rage 24 Report post Posted October 6, 2009 EVERY time Helm hit the ice in the playoffs, the fans went nuts. Do you think they were cheering just because they liked the name "Helm"? Come on. The guy is electric. Why is it so hard to fathom putting a speedster on the first line? Who cares if he doesn't have the hands of Shanahan or Zetterberg. He doesn't have to have the hands of Shanahan or Zetterberg. He just needs to open up room for Datsyuk and Franzen. How do you open up room for playmakers and snipers? THINK. HOW DO YOU OPEN UP ROOM FOR PLAYMAKERS AND SNIPERS? With a 36 year old who is one of the slowest skaters in the league and doesn't have the skill to dig pucks out of the corner or the skill to pass them tape to tape through defenders if he could dig the puck out? Or with a speedster who's a threat to hit a home run every time he's on the ice? (and if you don't believe Helm can bury his breakaways, just watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soF8M9E-Az8) I can't believe people have such a hard time seeing how Darren Helm could fit in with Datsyuk and Franzen. Oh I don't doubt that this sounds just fantastic in your head. I just don't see how you can put Helm on the 1st over Zetterberg, Bertuzzi, Flip, Cleary. Helm was great in the playoffs of course! That doesn't mean he is ready for 1st line playing time! Come on now! He's a 3rd liner at this point in his career! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buppy 1,720 Report post Posted October 6, 2009 ...Holmstrom has in the past, which is why he plays there. Holmstrom is no longer a first line player, ... Not totally directed towards you, but where exactly is this idea coming from? He has been hurt the past two years, but while he's been in the lineup he's been as good as he's ever been...so is it just the one 19 game stretch from last year's playoffs? Personally, I think some people are vastly over-rating how good he used to be; judging a decline from a height he was never at in the first place. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FedorovMan91 1 Report post Posted October 6, 2009 I do not think Helm is the first line player. Most likely, until the end of Draper and Maltby's career, Helm is supposed to be on the 3rd liner. He performed great during last year's playoff but what he was mainly doing overall was bring up the energy to the team; such as, checking hard, physical play, and quick movement. Other than that, he is not a player who should be on the first line, which has to involve much scoring ability. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FedorovMan91 1 Report post Posted October 6, 2009 Not totally directed towards you, but where exactly is this idea coming from? He has been hurt the past two years, but while he's been in the lineup he's been as good as he's ever been...so is it just the one 19 game stretch from last year's playoffs? Personally, I think some people are vastly over-rating how good he used to be; judging a decline from a height he was never at in the first place. I don't think the number really matters at this point. When we won the cup in 08 playoff, Homer was playing hard on the back of the net and keeping the puck pretty good. However, at this point, I think people doubt Homer's ability to be on the irst line due to his slowness and decreased stats of re-directed goals. Besides, not only last year but into only two games, he does not look strong to keep the puck around the net. He is still valuable to screen goalies but it is indisputable Homer's ability look extremely even worse than what he had in previous years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topsideplaya 0 Report post Posted October 6, 2009 zetterberg-datsyuk-cleary= the twins play with a faster talented and better defensive player than holmstrom leino-filppula-franzen= filppula and franzen have always had good chemistry and filp has also showed that with leino bertuzzi-helm-williams=bertuzzi is not a top 6 player. Helm has great speed, stick handling and solid defensively. Williams is average on D but good with the puck and has a decent shot. maltby-draper-holmstrom=only way to limit homers minutes without scratching him and keep him for the PP. These lines are whe Helm comes back and we'll most likely send Abby down. My main concern is getting Ericsson a decent partner so we dont stunt his growth. Holland needs to get on the phone with other teams looking for a cheap stay at home defenseman who can kill penalties on that 2nd unit. Lilja isn't coming back and if he does who is to say that he can regain form? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topsideplaya 0 Report post Posted October 6, 2009 zetterberg-datsyuk-cleary= the twins play with a faster talented and better defensive player than holmstrom leino-filppula-franzen= filppula and franzen have always had good chemistry and filp has also showed that with leino bertuzzi-helm-williams=bertuzzi is not a top 6 player. Helm has great speed, stick handling and solid defensively. Williams is average on D but good with the puck and has a decent shot. maltby-draper-holmstrom=only way to limit homers minutes without scratching him and keep him for the PP. These lines are whe Helm comes back and we'll most likely send Abby down. My main concern is getting Ericsson a decent partner so we dont stunt his growth. Holland needs to get on the phone with other teams looking for a cheap stay at home defenseman who can kill penalties on that 2nd unit. Lilja isn't coming back and if he does who is to say that he can regain form? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Winged_Wheeler 3 Report post Posted October 6, 2009 How about this, Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Holmstrom The line that won us the Cup in 2008. