Lebda and Meech both suck

[Jake Ryan 1]

OMG! Our #7 and #8 Defencemen aren't NHL caliber!!! OMG!!

Seriously, get some perspective. If/When Lilja gets back, one of Meech/Lebda will be traded/waived and the other will be a healthy scratch. There is a reason why they are 7 and 8 on the depth chart.

Welcome to the world of having a talented team in the cap era.

And for the record, and just to annoy certain people, Lebda has had 2 strong post-seasons on the bounce.

I thought so, too. I don't think Lebda is too much of a problem. I think it has more to do with having small, old forwards who have lost a lot of the endurance they once had. We get worn down as the game goes on, people. That didn't use to happen.

[Guest Crymson]

Playoffs? You want to talk about the playoffs? Heghhhhhhh. Playoffs. Playoffs? You're talking about the playoffs? Playoffs?

You kidding me?

We talkin' 'bout PRACTICE!

[Jake Ryan 1]

You kidding me?

We talkin' 'bout PRACTICE!

Practice? We talkin' about Practice? Practice! We're not talkin' about games. We're talkin about Practice!

[Guest Crymson]

I didnt think Quincey played enough to judge him. Even if everything you say is true,the fact of the matter is they made the wrong choice. We praise management for all the great moves theyve made but they screwed this one up.

Quincey, not Meech, got the nod for most of the '07 playoffs, and Quincey . Aside from that, he was judged on his GR play in just the way that Meech was. He was found wanting. How much other time would you have given him? Yeesh.

The management screwed it up? Well, how would you have had them judge it? He and Meech were given opportunities to prove themselves, Quincey perhaps more so than Meech; Meech performed better. Would you have had Holland and Co. go against the data? That would seem rather silly, quite like performing a comparative performance-test science experiment and then going with the specimen that performed worse in the trials.

Your words seem to indicate that you resent the amount of praise that the front office gets, that you feel they do not deserve such. Why? Also, note that even if they had "screwed this one up"---which, as I noted above, I question---we're dealing with a 5th/6th D-man spot here, which is not a catastrophe---though you make it seem as such---and the track record of that front office is almost indisputably the best of the past decade.

[chrisdetroit 189]

Not hurting the team as much as Holmstrom, but close.

And what is that based on? They've played 2 games and Homer has 1 goal and 0 asssists. His +/- is even.

How exaclty is he hurting the team?

[eva unit zero 271]

Hindsights is a WONDERFUL tool, isn't it? Should we all blame Holland for waiving him, when in fact pretty much none of us---or anyone else---saw anything of him that indicated any notable ability?

I'll remind you, and anyone else who reads this post, that of the defensemen who were considered "potential waiver material" on this board at that time, I ranked them in this order in terms of who we should be keeping:

1. Quincey

2. Lilja

3. Meech

4. Lebda

Seems pretty accurate for then and now.

[up2here 41]

Quincey, not Meech, got the nod for most of the '07 playoffs, and Quincey . Aside from that, he was judged on his GR play in just the way that Meech was. He was found wanting. How much other time would you have given him? Yeesh.

The management screwed it up? Well, how would you have had them judge it? He and Meech were given opportunities to prove themselves, Quincey perhaps more so than Meech; Meech performed better. Would you have had Holland and Co. go against the data? That would seem rather silly, quite like performing a comparative performance-test science experiment and then going with the specimen that performed worse in the trials.

Your words seem to indicate that you resent the amount of praise that the front office gets, that you feel they do not deserve such. Why? Also, note that even if they had "screwed this one up"---which, as I noted above, I question---we're dealing with a 5th/6th D-man spot here, which is not a catastrophe---though you make it seem as such---and the track record of that front office is almost indisputably the best of the past decade.

I would never resent the amount of praise management get, they have done a great job working with the cap and drafting low. All I am saying is that we shouldnt be afraid to criticize them when they do make a mistake which it seems like a lot people here are. Letting Quincey go for nothing was a mistake. You can argue it was a minor mistake or that they couldnt have done it any other way but that doesnt change it.

[uk_redwing 495]

This is a stupid thread.

[Guest Crymson]

I would never resent the amount of praise management get, they have done a great job working with the cap and drafting low. All I am saying is that we shouldnt be afraid to criticize them when they do make a mistake which it seems like a lot people here are. Letting Quincey go for nothing was a mistake. You can argue it was a minor mistake or that they couldnt have done it any other way but that doesnt change it.

In what way could it possibly have been foreseen as a mistake?

[up2here 41]

In what way could it possibly have been foreseen as a mistake?

That it wasnt forseen is a mistake. They failed to properly project Quinceys skills, it happens. The front office may be the best in hockey but theyre not perfect.

