Jimmy Howard

[DMAC 25 18]

Problem is, he's never changed in any game I've seen, whether they're streamed AHL games or NHL, warmups or play. His rebound control sucks. It sucked the first time I saw him play in the '06 season, and he hasn't improved a whit, despite an extra three years of AHL play.

I simply don't trust him.

thats your opinion, and i have mine and mine is to give him this year to be able to work a little with ozzy too. and if he doesnt get better then yes i agree trade, waive whatever just get rid of him but the guy played one game this year and it was preseason and people are already going against him

[Snazzy 0]

Oh man, I just noticed Datsyuk didn't score any goals in these meaningless exhibition games either, we should all write him off as a complete flop!

Kneeeeee-jerererk Kneeeeeee-jerrrrrk Knee-jerkkkkk

[Carman 387]

Oh man, I just noticed Datsyuk didn't score any goals in these meaningless exhibition games either, we should all write him off as a complete flop!

Kneeeeee-jerererk Kneeeeeee-jerrrrrk Knee-jerkkkkk

I don't see how it's a knee-jerk reaction to not have 100% confidence in a kid that was as highly touted as Howard and has been on display for 4 years and has yet to completely string together a meaningful amount of games as a starter?

That said I hope he can prove me wrong, it sure would be nice for the Wing's to actually develop a good goalie from the draft to a pro, we've kinda hit a brick wall with goalies for the past 15 years. And it is certainly possible for a goalie to turn a corner very quickly and become amazing practically over night, and Howard definitely has the tools.

[Broken 16 381]

So basically we have a gross over-reaction here about a young goalie who has potential but lacks the eye-opening NHL appearance to convince us.

Guess why the Wings haven't bailed on him yet? Because the reward outweighs the risk at this point. Expect Larsson to get his shot as soon as the risk is greater than the reward for Jimmy.

It's friggin' September-- Kenny's got 7 months to figure Jimmy out.

Edit: Plus, I'm not going to lie here-- we could use a goalie that forces the defense to get better.

Amen

[Snazzy 0]

That's it... it's official; Wings are not winning the cup ever again. They're done.

Hurry, tell Kenny it's over. Wings are fried. The word needs to be spread... pass it on!

Oh wait, Cleary was a "flop" too, wasn't he? Well then, maybe he should just keep floppin'. Man, I wish Kenny brings in more "flops", they seem to be real failures. :rollseyes:

[Carman 387]

Because saying that we don't have 100% confidence in one of our back-up goaltenders means we are going to go vandalize Holland's house and never watch hockey again.

[Broken 16 381]

Oh man, I just noticed Datsyuk didn't score any goals in these meaningless exhibition games either, we should all write him off as a complete flop!

Kneeeeee-jerererk Kneeeeeee-jerrrrrk Knee-jerkkkkk

Comparing a veteran with a huge trophy case to a prospect that has shown major consistency problems and is only in the NHL because the team is out of options doesn't really help your argument...

These aren't knee jerk reactions. Howard has been in the mix for a while now. If fans don't have confidence in him, then it's a result of Howard's (lack of) actions. The only reason he is up is because the Wings are out of options with him.

I, personally, don't think Howard is going to pull it off. I don't think he has the mental tools. On the upside though, as Drake pointed out, his presence should force the rest of the team to tighten up on D considerably.

We'll be in good shape by the time Kenny picks up a journeyman back-up at the trade deadline.

[Shaman 713]

I keep saying this and no one addresses this.... He is consistently inconsistent in the AHL, right now we don't have the starting goalie in the next who can let this team cut Howard's teeth slowly. If we had Hasek 10 years ago, or Mason (either) or Miller or Lundqvist or someone who is a bonafied starting goalie then this would be a different thread altogehter, but what if Osgood has another meltdown this season and he needs to take a few games to clear his mind do we have someone who can make 5 starts in a row and could steal a game or even keep the wings in a game that they would otherwise be out of? The answer is no, Howard at this point will be only in 1 game at a time and finish games we are being blown out in or we are up 5-1 in. I think this is just a bad situation for both the Wings and for Howard, if we had a top teir goalie or if we had a couple more years to send him down and bring him up then there wouldnt be so many questions, but right now hes either gunna have to put up or shut up. Until hes proven himself, I dont see why I should have any confidence in him, if the team, the coaches, and Holland do, great for them, but, that doesnt mean i wont cringe everytime I see him between the pipes.

[Snazzy 0]

Last time fans didn't have confidence in a goalie, he took the Wings to the finals and won the cup the year prior. I also remember fans that didn't have confidence in some 4th line nobody named Johan Franzen and some nobody named Danial Cleary who are probably the biggest clutch in the playoffs. Didn't some other team, can't remember who they are :wink: have some kid come in that was below subpar in the AHL and just totally kick ass in net?

Whoopieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Lets make more of these threads, we need 'em!

[Carman 387]

For every Johan Franzen, Semyon Varlamov and Daniel Cleary there are plenty more Patrick Stefan's, Marek Schwarz's and Jack Skille's. You are bringing up the exception not the rule. All I'm saying is Howard is running out of time and if he doesn't change his play he more then likely won't be here the whole year. Osgood isn't getting any younger, and he certainly has a couple good years left. With that said, I don't think Osgood is going to play 70 games and we will need a consistent back up.

[Broken 16 381]

Last time fans didn't have confidence in a goalie, he took the Wings to the finals and won the cup the year prior. I also remember fans that didn't have confidence in some 4th line nobody named Johan Franzen and some nobody named Danial Cleary who are probably the biggest clutch in the playoffs. Didn't some other team, can't remember who they are :wink: have some kid come in that was below subpar in the AHL and just totally kick ass in net?

Whoopieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Lets make more of these threads, we need 'em!

It's easy to list the exceptions and pretend they are the rule.

[DatsyukownzU13 1]

I really hope that Larsson gets some consideration if Jimmy continues to struggle. I always get the impression that Jimmy looks more nervous than he should be for being a professional athlete and has pretty poor rebound control for an NHL-caliber goalie. I still want to see him get some chances, but if he continues to dissapoint Larsson should get a fair shot at the backup job.

[LeftWinger 4,958]

I keep saying this and no one addresses this.... He is consistently inconsistent in the AHL, right now we don't have the starting goalie in the next who can let this team cut Howard's teeth slowly. If we had Hasek 10 years ago, or Mason (either) or Miller or Lundqvist or someone who is a bonafied starting goalie then this would be a different thread altogehter, but what if Osgood has another meltdown this season and he needs to take a few games to clear his mind do we have someone who can make 5 starts in a row and could steal a game or even keep the wings in a game that they would otherwise be out of? The answer is no, Howard at this point will be only in 1 game at a time and finish games we are being blown out in or we are up 5-1 in. I think this is just a bad situation for both the Wings and for Howard, if we had a top teir goalie or if we had a couple more years to send him down and bring him up then there wouldnt be so many questions, but right now hes either gunna have to put up or shut up. Until hes proven himself, I dont see why I should have any confidence in him, if the team, the coaches, and Holland do, great for them, but, that doesnt mean i wont cringe everytime I see him between the pipes.

because haven't you heard? Howard wears a Winged Wheel now so everyone HAS to like him and tout him as the next one to take us to the Cup! All Hail anyone who wears a Wings sweater! They must be Gods of Hockey! (well except of Crosby, he's THE God of Hockey, right Bylsma?)

[BeeRYCE 2]

I've been on this site for over 4 years now and since I stumbled upon this site we were all raving about how Howard was going to be some kind of phenom... I'm really losing my patience here, I know it takes a while for a goalie to fully develop, but god damn, DEVELOP ALREADY.

[Mickeyisms Rule! 0]

Watching the game right now and if people are counting on Larsson to be ready this year then they may want to take a step back. Not the best glove hand being displayed.

[gcom007 1,465]

Watching the game right now and if people are counting on Larsson to be ready this year then they may want to take a step back. Not the best glove hand being displayed.

I think Osgood's still got 3-4 solid years left in his tank. That said, I think we should've cut our losses with Howard and gone with the guy who proved himself last year to pull his weight at the NHL level. Of course, I'm speaking of Ty Conklin. He was a perfect combination for Osgood because he works hard to play like a starter but doesn't bring the drama or typical goalie-headcase issues that guys like Legace have had in the past. Even if Howard does alright, I still think we would've been better off with Conklin. But oh well...here's hoping it works out.

[redwingcapt 52]

are you people kidding me. he was an all star in the AHL, All American in College, this i preseason. if osgood hd a bad game in the preseaon would you ll pms,NO!! plus he played fine, his fundamentals were good and speed and angles looked fine, thats what preseason is for. two of the 3 goals were not his falut, deflections, you know what those re people, redirections of the puck. haha so u guys givee up on him, no, he will be here for awhile, like it or not, he is a great kkid, hasnt lost confidnce yet after all these years. just think how good he will be when he gains all his confidence back, itll be like he was in the ahl his first year pro = allstar, record breakng rookie campaign for the ahl. so put another tampon in and sit down and shut up. he is the backup man and the plan for the future GO WINGS

[LidsFan 68]

I really wish that the Wings had kept Conklin. I think that he was a perfect fit for the team. I am hoping that Howard does well, but if he doesn't maybe St. Louis will trade Conklin for Howard and Meech. I know that it would never happen, but I can dream can't I?