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted October 6, 2009 I wouldnt mind trying Bertuzzi with Datsyuk and Franzen, if he hustles and hits, otherwise he's no good. Another option IMO is Filpulla as a winger, I know he's a natural center, but in the past when Babs experimented with the lines, I thought they looked fine together. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rage 24 Report post Posted October 6, 2009 I wouldnt mind trying Bertuzzi with Datsyuk and Franzen, if he hustles and hits, otherwise he's no good. Another option IMO is Filpulla as a winger, I know he's a natural center, but in the past when Babs experimented with the lines, I thought they looked fine together. Yeah, that's why I mentioned him twice already. Flip and Dats seemed to gel together! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buppy 1,720 Report post Posted October 6, 2009 I don't think the number really matters at this point. When we won the cup in 08 playoff, Homer was playing hard on the back of the net and keeping the puck pretty good. However, at this point, I think people doubt Homer's ability to be on the irst line due to his slowness and decreased stats of re-directed goals. Besides, not only last year but into only two games, he does not look strong to keep the puck around the net. He is still valuable to screen goalies but it is indisputable Homer's ability look extremely even worse than what he had in previous years. That's just it...there are no 'decreased stats', at least not significantly. 08 playoffs he had 4g, 8a in 21 games. Better than last year, but so were a lot of players. If you look at anything other than the most recent playoff run, his numbers are very close to the best he's ever done. Beyond the numbers, I think people have fooled themselves into thinking Homer used to be some all-star caliber player, when in fact he's never been more than the rather slow, defensively weak, one-dimentional role player that he still is. His board work and passing have always been and still are average. He has only ever done one thing very well, it just happens that it's something that compliments the playstyle of our top lines very well. And by any metric you can think of, he still does that one thing very well, when he's healthy. And when he's not healthy, who cares, since he's out of the lineup anyway and his detractors get their wish for someone new in his spot... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jake Ryan 1 Report post Posted October 6, 2009 That's just it...there are no 'decreased stats', at least not significantly. 08 playoffs he had 4g, 8a in 21 games. Better than last year, but so were a lot of players. If you look at anything other than the most recent playoff run, his numbers are very close to the best he's ever done. Beyond the numbers, I think people have fooled themselves into thinking Homer used to be some all-star caliber player, when in fact he's never been more than the rather slow, defensively weak, one-dimentional role player that he still is. His board work and passing have always been and still are average. He has only ever done one thing very well, it just happens that it's something that compliments the playstyle of our top lines very well. And by any metric you can think of, he still does that one thing very well, when he's healthy. And when he's not healthy, who cares, since he's out of the lineup anyway and his detractors get their wish for someone new in his spot... The problem is that he's NOT out of the line-up when he's not healthy, apparently. (See last year's cup loss) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titanium2 867 Report post Posted October 6, 2009 Speaking of ex partners, apparently Samuelsson, by Red Wings fans definition, f'd it up big time against VAN tonight. Canucks were down by a goal with about 3-4 minutes left I'm guessing. Sammy takes a questionable penalty and the Jackets score on the PP and the Canucks start the season 0-3. Wings forums would have had threads just bashing Sammy left and right for that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FedorovMan91 1 Report post Posted October 6, 2009 That's just it...there are no 'decreased stats', at least not significantly. 08 playoffs he had 4g, 8a in 21 games. Better than last year, but so were a lot of players. If you look at anything other than the most recent playoff run, his numbers are very close to the best he's ever done. No one here is saying Holmstrom has been somewhat great. It would be ridiculous if he is selected to NHL all stars. Except for few people who think every player who wears the Wings jersey have the same skill level other teams' top players have, everyone knows he is just a worth of 2nd liner or 3rd liner. In fact, what he has to do in this team is screening goalies and re-directing the puck into the net. That is what has plaed him in the first liner in the Wings for last few seasons. I am not criticizing Holstrom's singular play or accuse him for the lost last year and these two games into the season. Combine the first two games with the last season, how many people do you think can say "wow, Holmstrom really put the puck into the net by his own valuable skill". I cannot think many times compared to the 07-08 season. The first line is there to lead your scoring. What I am saying is Holmstrom is not capable anymore being the first liner in the Wings because his notable re-directing skill has been almost faded away since he got an injury last year Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AtomicPunk 296 Report post Posted October 6, 2009 Speaking of ex partners, apparently Samuelsson, by Red Wings fans definition, f'd it up big time against VAN tonight. Canucks were down by a goal with about 3-4 minutes left I'm guessing. Sammy takes a questionable penalty and the Jackets score