting to fight when you, yourself, deduced that there was a more plausible alternative.

I never, ever said I don't see anything wrong with John Roy's actions. I said I don't see what the big deal is, this sort of thing happens all the time, it always has. Fighting someone who isn't prepared to and willing to fight back, whether you're McCarty or John Roy, is wrong. I don't think it warrants police involvement though.

"He fought a guy who didn't want to fight back - that's a clear instigator penalty. It is not cause for legal follow-up." Why? Just because you say A, it doesn't mean C, you need a B in there also. There have been numerous incidents where an on ice altercation has resulted in legla battles, therefore that is not a correct assessment.

There have been numerous occasions when things that I don't agree with have happened. I was giving my oppinion, and I stand by it. There are sufficient penalties for fighting in hockey. No good comes from lawsuits or citations for simple on-ice fights.

Just one more thing to add is when you say, "I would have preferred that Roy merely taunted his opponent for being the only player on the ice at that time unwilling to have a little old fashioned fun." How do you know that the other goalie was raised not to fight? Or plays the game of hockey because he merely enjoys the finesse parts of the game and not the physical aspects? If your parents raised to to respect other people and to never fight whats-so-ever, and you lived by this code for your whole life, would you let one douchebag destroy your philosophies, or would you not be able to be the bigger man and give in?

If you're parents raised you to ignore an angry guy coming at you with the clear intent of fighting you, your parents are dumb. Had the other goalie dropped his gloves and simply done his best to tie JR up and not get pummled, he probably wouldn't have been pummeled. When you stand still and let yourself get smoked...well, that's gonna hurt. You oughta at least *try* to protect yourself, right? IF that were the case, Johny Roy did the other kid a big favor - it is a cruel world and if that kid thinks he'll get by without ever being willing to defend himself, he'll either live in a very small and very safe box, or he'll be eaten alive.

[Electrophile]

My parents taught me to fight only when all other alternatives have been exhausted or don't apply. Obviously if some guy grabs me on the street and starts assaulting me, I'm not going to try and reason with him. I'm going to fight for my life. However nothing like that happened here.


If the two of us were in a bar let's say, and you're sitting on your stool drinking a beer and having a good time and suddenly I come up to you, get in your face and say "hey *******, parking lot...NOW." are you going to get up and follow me to the parking lot? Hell no, you'll probably tell me to shut the eff up and go back to your beer. If I then come back after you and knock you off the stool after you clearly indicated to me previous that you don't want to get into a fight, wouldn't that make me look like a **** or at least the female equivalent to a ****? Probably. Would you be at fault for not taking up my invitation to fight? No, I'd be at fault because I went after someone who wanted nothing to do with me.


I think that's the issue here. The other goalie wanted no part of a fight with Roy and Roy took it upon himself to create a fight where there had been none, and to me that makes him a ****. If you're going to fight with someone, as you yourself even pointed out, both parties should be willing participants. Where was this other goalie a willing participant?

[55fan]

I think Roy should be punished, but not by the courts. I hate it when the courts (of either the US or Canada) get involved.

Suspension? Yes. Legal wrangling? No.

Hopefully he gets kicked out of hockey and ends up as a cabbie in Buffalo.

[Wing Across The Pond]

In a way I both can and can't see why people are likening this to McCarty vs Lemieux when Lemieux may well have been up for a scrap if given the chance. This noname goalie actually said "no" unlike Lemieux, plus had done nothing to deserve it (to my knowledge anyway, I mean from his actions/reactions he doesnt seem like the kind of guy it do much to anger people). If someone in a bar asked you for a scrap and you said yeah then fair game, nothing would REALLY come of it apart from a fight that would break up when it was over or the cops arived and both would get the same. If in this same hypothetical bar fight you distinctly said "No" to this other guys proposal then he gets jail time for assault. Why because they're on the ice does it have to be different... if they both go at it then they get their penalties/fines/whatever, since noname said no then action SHOULD be taken. My opinion.

[Wing Across The Pond]

My parents taught me to fight only when all other alternatives have been exhausted or don't apply. Obviously if some guy grabs me on the street and starts assaulting me, I'm not going to try and reason with him. I'm going to fight for my life. However nothing like that happened here.