[BeeRYCE 2]

are you people kidding me. he was an all star in the AHL, All American in College, this i preseason. if osgood hd a bad game in the preseaon would you ll pms,NO!! plus he played fine, his fundamentals were good and speed and angles looked fine, thats what preseason is for. two of the 3 goals were not his falut, deflections, you know what those re people, redirections of the puck. haha so u guys givee up on him, no, he will be here for awhile, like it or not, he is a great kkid, hasnt lost confidnce yet after all these years. just think how good he will be when he gains all his confidence back, itll be like he was in the ahl his first year pro = allstar, record breakng rookie campaign for the ahl. so put another tampon in and sit down and shut up. he is the backup man and the plan for the future GO WINGS

List of Hobey Baker winners (best yearly college players as per Wikipedia):

1981 Neal Broten center University of Minnesota

1982 George McPhee left wing Bowling Green State University

1983 Mark Fusco defense Harvard University

1984 Tom Kurvers defense University of Minnesota Duluth

1985 Bill Watson right wing University of Minnesota Duluth

1986 Scott Fusco center Harvard University

1987 Tony Hrkac center University of North Dakota

1988 Robb Stauber goaltender University of Minnesota

1989 Lane MacDonald left wing Harvard University

1990 Kip Miller center Michigan State University

1991 David Emma center Boston College

1992 Scott Pellerin left wing University of Maine

1993 Paul Kariya left wing University of Maine

1994 Chris Marinucci left wing University of Minnesota Duluth

1995 Brian Holzinger center Bowling Green State University

1996 Brian Bonin center University of Minnesota

1997 Brendan Morrison center University of Michigan

1998 Chris Drury left wing Boston University

1999 Jason Krog center University of New Hampshire

2000 Mike Mottau defense Boston College

2001 Ryan Miller goaltender Michigan State University

2002 Jordan Leopold defense University of Minnesota

2003 Peter Sejna left wing Colorado College

2004 Junior Lessard right wing University of Minnesota Duluth

2005 Marty Sertich center Colorado College

2006 Matt Carle defense University of Denver

2007 Ryan Duncan left wing University of North Dakota

2008 Kevin Porter center University of Michigan

2009 Matt Gilroy defense Boston University

My point being, college standouts don't necessarily always stand out in the NHL... The only standouts I see are Kariya, Miller, Drury, and Broten. I wouldn't bring him up as being an "all american in college" as an argue point.

[gcom007 1,465]

are you people kidding me. he was an all star in the AHL, All American in College, this i preseason. if osgood hd a bad game in the preseaon would you ll pms,NO!! plus he played fine, his fundamentals were good and speed and angles looked fine, thats what preseason is for. two of the 3 goals were not his falut, deflections, you know what those re people, redirections of the puck. haha so u guys givee up on him, no, he will be here for awhile, like it or not, he is a great kkid, hasnt lost confidnce yet after all these years. just think how good he will be when he gains all his confidence back, itll be like he was in the ahl his first year pro = allstar, record breakng rookie campaign for the ahl. so put another tampon in and sit down and shut up. he is the backup man and the plan for the future GO WINGS

I actually have no issue with his pre-season play. I don't hold those goals against him in the Buffalo game. It's just been a long and winding road with this guy where expectations keep getting lower and lower and still the only way he winds up on the team is because he's out of minor league options and they've invested too much time into him not to give him a chance. I outlined pretty clearly in the page before that the Osgood comparisons in any way, shape or form are absurd. Again, a lot of people are just being typical slappy haters, but there's more than a few people who are simply concerned for good reason.

Hell, the management is concerned! Do they seem thrilled with the fact that Howard's the backup? No. Has Babcock inferred that Conklin would win the backup role if he stuck around? Yes. The Jimmy Howard experiment thus far has not gone at all how the Wings would've wanted it. No one in management has expressed that they're convinced he's going to be able to get the job done. No one has said that he's proven himself ready in the minors and his few NHL games. They've said again and again, this is his last chance because they're out of any other options so he has to FINALLY prove that he's ready and able to play in the NHL.

What about that makes anyone feel positive about the guy right now???

I'm not saying that he shouldn't get his shot, but I'm certainly not about to get my hopes up either.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Because saying that we don't have 100% confidence in one of our back-up goaltenders means we are going to go vandalize Holland's house and never watch hockey again.

Comparing a veteran with a huge trophy case to a prospect that has shown major consistency problems and is only in the NHL because the team is out of options doesn't really help your argument...

These aren't knee jerk reactions. Howard has been in the mix for a while now. If fans don't have confidence in him, then it's a result of Howard's (lack of) actions. The only reason he is up is because the Wings are out of options with him.