on the PP and the Canucks start the season 0-3. Wings forums would have had threads just bashing Sammy left and right for that. I watched that game (vs. Columbus, BTW) just to see Sammy in a Vancouver uniform, and to see how he looked playing with other players. Ryan Kesler? He left here to play on a 3rd line with Ryan Kesler? Took almost the whole first period until I even noticed him, and then he ran a guy at the blue line and I went....hmm....there he is. Did not look like anything special. Then again, I had that opinion of him here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drake_Marcus 890 Report post Posted October 6, 2009 (edited) as i saw them play, i thought if they only had helm on their line, they would just be lethal, a hard working guy with incredible speed, good checking and soft hands. imo he would be the perfect fit. the hard working guy who wins the battles and gets the pucks to the magicians and occasionally chips one in by himself after perfect feeds from pasha If Helm's got soft hands I'm a first round draft pick. Edit: In other words-- don't try to plug a grinder/energy/defensive guy into a scorer's role. Edited October 6, 2009 by Drake_Marcus Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drake_Marcus 890 Report post Posted October 6, 2009 How about this, Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Holmstrom The line that won us the Cup in 2008. It's amazing that after going home empty handed last year with D and Z split Babs is still clinging to the split euro twin fantasy. Just stick with what worked in 08 please. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Finnish Wing 110 Report post Posted October 6, 2009 Man... Jake Ryan is one of these guys who really think Helm is consistently that good how he seemed last poffs. It's strange illusion: when young player gets added to the lineup and he plays decently everyone is like "OMG! HE'S THE NEXT SUPERSTAR!". It's just normal. But you will see this season that Helm is just a normal 3rd or 4th line player. Decent one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jake Ryan 1 Report post Posted October 6, 2009 Man... Jake Ryan is one of these guys who really think Helm is consistently that good how he seemed last poffs. It's strange illusion: when young player gets added to the lineup and he plays decently everyone is like "OMG! HE'S THE NEXT SUPERSTAR!". It's just normal. But you will see this season that Helm is just a normal 3rd or 4th line player. Decent one. As long as Babcock keeps him on the 4th line with scrub wingers (AKA Maltby and Holmstrom), then Helm will be a good 4th liner. If Babcock pulls his head out and puts Helm with Datsyuk, we might see Helm blossum into a 30 goal/80 point player. The tools are there for Helm to do that. ACG thinks Helm doesn't have any hands. I've seen nothing that would support that statement. He's put away most of his breakaways and has scored goals when he's gotten chances. Helm is a good player, but could be a great player if they gave him a chance to play with great players. If Zetterberg and Datsyuk can make Holmstrom a 25 goal/60 point guy, what do you think they can do with Helm? I'd like to find out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Finnish Wing 110 Report post Posted October 6, 2009 As long as Babcock keeps him on the 4th line with scrub wingers (AKA Maltby and Holmstrom), then Helm will be a good 4th liner. If Babcock pulls his head out and puts Helm with Datsyuk, we might see Helm blossum into a 30 goal/80 point player. The tools are there for Helm to do that. ACG thinks Helm doesn't have any hands. I've seen nothing that would support that statement. He's put away most of his breakaways and has scored goals when he's gotten chances. Helm is a good player, but could be a great player if they gave him a chance to play with great players. If Zetterberg and Datsyuk can make Holmstrom a 25 goal/60 point guy, what do you think they can do with Helm? I'd like to find out. Okay, now you finally proved that there's no chance to help you anymore. We lost this one... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titanium2 867 Report post Posted October 6, 2009 Okay, now you finally proved that there's no chance to help you anymore. We lost this one... Charging... Clear! *SHOCK* No pulse. Charging to 300... Clear! *SHOCK* Nothing. Finnish Wing, call time of death. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lets go pavel 2 Report post Posted October 6, 2009 The problem is that he's NOT out of the line-up when he's not healthy, apparently. (See last year's cup loss) If we had scratched everyone that wasn't healthy during last year's finals Pittsburgh would have been playing Grand Rapids for the Cup. Homer sat a good chunk of last year because he was injured. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heroes of Hockeytown 694 Report post Posted October 6, 2009 we might see Helm blossum into a 30 goal/80 point player. I try not to take what Ninety-Sux says too seriously, but holy freaking moly, you best be trollin'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dropkickshanahans 463 Report post Posted October 6, 2009 I try not to take what Ninety-Sux says too seriously, but holy freaking moly, you best be trollin'. hahaha. maybe if he was talking about Leino then 30/80 wouldn't sound as bad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jake Ryan 1 Report post Posted October 7, 2009 hahaha. maybe if he was talking about Leino then 30/80 wouldn't sound as bad. Yah, cause only Leino can do that. NO player other than Brett Hull can score 80 points on a line with Zetterberg and Datsyuk. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AtomicPunk 296 Report post Posted October 7, 2009 He's SERIOUS. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