If the two of us were in a bar let's say, and you're sitting on your stool drinking a beer and having a good time and suddenly I come up to you, get in your face and say "hey *******, parking lot...NOW." are you going to get up and follow me to the parking lot? Hell no, you'll probably tell me to shut the eff up and go back to your beer. If I then come back after you and knock you off the stool after you clearly indicated to me previous that you don't want to get into a fight, wouldn't that make me look like a **** or at least the female equivalent to a ****? Probably. Would you be at fault for not taking up my invitation to fight? No, I'd be at fault because I went after someone who wanted nothing to do with me.


I think that's the issue here. The other goalie wanted no part of a fight with Roy and Roy took it upon himself to create a fight where there had been none, and to me that makes him a ****. If you're going to fight with someone, as you yourself even pointed out, both parties should be willing participants. Where was this other goalie a willing participant?

Great minds think alike... just realised as I had finished writing that I wrote pretty much the same thing

[HOCKEY MATTERS]

I think Roy should be punished, but not by the courts. I hate it when the courts (of either the US or Canada) get involved.

Suspension? Yes. Legal wrangling? No.

Hopefully he gets kicked out of hockey and ends up as a cabbie in Buffalo.

this.

[micah]

My parents taught me to fight only when all other alternatives have been exhausted or don't apply. Obviously if some guy grabs me on the street and starts assaulting me, I'm not going to try and reason with him. I'm going to fight for my life. However nothing like that happened here.


If the two of us were in a bar let's say, and you're sitting on your stool drinking a beer and having a good time and suddenly I come up to you, get in your face and say "hey *******, parking lot...NOW." are you going to get up and follow me to the parking lot? Hell no, you'll probably tell me to shut the eff up and go back to your beer. If I then come back after you and knock you off the stool after you clearly indicated to me previous that you don't want to get into a fight, wouldn't that make me look like a **** or at least the female equivalent to a ****? Probably. Would you be at fault for not taking up my invitation to fight? No, I'd be at fault because I went after someone who wanted nothing to do with me.


I think that's the issue here. The other goalie wanted no part of a fight with Roy and Roy took it upon himself to create a fight where there had been none, and to me that makes him a ****. If you're going to fight with someone, as you yourself even pointed out, both parties should be willing participants. Where was this other goalie a willing participant?

I totally agree that Roy was a ****, and this was a **** move. He deserves 2, 5, and a game, and probably a suspension. I agree with you that I wouldn't just automatically fight any random beligerant person who was looking for a scrap in a bar. That said, if some guy at a bar wanted to fight, you better believe I would b preparing myself to fight and be watching him like a hawk. There is no excuse for just standing still with your arms at your sides when someone for the last 30 seconds has made it clear that they want to fight you, and then they start charging at you. I can understand wanting to avoid a fight, but when you have someone charging at you with ill-intent, you oughta put your hands up and get ready, pacifist or not.

[E_S_A_D]

This is the kind of b.s. that Roy pulled that gives hockey fights a bad name. Nothing more here than a testosterone driven child that couldn't control his emotions.

[Inultus]

I can't say that I agree with charges being brought up so long after the fact.

Roy (father and son) are crazy. We've known that for a while. What hasn't been mentioned in this thread is that from another camera angle you can see Patrick egging his son on to fight. When your dad will probably beat you at home if you don't fight, I don't know how much I can blame the son.

Throw them both out of hockey, end of story.

[Konnan511]

I never, ever said I don't see anything wrong with John Roy's actions. I said I don't see what the big deal is, this sort of thing happens all the time, it always has. Fighting someone who isn't prepared to and willing to fight back, whether you're McCarty or John Roy, is wrong. I don't think it warrants police involvement though.

Errrr....yes you did. From the first of your posts in this thread: "Was the other goalie's last name "Ghandi"? Who on earth just stands there, gear on, hands at your sides when you have 30 seconds notice that another man wants to fight you? I can't see anything that Roy did that was terribly wrong here."

There have been numerous occasions when things that I don't agree with have happened. I was giving my oppinion, and I stand by it. There are sufficient penalties for fighting in hockey. No good comes from lawsuits or citations for simple on-ice fights.

That's good you stand by your opinion, because if you didn't, then no one else would. To call this a "simple on-ice fight" is completely asinine.

If you're parents raised you to ignore an angry guy coming at you with the clear intent of fighting you, your parents are dumb.