I, personally, don't think Howard is going to pull it off. I don't think he has the mental tools. On the upside though, as Drake pointed out, his presence should force the rest of the team to tighten up on D considerably.

We'll be in good shape by the time Kenny picks up a journeyman back-up at the trade deadline.

Concerned? Yes. Fair and legit.

Giving him the shaft before he's even given a fair shake, as planned, like the original poster and some other wants? Ridiculous and pre-mature.

[Snazzy 0]

Jimmy Howard made us lose another important exhibition game tonight against the Rangers. Dammit, dammit all to hell! We're not winning the cup. Hurry, call Kenny and tell him he's doing it all wrong.

Kenny should call Felix Potvin, I'm sure he'd come here for $4 million a year plus bonuses. Get-er-done Kenny!

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Well, Osgood gave the defense every reason to be better last year and it didn't help much...

The difference there is that last year we scored the most goals in the NHL. This season the defense won't get the bailing out it got last season. If the goalie is bad and the defense is bad we'll lose far far far more often this season.

And while I think it's worth noting that he hasn't been shipped off, at the same time, it's also worth noting that he's struggled to impress them enough to think he's ready for awhile now. The expectations have gotten lower and lower each year. At first he was the next great home-grown Wings goalie. Then he was likely to be a solid NHL goalie. Then we think he can still be an NHL goalie. And then they think he can still be an NHL backup. Now it's more along the lines of we hope he can be an NHL backup.

I think that's got more to do with how the fans expectations have changed, not what the Wings think. I'm sure Holland is disappointed that Jimmy didn't make the next big leap after his all-star season in the AHL, but to say that expectations have shifted from "NHL starter" to "maybe an NHL backup" is an exaggeration. If his stock was falling that quickly they'd have bailed on him.

The fact remains that Jimmy has a goalie's frame, a ton of talent, great reflexes and good form. His rebound control has never been brilliant, but that's something that can be repaired with more focused coaching (not that he hasn't received enough coaching before now). He's very inconsistent, which is very worrying, but so are 95% of the young goalies that come into the NHL. All they can do is wait and give him a shot before bailing on him. This is a similar situation to Quincey, except Quincey was much lower on the prospect depth chart than Jimmy is. At no point was Quincey even among the top five prospects in the organization, but Jimmy's been in the top 3 for 4 or 5 years now.

I'm all for giving him his fair shot and staying open minded, and I certainly agree some are jumping off the deep end, but this is a far cry different than people doubting Osgood last year. Osgood's proven a great deal in his long NHL career. He's won Cups and a LOT of games. Howard hasn't even proven much in his AHL career and if anything has done more to cause management to question him than have confidence in him. It's tough to have a lot of faith in this guy when management has lowered the bar every year and he's still struggled to really grab hold of a slot. Even this year, if not for being out of minor league options, do you honestly think he would outplay Conklin if they were competing for the backup role?

Again, I'm not trying to jump off the deep end here, but I think both sides are a little off on this issue. Those hyping up how horrible this will be need to chill for a bit, but those saying we have no idea, and we don't need a great goalie are ignoring reality and not giving Osgood his due as a top NHL goalie. Don't kid yourself for a second. "Doesn't need to be great" like Legace? I remember that going really well. It's not that we need Roy/Brodeur/Hasek-legendary status goalies to win, but make no mistake, Osgood has absolutely been great when it matters most for a long, long time in this league.

Chris Osgood was an NHL All-Star and leading candidate for a Vezina Trophy in 1995/96 at the age of 23. Jimmy Howard is cracking the Red Wing lineup as a backup basically because they're out of minor league options for him at the age of 25.

There's a big, big, big difference between Chris Osgood and Jimmy Howard.

I never said they were the same animal, just that tons of good NHL goalies stated out inconsistent and rough.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I really hope that Larsson gets some consideration if Jimmy continues to struggle. I always get the impression that Jimmy looks more nervous than he should be for being a professional athlete and has pretty poor rebound control for an NHL-caliber goalie. I still want to see him get some chances, but if he continues to dissapoint Larsson should get a fair shot at the backup job.

Larsson will most definitely get some consideration if Jimmy continues to struggle. He's excelled at every level he's played and adjusted to the AHL amazingly quickly.

[alyssa 1]

I really wish that the Wings had kept Conklin. I think that he was a perfect fit for the team. I am hoping that Howard does well, but if he doesn't maybe St. Louis will trade Conklin for Howard and Meech. I know that it would never happen, but I can dream can't I?

Detroit didn't have the price tag Conklin deserved.

Also Holland didn't have any options left with Howard, considering his minor-league eligibility is now gone.