[Guest Crymson]

That it wasnt forseen is a mistake. They failed to properly project Quinceys skills, it happens. The front office may be the best in hockey but theyre not perfect.

Quincey was given opportunities to show his skills, and he failed to produce.

[egroen 384]

Quincey was given opportunities to show his skills, and he failed to produce.

He performed well in the '07 playoffs, well enough for the wings to sign him, well enough for the Kings to claim him and well enough for many fans to rate him higher than both Lebda and Meech. His skillset was also unique from Lebda and Meech -- at that price, production is not necessary, just decent defense.

It was a definite mistake on Holland's part, but as has been said, that's pretty sweet if *that* is is one of his worst mistakes.

Edited October 5, 2009 by egroen

[Miss Wing Queen 154]

I feel that there is a hint of a chance that Lebda could improve and play more consistently like he performed in the playoffs, especially against Chicago. But to me, it seems as if he just lacks the motivation to push himself. He says he knows what role he is asked to play as a 3rd line defenseman, but I think he uses that more as an excuse to get away with a bare minimum performance for most of the season except in games that really matter to him (i.e. the Winter Classic and the Chicago series).

Why? I don't know. If it's money, everyone has to make their way up through the system and prove that they are worth more money throughout their contract by continually improving their game and proving to Babcock and Holland that the position is theirs to take and keep. If it's being on the 3rd line and less ice time, he hasn't shown enough to be considered for the 1st let alone the 2nd line. If it's just that he doesn't care except when his is in his hometown, then get off the team because our team has higher standards than that.

I think it's sad because I think the potential is there, but it's buried under a bad work ethic, misguided presence on the ice (joining in on rushes during every shift that result in horrible turnovers and goals against), and a lack of motivation to be more than just average or worse. This is the Red Wings. After four years, he should be well acquainted with their high expectations of each and every player to contribute all they have every single night. Unfortunately, there are so many other players dying to have his spot who would run with it and make the most of the opportunity given to them to be part of the Red Wings. But Lebda, who knows. It's just disappointing that our defense has to suffer for it.

[Guest Crymson]

He performed well in the '07 playoffs, well enough for the wings to sign him, well enough for the Kings to claim him and well enough for many fans to rate him higher than both Lebda and Meech. His skillset was also unique from Lebda and Meech -- at that price, production is not necessary, just decent defense.

It was a definite mistake on Holland's part, but as has been said, that's pretty sweet if *that* is is one of his worst mistakes.

I was of the opinion that he was below average during the '07 playoffs. He was signed the next year, sure---but to play in Grand Rapids. I doubt his performance in the playoffs had anything to do with that. He did not play himself onto a roster spot with the Wings.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

This is a stupid thread.

I agree.

The OP was obviously trolling and trying to start a flame war.

Jedi, do something about him, please!!

[uk_redwing 495]

I agree.

The OP was obviously trolling and trying to start a flame war.

Jedi, do something about him, please!!

I agree. Bastard OP. We dont need types like him around here.

[chrisdetroit 189]

I agree. Bastard OP. We dont need types like him around here.

Any thread that is titled "so and so sucks" is pretty much guaranteed to be a stupid thread.

[Holmstrom96 347]

Please lecture me on how to post on a forum. Ive only been here 4 years as opposed to your mighty 10 months of experience.

(This isnt a serious thread. I dont do serious.)

Doesn't matter, your thread still sucks. It lacks substance. You're just saying something harsh\controversial to get people to argue.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Doesn't matter, your thread still sucks. It lacks substance. You're just saying something harsh\controversial to get people to argue.

Do you really need proof for why Lebda and Meech suck? Just watch the damn games and you'll see the proof.

[tdinc 45]

Agree, Down with Lebda

Meech....well lets just say hes better then him

[uk_redwing 495]

Doesn't matter, your thread still sucks. It lacks substance. You're just saying something harsh\controversial to get people to argue.

Im not the one forcing people to argue...they do it automatically. I could have said "duck is a tasty meat" and you'd end up with a 19 page enforcer debate.

I miss that 30 something page enforcer thread. BRING IT BACK!!

[xBrave_Heartx 0]

Honestly Lebda wouldn't suck if we had an enforcer to protect him.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Just to reiterate again, I suck. *shrugs*

And hopefully Lebda gets it together after 2 subpar games. Struggled a good bit last year as well, but for the most part can't complain too much about is postseason play. Nothing amazing, but far from terrible there either overall.

I hope for a Lilja-Ericcson combo if Lilja can get back soon but Lebda's shown potential, just terribly incosistent.

[Holmstrom96 347]

Im not the one forcing people to argue...they do it automatically. I could have said "duck is a tasty meat" and you'd end up with a 19 page enforcer debate.

LOL, I can't argue with you there.

[ComradeWasabi 109]

LOL, I can't argue with you there.

TouchÉ