Why? My parents did raise me to do that exact thing, and I am now a third degree black-belt in Brazilian Jui-Jitsu thank you very much. I was raised not to fight under any circumstance, but I was taught to defend myself. I can garauntee my parents are substantially more intellectual than your parents, so by your standards if my parents are dumb, what does that make your parents. To bring family into this is completely uncalled for and I hope you never do it again as it only detracts from any argument you may have with your ad hominem.

Had the other goalie dropped his gloves and simply done his best to tie JR up and not get pummled, he probably wouldn't have been pummeled. When you stand still and let yourself get smoked...well, that's gonna hurt. You oughta at least *try* to protect yourself, right? IF that were the case, Johny Roy did the other kid a big favor - it is a cruel world and if that kid thinks he'll get by without ever being willing to defend himself, he'll either live in a very small and very safe box, or he'll be eaten alive.

Again, this is a huge fallacy! Using an A-Typical sample size to support your conclusion is not a good thing to do. Plus, this is a horrible analogy as well. It amazes me you can liken a hockey fight in Junior A to real life outside of hockey. I can cite hundreds of examples throughout history where a historical icon shied away from confrontations and didn't get eaten alive. Just because this goalie didn't defend himself on the ice, doesn't mean he shies away from moral injustices. Without going into much detail both my parents had a hard life growing up and they never once defended themselves in a physical fight and now guess what, they are more successful than 90%+ of any sampling of people you can find (monetary and quality of life).

I had zero intention of responding to this, but after you brought up my parents I really had no choice to do so. You better think twice before you know who you are getting into things with as this goes for Roy Jr. and yourself. Have a good day.

[teebo]

i cant believe people are in here even defending roy, what he did isnt fighting and isnt a part of hockey.

[micah]

Errrr....yes you did. From the first of your posts in this thread: "Was the other goalie's last name "Ghandi"? Who on earth just stands there, gear on, hands at your sides when you have 30 seconds notice that another man wants to fight you? I can't see anything that Roy did that was terribly wrong here."

Roy forced a hockey player who did not want to fight into a fight. That's wrong. Not terribly wrong. It's not nice. He deserves 2,5 and a game. Maybe a suspension.

I was raised not to fight under any circumstance, but I was taught to defend myself.

Hmmm. Isn't fighting back and example of defending oneself? Is it somehow morally superior when attacked on a hockey rink to absord blows than to fight back?

I can garauntee my parents are substantially more intellectual than your parents, so by your standards if my parents are dumb, what does that make your parents. To bring family into this is completely uncalled for and I hope you never do it again as it only detracts from any argument you may have with your ad hominem.

LOL "My parents are better than yours!"

My mom is a lowly RN. My dad was a Nuclear Engineer/Instructor/Engineering Director/Staff Physicist depending on where he was working at the time. His employers were the Deprtment of the Navy (including stints instructing at land-based reactors and the Naval surface Warfare Center), Massechusets Institute of Technology, Atomic Energy Committee and he sat on the board of or managed a couple of different commercial nuclear power generating facilities. He was a bright bulb with the maths and such. He made good money. Do you want to compare our Dads' W2s or our W2s? You brought earnings up, I'm willing to play along.

You better think twice before you know who you are getting into things with.

LOL! Is that an e-threat?

Edited by micah, 30 September 2009 - 03:59 PM.

[micah]

i cant believe people are in here even defending roy, what he did isnt fighting and isnt a part of hockey.

Who's defending him?

[LeftWinger]

As much as J. Roy should be held accountable for this, what about daddy? Here in this video he is clearly seen telling his son to go get the other goalie, and then after the game he is telling reporters that he waive his hand high in the air and told Johnnie "NO!" But clearly it is caight on video he is waiving him down the ice and shaking his head yes. Too bad I don't speak french or I could tell what was being said...

[E_S_A_D]

Please tell me Konnan511 that you're all schtick? Someone can't possibly be as funny on a forum as this.
Konnan, you mention that you're a third degree black belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu? Interesting... where do you practice? What's your origin discipline?

[E_S_A_D]

they are more successful than 90%+ of any sampling of people you can find (monetary and quality of life).

I had zero intention of responding to this, but after you brought up my parents I really had no choice to do so. You better think twice before you know who you are getting into things with

Edited by E_S_A_D, 30 September 2009 - 05:02 PM.

[cjm502]

Whats wrong with people?

[micah]

You better think twice beforte you roll your eyes at him. His dad is the King of Denmark!